What is the senior coach responsible for?

[nut]

31 mate, now i understand why you are so angry

Not angry.... Ive just seen it all before. False hopes built on false dawns... Frawely topping up after we thought the job was done.... TW coming out and saying we were locked and loaded at the start 2009.... and now this football department sitting on their hands thinking all we needed was a back up ruckman during the off season.... let 2 players with pace go and didnt have a plan to replace them and riding on the back of the kids natural improvement....

An Administration that was happy to sign up a coach for another three seasons on the back of 1 finals loss in 4....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

31 mate, now i understand why you are so angry

39 now I understand why he's got a good grip on the game and how it is played.

 

[Rumballs]

Ruining my life!

 

[wart101]

Not angry.... Ive just seen it all before. False hopes built on false dawns... Frawely topping up after we thought the job was done.... TW coming out and saying we were locked and loaded at the start 2009.... and now this football department sitting on their hands thinking all we needed was a back up ruckman during the off season.... let 2 players with pace go and didnt have a plan to replace them and riding on the back of the kids natural improvement....

An Administration that was happy to sign up a coach for another three seasons on the back of 1 finals loss in 4....

Things have changed alot though man, we would have sacked the coach by now lol

 

[This Is Anfield]

Like Mickey Arthur? like Mark Neeld ? Like Terry Wallace?

And this means what exactly?

I know Hamspson continually getting picked has fractured the playing group and split opinions pretty strongly amongst the coaching group but don't you believe the performance of his assistants is his responsibilty ? and re uniting the group. A step in the right direction is to reward Big O with at least one game for bleeding for the jumper at VFL level and hand Hampson over to our new development coach in Max Bailey for a few weeks. Would anyone think that was a responsibility of a coach considering the season Hammer is having. He's actually got worse than when he was at Carlton is that even possible ?

OMG! It's Shaun Hampsons fault, yet again!

39 now I understand why he's got a good grip on the game and how it is played.

Hahaha! You won't like how old I am then, if being older gives one a better grip on the game!

 

[RunningBounce]

BF is really the only part of the world that is this black and white -

Poster A: Dimma has no idea/no plan B, isn't up to it, need to be sacked!

Poster B: Dimma can't get out there and kick the ball for them/run for them/execute the game plan for them. He led us to 15 wins last season... it's the players who need a rocket.

If the senior coach was solely responsible for success in AFL, why doesn't the same senior coach win the premiership every year?

If the playing list was solely responsible for success in AFL, why doesn't the same playing list win the premiership every year?

Neither Poster A or B get close to the truth, which is messy, complicated and mostly unknowable.

AFL is a competition. Success or failure involves what teams other than Richmond do, as well as what Richmond do, the weather, the draw, the bounce of a ball, injuries, confidence, and a lot more besides.

The coach carries the can for all of that, but that doesn't make him responsible for any of it. That's the dark art of AFL coaching. Some effective coaches appear as though they are responsible for the direction the earth turns. As nut will tell you, as soon as the coach makes excuses, the magic spell is broken. In reality, coaches are not even solely responsible for the playing list, which they inherit, and manage in collaboration with other staff in the Football Department.

But, whatever. tl;dr

 

[nobulltiger]

Breathing in all those petrol fumes on punt rd at training, they'll never be fit enough. Time to move?

 

[nut]

As nut will tell you, as soon as the coach makes excuses, the magic spell is broken.

Once the senior coach starts going down the excuses road then its exceptable for everyone to start making excuses from the top down.... Everyone starts to blame their performance on something---"I'm being played out of position".... "The game plan is letting us down" ... etc etc...... It also opens the coach up to criticism and debate whether those excuses are exceptable...

Was missing Rance, Lids and Maric detrimental to our best 22.... of course. But as other coaches say and demand from its entire group is for the group to stand up and fill the void... "we replace on soldier with another" ..... Its this mantra that is very important to hold the ship together. Plus Why are we in a position where after 5 pre-season we dont have enough depth etc to cover injuries??

Its this defeatist attitude tat the coach should never go near..... EVER.

The other one is naming and blaming individuals for poor performances in losses..... that was the main reason Frawley lost the players.

 

[Grechy]

What I find most astounding is how after so many rounds we’re only now playing Miles – Clearly our best midfielder behind Dustin Martin. Would come 2nd in our best and fairest if he played a full season. Makes me wonder.

 

[RunningBounce]

We all understand what you're saying. You've said it plenty of times. Some agree. Some disagree, but again, it's not black and white. I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of what you say.

Its this defeatist attitude tat the coach should never go near..... EVER.

I agree.

Why are we in a position where after 5 pre-season we dont have enough depth etc to cover injuries??

I disagree, particularly on Rance and Deledio.

The salary cap means you can only have a handful of genuine stars on any team. Sydney without Tippett and Franklin lost to GWS. Hawthorn's defence looks leaky without Lake and Gibson. This calibre of player can not be replaced. You'll only ever have a stop-gap.

