What Shane Tuck Does - 2012 Thread

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I have to agree as well....Cotch is a smaller more polished version of Tucky...

Dual 'extractors'.......

Cotchins core strenght is amazing... and he knows how to use it.

Tuck has alot of strength in lefting the ball up... upper body strength whilst keeping his feet. The Skinny old man, Tuck senior could out Bench press most at the Hawks incuding piggy.

 

[nut]

Tuck has a got a bit of Wayne Campbell syndrome about him. Not in the style of play, but in their disposal. How many times did we see Cambo do those dinky little high kicks into the forward line where Richo would get clobbered.

Tuck has no trouble winning the contested ball, it's just the tendency to bang it on the boot that gets the team in trouble. The simple solution would be to dish off the handball to someone alongside. I know it could become a bit predictable that way but worth a shot. Actually it's such a simple solution that the must have tried it already.
[EDIT: I see i'm not the only one to suggest this]

I think we can all agree that Tuck should have played more games last year. It was folly to leave him out so long and no coincidence (IMHO) that when he came back in we started winning games. I think Hardwick has admitted as much anyway.

Tuck can be an extremely important player... especially in games with high stoppages... We need to utilise his strenghts. Thats what good coaches do...

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

The thing is I want us to replace Tuck.... But I want to replace him with someone better.

Absolutely mate, but thing is, unlike some of the fantasies which appeared last year about who he could be replaced by, and even again here on this thread (whoever was silly enough to suggest Arnott could start do so this year), genuinely replacing Tuck requires 3-4+ pre-seasons and a massive frame which can withstand constant enormous punishment, let alone all his rare talent and hardness. We need him to play for several years yet if his body will hold up, which I suspect it might.

A good coach would use him as an example to the rest of the on ballers.

Hopefully we've finally reached that chapter. 'Cambo' must be seething...quietly in the corner.

Firstly Cotchins inside game improved immensely last season and I think primarily as a result of not having someone else doing the grunt work ,

Garbage. He continued a natural progression from all the inside work we'd already seen from him, just this time he'd had a proper pre-season and was a little more mature. Take a look at Cotchin's numbers from the rd.18 game where we finally started using Tuck in the midfield again. Did Tuck being there hinder his development? I thought it was his best game of the year all things considered. Tuck improves everyone else in the centre, which is the message coming out of the club finally.

...likewise players like Edwards and Nahas where forced to gain some form of an inside game .

They were forced to play as actual inside-mids for extended periods when they were and are totally unsuited - as blind freddy knew in advance. At stoppages around the ground, every player has a chance to 'gain an inside game.' That doesn't mean you play them in the centre square on the best mids in the league or anything ridiculous like we did.

Also Martin's plea for a rest could very well be argued as being a result of coming back to post Xmas with a Eddie McGuire like figure .

Argued by a professional strawman dispenser perhaps.

he still has gapping holes in his game ,

If there was still a video at the beginning of this thread where it should be (which is the entire 'What Shane Tuck does' aspect of this thread!), I'd refer you to it so you and your fellow Tuck haters could actually watch it for the first time. There isn't a single skill in the game which Tuck doesn't execute perfectly several times in that clip.

The decision to leave him out of the side last season most certainly was the right one for the clubs long term development/ benefit, which is obviously not appreciated by those with short sight syndrome .

LMAO...the coach belatedly agrees with what a small handful of us argued all season, and you pretend it was all planned and not an error in judgement? His judgement the judgement of the mob, all clearly flawed. Kudos to Hardwick for changing his opinion.

I admitted after the Geelong game last week that I was wrong about not wanting Tuck in the side.

You've only admitted it because the wind is blowing that way and you have to get back in step with Hardwick...couldn't have you ever disagreeing with him now, could we?

When the wind blew in the other direction last year, you bagged Tuck on a virtually daily basis. When he came back in and instantly improved us dramatically last year, you devoted thousands of words to arguing with me and others about why he really didn't at all.

Ever thought about coming up with your own opinion based on what your own eyes see instead of testing the wind about what's coming out of the coach's mouth and being sure what you need to argue to be perfectly in sync with him? It'd be a refreshing first.