The trick is to use non-monetary incentives to convince more stars to stay on less money than they would get elsewhere, as Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood have done. To give an example, you need Roughead to play for less than his worth because he believes he will win a premiership with Gunston and Breust fitting in under the salary cap.

It takes years and years to get to the point where you can do that. Sacking the coach, or supporters continually calling for the coach to be sacked, destabilises the club and hinders us from getting to that point.

 

[sportshow]

How many times has a coaching move won us a game?

How many times has he outcoached the oposing coach?

 

[Roachy8]

Breathing in all those petrol fumes on punt rd at training, they'll never be fit enough. Time to move?

Hey - I got an idea - lets move out to Craigieburn!
Country air...

 

[nut]

We all understand what you're saying. You've said it plenty of times. Some agree. Some disagree, but again, it's not black and white. I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of what you say.



I agree.



I disagree, particularly on Rance and Deledio.

The salary cap means you can only have a handful of genuine stars on any team. Sydney without Tippett and Franklin lost to GWS. Hawthorn's defence looks leaky without Lake and Gibson. This calibre of player can not be replaced. You'll only ever have a stop-gap.

The trick is to use non-monetary incentives to convince more stars to stay on less money than they would get elsewhere, as Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood have done. To give an example, you need Roughead to play for less than his worth because he believes he will win a premiership with Gunston and Breust fitting in under the salary cap.

It takes years and years to get to the point where you can do that. Sacking the coach, or supporters continually calling for the coach to be sacked, destabilises the club and hinders us from getting to that point.

Well our efforts to keep Matty White at the club was trumped because we offered him 1 year deal.... Can I use that as evidence that this football department doesnt know how to keep a list together? Matty White was happy to stay on the same money he was on and I know that as fact but wanted more security and a longer deal.... and he was in tears at the B&F..... we pushed him to Port to their benefit.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

How many times has a coaching move won us a game?

How many times has he outcoached the oposing coach?

Subbing Hampson at half time has kept us in games but not picking him at all would be a smarter move.

In saying that I think we all know that Dimma has a lot to learn on match days . Some are argueing more time will remedy this why others will argue 111 games and no improvement is enough.

 

[RunningBounce]

Well our efforts to keep Matty White at the club was trumped because we offered him 1 year deal.... Can I use that as evidence that this football department doesnt know how to keep a list together? Matty White was happy to stay on the same money he was on and I know that as fact but wanted more security and a longer deal.... and he was in tears at the B&F..... we pushed him to Port to their benefit.

You can use Matty White as evidence. (The reason I haven't ignored you is that you use evidence and make your point well, with minimal ranting. I like that about you, even if I sometimes get sick of your persistence.) I'm not happy with we lost him, and I wish him and Port all the best.

But I am happy we didn't lose a top 10 B&F player, like Martin. The club handled that very well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we must be one of the few clubs that did not lose a single player to the expansion teams?

So I'm counting Nahas, Derickx and White as 3 losses to a list of 38. Is the glass 3/38ths empty, or 35/38ths full?

 

[Neen]

I agree. While I get that Dimma can't get out there and execute the skills of the game for individual players, what he must take responsibility for is the general way in which HIS side is playing. Which for the best post of season 2014 has been abysmal.

The game plan - Dimma's game plan - is either crap, or hasn't been communicated well enough to players, or hasn't been understood/bought into by players. They're playing scared, confused, listless football that has us equal last the comp. This falls on Dimma's shoulders.

The players have largely played without passion and spirit. This falls on Dimma's shoulders.

There doesn't seem to be a standard set for the basics... effort and intensity should be a non-negotiable, yet seemingly players keep their spot in the side with little threat of their place for not doing the basics. Just look at sides like Melbourne and Port with new coaches drilling the basics of footy and seeing clear improvement. This falls on Dimma's shoulders.

It's worrying when Cotchin handpasses to Dea, then calls for the cheap follow up possession, rather than shepparding, which would've given Dea all the time in the world to assess options and deliver with time and space... from our captain who should be showing the way, it's indicative of where we're at, and ultimately falls on Dimma's shoulders.

It's worrying when you hear players who've left to another club voice how much harder they have to work at their new club. This falls on Dimma's shoulders.

So, Dimma can't get out on the ground and do it for them, but it's on his shoulder to have a game plan that works, that he can get the players to execute with a level of confidence competence, to set the minimum standard on the track and on game day, and ultimately to get the results.

That's my $0.02, anyway

Worth much more than $0.02 ! Brilliant assessment.

The Freo game summed up the year for me. Jack misses from 35m out. Jack leads to the boundaries. Hampson misses from 35m out. The coach is not responsible for players who are paid megabucks to miss simple shots at goal that the Auskick kids were nailing at the break. That rests solely on the players. Instead of wearing fancy boots, get back to basics and have an extra session after training having shots at goal.

There was zero effort to attack the corridor. That's either a coaching error, or the players are not brave enough to take the risks. It is someone else's hot potato. If the players are not following the coach's directions, drop them. If the coach is telling the players not to use the corridor, I'd be really pissed off, as that was why we scored so easily last year.