Cotchin Martin Edwards Nahas Grigg Conca all benefitted in some way by not having Tuck around doing what he does best. It forced them to step up and learn how to win the hard ball themselves, rather than having him feed it out to them.

Edwards, Nahas and Grigg didn't learn squat about winning hard ball, except that they can't against quality opposition (or plenty of B and C-graders for that matter, as we witnessed in the Melbourne game for just one of many examples). Conca had 3-4 part-games at best in the middle before he had to finish his season well before he would have if left on a flank where first year kids belong. Cotchin and Martin need no help at how to find the ball, they need defensive coaching and mature, big bodied support - which they got left without for most of the year thanks to some appalling football judgement on the part of the coaching staff and the selection committee.

Its no coincidence that this preseason we have been able to use these blokes in the centre square and around stoppages, when Tuck hasn't been in there and haven't fallen away as badly as we did last year.

You're right, it's no coincidence that against the unfit and the nobodies and the blokes just having a run, these players don't fall away as much. They'll be used sparingly, if at all, when it comes to centre square ball-winning against top opponents once the season proper starts, as it should be.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Stop being a twit... It was clear that Cotchin wanted Tuck in the side.... Who ever it was whoi made the decision has been put back in their place. TWICE... once when Tuck put pen to a new contract and again when he starts in the guts round 1.

I commend DH for admitting his stupidity, by allowing his Captain to publicly praise Tucky...

Its a shame we cant pring up the embarrasing posts you and RT put up in the old thread... disgraceful IMO.

You have no evidence what so ever that any plan has been changed nor that 'Who ever it was whoi made the decision has been put back in their place. '
You also have no evidence that DH has in anyone previously prohibited players freedom of speech , in particular his captains , about other players , and this 'I commend DH for admitting his stupidity, by allowing his Captain to publicly praise Tucky... ' is also only an assumption .
There is no evidence what so ever that players have questioned the clubs use of Shane Tuck , merely stated that they admire certain aspects of his game.
I see no evidence what so ever including from Tuck, that there has been any change in direction from the club / DH .
This whole ' DH has been proven wrong ' is nothing but a total beat up from people who are not able to see the whole picture due to their personal feelings toward one player .

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Absolutely mate, but thing is, unlike some of the fantasies which appeared last year about who he could be replaced by, and even again here on this thread (whoever was silly enough to suggest Arnott could start do so this year), genuinely replacing Tuck requires 3-4+ pre-seasons and a massive frame which can withstand constant enormous punishment, let alone all his rare talent and hardness. We need him to play for several years yet if his body will hold up, which I suspect it might.



Hopefully we've finally reached that chapter. 'Cambo' must be seething...quietly in the corner.



Garbage. He continued a natural progression from all the inside work we'd already seen from him, just this time he'd had a proper pre-season and was a little more mature. Take a look at Cotchin's numbers from the rd.18 game where we finally started using Tuck in the midfield again. Did Tuck being there hinder his development? I thought it was his best game of the year all things considered. Tuck improves everyone else in the centre, which is the message coming out of the club finally.

in your opinion


They were forced to play as actual inside-mids for extended periods when they were and are totally unsuited - as blind freddy knew in advance. At stoppages around the ground, every player has a chance to 'gain an inside game.' That doesn't mean you play them in the centre square on the best mids in the league or anything ridiculous like we did.

so in your opinion all players despite where they are playing go to similar amount of clearances around the ground ?

Argued by a professional strawman dispenser perhaps.
do you actually know why Dustin asked to be rested during the year and how little he was involved inside the centre square or clearances ?


If there was still a video at the beginning of this thread where it should be (which is the entire 'What Shane Tuck does' aspect of this thread!), I'd refer you to it so you and your fellow Tuck haters could actually watch it for the first time. There isn't a single skill in the game which Tuck doesn't execute perfectly several times in that clip.
anyone can make a highlights video


LMAO...the coach belatedly agrees with what a small handful of us argued all season, and you pretend it was all planned and not an error in judgement? His judgement the judgement of the mob, all clearly flawed. Kudos to Hardwick for changing his opinion.

you have no evidence what so ever that DH plans for Shane Tuck had in anyway changed, but hey that doesn't suit your argument does it ?