I'd like to know how much influence the coach has over the match committee as they have made some poor decisions at the selection table.

I think the problems are many, and most of the issues are part of the preparation. Lack of fitness (Pavlich burning Dea along the wing) and Martin completely spent heading to the bench and he is sent back twice as examples.

Dimma should and would accept full responsibility for this year's disaster. But I think there are a combination of problems that cannot be blamed on his performance. I'm sure a review would demonstrate the rot stated with Vickery as the focus, Jack as the decoy and Martin on the half back line.

 

[nobulltiger]

Hey - I got an idea - lets move out to Craigieburn!
Country air...

I reckon we swap with saints, seaford seaside air.

 

[nut]

You can use Matty White as evidence. (The reason I haven't ignored you is that you use evidence and make your point well, with minimal ranting. I like that about you, even if I sometimes get sick of your persistence.) I'm not happy with we lost him, and I wish him and Port all the best.

But I am happy we didn't lose a top 10 B&F player, like Martin. The club handled that very well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we must be one of the few clubs that did not lose a single player to the expansion teams?

So I'm counting Nahas, Derickx and White as 3 losses to a list of 38. Is the glass 3/38ths empty, or 35/38ths full?

I suppose I'm more pissed off that the club failed to see why pksyers like White and Nahas are important .... And we didn't have replacements for them.... Our plan was to use Newman forward... Those sought of decisions all add up to create my opinion that Dimma and his football department don't know how to put a football side together.

 

[TiggerMan22]

While Dimma is responsible for a bit, he still gets blamed for way too much.
On the weekend it was 100% the players fault we lost. The game plan worked very well looking at the stats and we beat Freo all over the ground.
But the players messed up with our goal kicking and turnovers. Yet I still see people calling for Dimmas head -_-

 

[Roachy8]

While Dimma is responsible for a bit, he still gets blamed for way too much.
On the weekend it was 100% the players fault we lost. The game plan worked very well looking at the stats and we beat Freo all over the ground.
But the players messed up with our goal kicking and turnovers. Yet I still see people calling for Dimmas head -_-

Just before I begin - I am not calling on Dimma to be sacked... I am calling on Dimma to get the team winning the games that last year we were winning easily...

On the last bit above, yes - players are responsible for shit goal kicking and under 8's turnovers... BUT, I do lay some of the blame for this on the Coach (& coaches) for having the whole place operating like a busted arse all year to the point that guys can no longer convert from 20M out or hit a 30 metre short pass (skills that they apparently do brilliantly at training.... "we have responded really well on the track this week")

This smacks of lack of confidence, cohesion, trust in each other & mental strength.

These are things that coaches of elite professional teams have to be able to instil in the group....

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Management and the training of staff in correlation with the football manager . To implement what he wants in the manner he wants .
The loss of staff means re training , whilst the in-efficiencies of staff means he wears it .
The failings of long term staff is on his head . Ie Lade , The other Williams and FJ .
The loss of football department staff over the past 18 months including the football manager have no doubt meant there has been a step back to go forward .

 

[living_in_syd]

Coaches have a big influence on culture, work ethic, etc

Seems like we are continually weak in that area. Poor decisions at selection table, playing favourites and just generally just a dumb football team that makes simple errors and poor decisions.

 

[This Is Anfield]

Coaches have a big influence on culture, work ethic, etc

Seems like we are continually weak in that area. Poor decisions at selection table, playing favourites and just generally just a dumb football team that makes simple errors and poor decisions.

How would you categorize the culture, work ethic, etc that enables a basket case of a club to rise to 15-7 in four years?

 

[DrMike]

How would you categorize the culture, work ethic, etc that enables a basket case of a club to rise to 15-7 in four years?

Changing culture and work ethic can help you get to a certain level but it's taking that next step that requires more.

Honestly I just think the club read the game wrong, they've admitted as much. They expected that games would become stoppage games so built bodies and trained to support that mindset. As Port have shown it went the other way and now we're spending most of this year trying to catch up and fix what we learned during preseason. It was a mistake, but it's how the club deals with the mistake that will be the telling factor.

The problem is, while we think our season is shot, we're still a mathematical chance of making finals and the club will play with that in mind. We all know we won't but until that chance is officially zero then the club will keep trying. Friday nights game will mean a lot in this respect.

On topic a bit more, the responsibility of the head coach probably differs at every club but they should have a vision of how to play and emulate that vision. This might be where our problem lies in the moment or where some people are complaining, Hardwick talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

I've always said you can't judge a coach until their career is over, Hardwick has certainly been a part of the clubs transformation, and off field we've been mostly perfect other than this preseason. As a business, we're in a very good position. As a playing group, there's still work to be done.

 

[TiggerMan22]

The problem is, while we think our season is shot, we're still a mathematical chance of making finals and the club will play with that in mind. We all know we won't but until that chance is officially zero then the club will keep trying. Friday nights game will mean a lot in this respect.

Doesn't really matter if we can or can't make it anymore. If we finish of this season strong, then we go into next season with more confidence and self belief. Even if we can't make finals we should still be trying to win every game.