You've only admitted it because the wind is blowing that way and you have to get back in step with Hardwick...couldn't have you ever disagreeing with him now, could we?

When the wind blew in the other direction last year, you bagged Tuck on a virtually daily basis. When he came back in and instantly improved us dramatically last year, you devoted thousands of words to arguing with me and others about why he really didn't at all.

Ever thought about coming up with your own opinion based on what your own eyes see instead of testing the wind about what's coming out of the coach's mouth and being sure what you need to argue to be perfectly in sync with him? It'd be a refreshing first.



Edwards, Nahas and Grigg didn't learn squat about winning hard ball, except that they can't against quality opposition (or plenty of B and C-graders for that matter, as we witnessed in the Melbourne game for just one of many examples). Conca had 3-4 part-games at best in the middle before he had to finish his season well before he would have if left on a flank where first year kids belong. Cotchin and Martin need no help at how to find the ball, they need defensive coaching and mature, big bodied support - which they got left without for most of the year thanks to some appalling football judgement on the part of the coaching staff and the selection committee.



You're right, it's no coincidence that against the unfit and the nobodies and the blokes just having a run, these players don't fall away as much. They'll be used sparingly, if at all, when it comes to centre square ball-winning against top opponents once the season proper starts, as it should be.

A lot of self opininated comments with no evidence what so ever .
The Pro Tuck camp claims that the club / DH should have played Tuck last season and gone all out to play finals and are attempting to use players positive remarks about single aspects of a players games to support a alledged back flip , all is speculative which IMO is b/s .

 

[nut]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

You have no evidence what so ever that any plan has been changed nor that 'Who ever it was whoi made the decision has been put back in their place. '
You also have no evidence that DH has in anyone previously prohibited players freedom of speech , in particular his captains , about other players , and this 'I commend DH for admitting his stupidity, by allowing his Captain to publicly praise Tucky... ' is also only an assumption .
There is no evidence what so ever that players have questioned the clubs use of Shane Tuck , merely stated that they admire certain aspects of his game.
I see no evidence what so ever including from Tuck, that there has been any change in direction from the club / DH .
This whole DH has been proven wrong is nothing but a total beat up from people who are not able to see the whole picture due to their personal feelings toward one player .

No change in direction???? really? So Tuck is going to be left out of the side again round 1 for the third season in a row??

 

[CoggaRules]

I know for sure and certain that what Shane Tuck does to a tee is create mega threads that span the years.
I mean, the rest of the comp passed when we shopped him around, but here the debate rages as to his "influence" on results etc.
Tipping even after the game has passed him by, the debate will rage to Tamblingesque proportions..
Some tigerheads here, talk of him like if he wasnt there the fortunes of the club would dive to the bottom..
The insanity gets to mega proportions when we have delusional tigerheads suggesting inate talent and skill to back up their opinions..He posseses the basic skills and has a limited splash of talent and has grunt..thats it...anything else is pissing in the wind.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

I know for sure and certain that what Shane Tuck does to a tee is create mega threads that span the years.
I mean, the rest of the comp passed when we shopped him around, but here the debate rages as to his "influence" on results etc.
Tipping even after the game has passed him by, the debate will rage to Tamblingesque proportions..
Some tigerheads here, talk of him like if he wasnt there the fortunes of the club would dive to the bottom..
The insanity gets to mega proportions when we have delusional tigerheads suggesting inate talent and skill to back up their opinions..He posseses the basic skills and has a limited splash of talent and has grunt..thats it...anything else is pissing in the wind.

Pissing in the Wind...huh...Cogga...

Well thats not a problem you'll personally have to ever deal with...

Going by the 'dribble' you have posted on BF.....LOL...

 

[CoggaRules]

Pissing in the Wind...huh...Cogga...

Well thats not a problem you'll personally have to ever deal with...

Going by the 'dribble' you have posted on BF.....LOL...

exhibit A of what is commonly known as dellusionary behaviour and I quote:
"There isn't a single skill in the game which Tuck doesn't execute perfectly several times in that clip."

Nuff said about drivel..I might go on about shit, but at the end of the day I dont hallucinate about stuff..

 

[El Tigre]

At least now that Hardwick has signed, and if he plays Tuck, that people won't jump on board and say Hardwick was only playing him so that he gets the win-loss up

Maybe if we have losses, maybe it'll be Tucky's fault.

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

You've only admitted it because the wind is blowing that way and you have to get back in step with Hardwick...couldn't have you ever disagreeing with him now, could we?

I admitted I was wrong because unlike some I don't have a problem with putting my hand up and saying I was wrong.

When the wind blew in the other direction last year, you bagged Tuck on a virtually daily basis. When he came back in and instantly improved us dramatically last year, you devoted thousands of words to arguing with me and others about why he really didn't at all.

At the same time I stand by my call from last year, because based on what I saw both at AFL & VFL level Tuck wasn't worthy of a spot.

Ever thought about coming up with your own opinion based on what your own eyes see instead of testing the wind about what's coming out of the coach's mouth and being sure what you need to argue to be perfectly in sync with him? It'd be a refreshing first.

What I have said about Tuck is my own opinion, formed on what I have seen live at the ground, where I can see how things happened before Tuck got the ball, what he did while in possession of the ball and what happened after he disposed of the ball. This is because I sat there in the 2010 and 2011 preseasons and watched Tuck struggle in games against VFL level midfielders and I also sat there and watched Tuck struggle to have an impact against second string AFL midfields in NAB challenge games as well. Now as much as you can't and won't admit it, it was quite clear based on those performances that Tuck didn't deserve his spot in the side.

On the other hand, your opinion is based on limited footage that you get from a TV, where you have said that you have to assume and guess as to what has/is happening both before and after Tuck gets the ball. BTW its not the only thing that you guess and assume about now is it.

Edwards, Nahas and Grigg didn't learn squat about winning hard ball, except that they can't against quality opposition (or plenty of B and C-graders for that matter, as we witnessed in the Melbourne game for just one of many examples). Conca had 3-4 part-games at best in the middle before he had to finish his season well before he would have if left on a flank where first year kids belong. Cotchin and Martin need no help at how to find the ball, they need defensive coaching and mature, big bodied support - which they got left without for most of the year thanks to some appalling football judgement on the part of the coaching staff and the selection committee.

Of course they struggled last year, but this is the sort of short term pain that will make us a much better side in years to come. All these guys learnt what it takes to win contested footy without having a big body around to protect them. This year with Tuck back as well as Cotchin and Martin understanding how to block and create space for their team mates these guys have all been able to go into the middle for short bursts and haven't allowed the opposition to simply waltz away with the footy.

What is appalling is how some supporters can quickly turn on the coaches and selection committee when they fail to see/understand why they are doing things that to them make little or no sense. Its that sort of short sighted behaviour that has seen this club go around in circles for the best part of 30 years.

You're right, it's no coincidence that against the unfit and the nobodies and the blokes just having a run, these players don't fall away as much. They'll be used sparingly, if at all, when it comes to centre square ball-winning against top opponents once the season proper starts, as it should be.

So what happens Ray when come the season proper these guys are being used through the midfield, can we expect you to put your hand up and admit you got another thing wrong or will you do your usual trick of going of on a totally different tangent.

 

[santa claws]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I think the club did a back flip personally. The backlash from the treatment of Tuck went far and wide. The rumours that Tuck was being held back so we didn;t have to extend his contract were strong.

The comments from Cotchin last season and now Newman..... I think the club was forced to change their decision.

I look at the Melbourne and how they went WAY too far when the gutted their list... young players playing in positions where there were no experienced players to guide them.

Lets be honest... DH was hoping that someone would take Tucks spot... without realising (for the second year in a row) how important Tuck is. Only Cotchin has shown he can extract the ball as good as Tuck. Now do we want Cotchin on the bottom of packs??? or outside ????

Ok lets look at the team with argubly the best you mids in the comp... GWS... hmmm why did Sheeds and Mark Williams, two premiership coaches feel the need to put Power and a 34 year old Mcdonald... into the side??? 2 players that will retire at years end most likely...hmmmm short term think you would say??? definately NOT... they are looking at the long term development of their young players... to learn of battle harden proffesionals.... They know the value of onfield leaders... and that YOU CANT throw kids to the wolves too early. GC also got muture age mids as well.

Another point you can answer me ???/ Why did DH play Cousins??? yet couldn't afford the luxury of playing TUCK???



You talk about finding out what players can do..... well if DH needs to work out that young players cant keep the work load up for extended periods of the season and game time then we surely need to find a new coach... I'm all for spreading the load... but I like to put enough vegimite on my knife to cover the bread. What DH did was create a whole too great to fill.... especially in the absence of Deledio and Cousins out of the middle last season. It was there for everyone to see... statistically we were getting SMASHED in the middle.
Our season revival started when Tuck was put back in the side... Martins was able to turn his form around and played with more freedom.

Last season we should have fine tuned Cotchin and Martin outside work... not treat them like battering rams.



And this season our backline worries me ... Playing Post, Rance, Grimes, Batchelor, Ellis and Morris???? Looks to me DH is going to throw the Backs to the wolves. How long will it take to make the decision that even with his flaws the experience that Mcguane has should make him our first back picked.
I think we are setting Post up to fail personally because I dont think he is ready... I will predict that he will play the first 4-5 games until we are forced to drop him because he isn't upto it.... thats what throwing a player to wolves is... What this will do to Posts long term confidence will be ingrained into him... I doint think he is a player that will get back from this constent in and out of the side.

He needs to EARN his spot.... through Coburg not pre-season fluff games.

Why cant we do what Malthouse does???? he plays the hacks in the senoirs until, the younsgters are ready... Why is it that MM's youngsters always seem ready??? hmmm because he doesn;t play them until they are... especially KPP's. He uses player like Anthony until he knows Dawes has finished his apprenticship in the two's... Dawes walks into the side and is an instant success. I'll be all day talking about his backs...

sheesh we agree on something almost 100% i could not have said it better and so i have to say well said sir well said indeed.
the only thing i cant agree on is mcguane he is a dud no buts no bones about it.why we didnt go and get a mature big kpd is beyond me.

its as if no hardwick has not made any mistakes at all and when someone dares suggest hes has you have to go thru a 50 page thread twoing and throwing.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

I admitted I was wrong because unlike some I don't have a problem with putting my hand up and saying I was wrong.

That's about as believable as a major party politician saying the same thing - you have the same mindset. Wriggle and squirm as long and hard as you possibly can, then pretend you're a saint for 'confessing' your error so long after the fact that it's completely redundant and completely disingenuous.

What I have said about Tuck is my own opinion, formed on what I have seen live at the ground...

Which amazingly, has just happened to coincide exactly with the club's selection policy? :

Tuck's been the same player, doing the same things from 2005 onwards and some of us had enough football intelligence to know that.

watched Tuck struggle to have an impact against second string AFL midfields in NAB challenge games as well.

He was practically BOG for the half he played against Hawthorn where he was actually used in the midfield, he had bugger all other chances. Again, you use blind scatter gun revisionism to try and find some support for the unsupportable, in lieu of any actual evidence, only to end up nailing yourself, not me.

On the other hand, your opinion is based on limited footage that you get from a TV...

It's beyond pathetic for you to constantly bring this up - this must be the dozenth time at a minimum, along with your routine Wallace strawmen (which are even worse considering how long you were his professional apologist for, before doing your customary flip-flop 180 - complete with yet another username change - and stabbing him in the back harder than anyone).

If any club wants to work out what actually happened in a game and use it to better what they're doing, they watch game footage, on a TV. They don't go and find some random moron from the crowd miles from the action and ask him to describe what happened in the game for them.

As for my ability to analyse the game, you're on a thread where I'm one of a very few who argued Tuck's case - me right, you wrong. It's a common theme. If you or anyone else had anything which genuinely brought into question my ability to analyse the game in the 4-5 years I've been here, you'd have used it over and over again to try and silence and/or discredit me. You haven't found one yet (not for lack of daily trying), so you have to go with this kind of lowbrow bollocks, hoping *someone* out there might actually believe you.

Good luck with that.

Of course they struggled last year, but this is the sort of short term pain that will make us a much better side in years to come. All these guys learnt what it takes to win contested footy without having a big body around to protect them.

Nahas is a featherweight outside player (and a good one who is working hard at what he does best), no coach in his right mind would ever use him as an inside mid - except one trying to cover up and/or justify an error of judgement. Grigg is a running link player (and a useful one in that role), not a natural elite ball-winner by any stretch of the imagination. If he was going to be that player, he'd already be well on the way - he's not. Conca has talent, but was exposed to way too much, way too early. I said all these things in advance of them being used that way, and they all turned out correct.

None of them learned much of anything except that they're not remotely capable of being Shane Tuck, which is why he's back to make a fool out of you. Conca might get there one day, but it was incredibly dumb selection policy to push that role on him way before he was ready. It ended up costing him half a season of desperately needed experience - the precise opposite result to what we should have been (and no doubt were...badly) trying to achieve.

So what happens Ray when come the season proper these guys are being used through the midfield...

I don't have the slightest doubt that you'll try and pretend that my statement about them seldom being used as ball-winners (i.e. inside mids), meant that I said they'd never play on a wing or would never be involved in around the ground stoppages. You've already started. That's what you do - find any possible misinterpreted semantic or wholesale invent a strawman and argue it to death until you bore the entire board to tears, me more than anyone.

can we expect you to put your hand up and admit you got another thing wrong...

You should start a dedicated and stickied thread about all the things I've 'got wrong' if it's going to be your season-long theme...and in turn I'll be free from the constant threat of sanction to put up your enormous number of complete flip-flop reversals in opinion - let the board judge for themselves if anyone can actually be bothered, instead of you constantly accusing me of 'errors of judgement' that exist only in your head. You and I both know who'll come out of that smelling like roses, and who will look like a poster whose supposed 'personal opinions' have flip-flopped so often and so dramatically over the years that they have been rendered utterly irrelevant as anything but comedy gold.

I think I'll start with a quote of me arguing last year that we should be playing our five best clearance players in the same midfield, you arguing against it over and over again and calling me an idiot for not goose-stepping to Hardwick's beat like a 'good supporter', then you starting off this season saying we need to play all our five best clearance players together, like it was your original idea, or a brilliant new masterstroke from a genius coach.

And you can start with countless hours trawling the archives for examples of a leprechaun eating a unicorn.

Edit: And while you're at it, why not have a dedicated thread where you can make sure anyone who didn't see the game live, knows they can expect to have their opinion treated as worthless? No? That wouldn't go down too well?

 

[tunksy]

forgive me for not going through the entire thread, but who on the list can actually replace tuck once he retiers or we let him go? I think hes only got a year or two left.

do we find a draftee this year that will be an insde mid beast and get us clearances?

do you go all guns blazing for one paddy dangerfield?

do we have the answer already? ellis, morris, arnot?

 

[RICHOLEGEND12]

i really cant be bothered reading through this anymore... What are we even argueing about anymore?? Didn't already RT already admit the other day that tuck should be in the side.

 

[rammbo]

Tuck is a survivor and appears to hav the same durability as his old man , would not suprise me if he plays on for another 5 years or even more and without any decline of what he is now.Will hav to delist him to get him out.

 

[CoggaRules]

forgive me for not going through the entire thread, but who on the list can actually replace tuck once he retiers or we let him go? I think hes only got a year or two left.

do we find a draftee this year that will be an insde mid beast and get us clearances?

do you go all guns blazing for one paddy dangerfield?

do we have the answer already? ellis, morris, arnot?

Yes and no, no on the mentioned players, yes to already having the answer, since its now common knowledge that DuckRax is the answer to everything.

 

[tunksy]

Yes and no, no on the mentioned players, yes to already having the answer, since its now common knowledge that DuckRax is the answer to everything.

sigh not the duckrax joke again!

cant see tuck playing on more than 2 years. surely with the current mantra down at tigerland kids will replace him sooner rather than later.

 

[SumTingWong]

Tuck has a got a bit of Wayne Campbell syndrome about him. Not in the style of play, but in their disposal. How many times did we see Cambo do those dinky little high kicks into the forward line where Richo would get clobbered.

Tuck has no trouble winning the contested ball, it's just the tendency to bang it on the boot that gets the team in trouble. The simple solution would be to dish off the handball to someone alongside. I know it could become a bit predictable that way but worth a shot. Actually it's such a simple solution that the must have tried it already.
[EDIT: I see i'm not the only one to suggest this]

I think we can all agree that Tuck should have played more games last year. It was folly to leave him out so long and no coincidence (IMHO) that when he came back in we started winning games. I think Hardwick has admitted as much anyway.

If Tuck was half the player Campbell was, this post wouldn't exist because he would have been a gun. Please find someone else to compare him to. Richo was clobbered because he always had 2-3 players on him.

 

[_RT_]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

That's about as believable as a major party politician saying the same thing - you have the same mindset. Wriggle and squirm as long and hard as you possibly can, then pretend you're a saint for 'confessing' your error so long after the fact that it's completely redundant and completely disingenuous.

I've still admitted I was wrong, something that a lot of other people on here will never do. They just simply change the goalposts.

Which amazingly, has just happened to coincide exactly with the club's selection policy? :

Tuck's been the same player, doing the same things from 2005 onwards and some of us had enough football intelligence to know that.

Gee what a shock, based on what I saw, and for that fact what they saw, the conclusion was that Tuck was not worthy of a spot. You just can't accept the fact that your hero wasn't seen to be as valuable as what you thought he should have been.

He was practically BOG for the half he played against Hawthorn where he was actually used in the midfield, he had bugger all other chances. Again, you use blind scatter gun revisionism to try and find some support for the unsupportable, in lieu of any actual evidence, only to end up nailing yourself, not me.

Which Hawthorn game are you talking about the one that was Hardwicks first in charge or the one a couple of weeks back. If its the first one, then I'll admit that he was rather handy in that game, however in the weeks following what I saw, at the ground, showed that he wasn't up to it. A fact that was backed up when the Hardwick and the match committee left him out of the first few games of the season.

The most annoying this about this is that you can't really argue against it so you again make your usual outlandish accusations about me.

It's beyond pathetic for you to constantly bring this up - this must be the dozenth time at a minimum, along with your routine Wallace strawmen (which are even worse considering how long you were his professional apologist for, before doing your customary flip-flop 180 - complete with yet another username change - and stabbing him in the back harder than anyone).

As I've said before when I can see that my opinion is wrong I'll admit that I was wrong about it.

If any club wants to work out what actually happened in a game and use it to better what they're doing, they watch game footage, on a TV. They don't go and find some random moron from the crowd miles from the action and ask him to describe what happened in the game for them.

Once again when challenged about your opinion all you can revert to is attacking the other poster.

As for my ability to analyse the game, you're on a thread where I'm one of a very few who argued Tuck's case - me right, you wrong. It's a common theme. If you or anyone else had anything which genuinely brought into question my ability to analyse the game in the 4-5 years I've been here, you'd have used it over and over again to try and silence and/or discredit me. You haven't found one yet (not for lack of daily trying), so you have to go with this kind of lowbrow bollocks, hoping *someone* out there might actually believe you.

Good luck with that.

I don't have to do anything to question your ability to analyse a game, you have done it for me by admitting that you have to assume and guess as to what is happening off screen when watching games. That in itself is enough to put doubt on what you claim to be fact.

Nahas is a featherweight outside player (and a good one who is working hard at what he does best), no coach in his right mind would ever use him as an inside mid - except one trying to cover up and/or justify an error of judgement. Grigg is a running link player (and a useful one in that role), not a natural elite ball-winner by any stretch of the imagination. If he was going to be that player, he'd already be well on the way - he's not. Conca has talent, but was exposed to way too much, way too early. I said all these things in advance of them being used that way, and they all turned out correct.

None of them learned much of anything except that they're not remotely capable of being Shane Tuck, which is why he's back to make a fool out of you. Conca might get there one day, but it was incredibly dumb selection policy to push that role on him way before he was ready. It ended up costing him half a season of desperately needed experience - the precise opposite result to what we should have been (and no doubt were...badly) trying to achieve.

They don't have to be elite ball winners or the next Tuck, all they have to be is capable enough to give others a break when/if they are needed, without it hurting us too much. On what I've seen so far this year I'm happy to back these guys in if/when they are called upon.

I can't believe you actually believe that it was wrong of Hardwick to plan for our long term future. Surely someone who claims to be quite the football brain would be able to admit that suggesting this was wrong.

I don't have the slightest doubt that you'll try and pretend that my statement about them seldom being used as ball-winners (i.e. inside mids), meant that I said they'd never play on a wing or would never be involved in around the ground stoppages. You've already started. That's what you do - find any possible misinterpreted semantic or wholesale invent a strawman and argue it to death until you bore the entire board to tears, me more than anyone.

I never suggested that they had to be used as inside mids, but once again you change the arguement to suit your POV, rather than discussing the actual topic.



BTW Ray, have you picked up on the change in Tucks game yet? I noticed it in the game against Freo, even though I was neither their nor watching in TV, then saw it in full effect the following week against Geelong.

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

BTW Ray, have you picked up on the change in Tucks game yet? I noticed it in the game against Freo, even though I was neither their nor watching in TV, then saw it in full effect the following week against Geelong.

hmmm strange, so you noticed something you didnt watch and then saw it again the next week.
Add to that the "did you see the exquisite skills, executed to perfection" line from the erayzorhead and this thread is becoming serious.
People are descending into lunacy. This thread could change the way mankind thinks.
Mankind will now not see, but notice and then when they have noticed what they didnt see, then when they see what they didnt see again, they will see it in full effect..and to think the thread topic is What Shane Tuck does...to easy, take a look and you will notice, thats of course if you do it the new way, not look, dont see then notice it when you see it..

 

[Livonski]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Tuck was dropped in 2010 due to his non existent defensive side. And when he came back he played at half back, to help even more with that. I reckon he's improved a lot in that regard, but is still susceptible to being run off.

His other issue is disposal, (anyone mentioned that?) and the problem with that is the game is set up behind the ball with a press, designed to force a stray, bombed kick.

It is no secret that sides are happy for the ball to be in the hands of a turnover merchant. Watch them back off and cover the elite kicks. It's why McGuane is so often exposed.

And all clubs know who the poor kicks and decision makers are in each side. And set up accordingly.

Tuck is a brilliant ball winner, great one grab mark and I reckon he's improving in the areas he's been poor in. But I don't subscribe to the theory that horrible mistakes were made by the coaching staff. He was helped by the coaching staff to improve those areas of his game.
Tuck's weaknesses are known by all in the footy world (except some on this forum), otherwise he would be playing somewhere else. I like him, reckon he does a great job for us, but he's got a couple of flaws. Like a few others...

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Tuck was dropped in 2010 due to his non existent defensive side. And when he came back he played at half back, to help even more with that. I reckon he's improved a lot in that regard, but is still susceptible to being run off.

His other issue is disposal, (anyone mentioned that?) and the problem with that is the game is set up behind the ball with a press, designed to force a stray, bombed kick.

It is no secret that sides are happy for the ball to be in the hands of a turnover merchant. Watch them back off and cover the elite kicks. It's why McGuane is so often exposed.

And all clubs know who the poor kicks and decision makers are in each side. And set up accordingly.

Tuck is a brilliant ball winner, great one grab mark and I reckon he's improving in the areas he's been poor in. But I don't subscribe to the theory that horrible mistakes were made by the coaching staff. He was helped by the coaching staff to improve those areas of his game.
Tuck's weaknesses are known by all in the footy world (except some on this forum), otherwise he would be playing somewhere else. I like him, reckon he does a great job for us, but he's got a couple of flaws. Like a few others...

ok dude,Then think of it this way, if had "brilliant disposal", if all clubs knew that he wasnt one of the poor desicion makers or poor disposers, what would you suggest that all clubs would be doing? yep doing everything in their power to shoot down point 3, making sure that he aint a brilliant ball winner, they dont or dont really sweat on it because if their in and under gets it, its more often than not away, but the %s of us getting clean away are far less, so there is invariably a ball up, a shark or free for a throw...he is there purely because of his size and grunt, nothing more, nothing less. When the time comes that we have a successor that has size, grunt and polished disposal and vision then he becomes irrelevant...forget about erayzorheads etc, they will back the battler to the hilt, because they are battlers and its the good ol aussie spirit to support the battler, and even go as far as to say, the execute all the skills of footy, perfectly..

 

[Livonski]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Sorry Cogga but I don't understand what you're saying. Do you agree/disagree with me or just respect my opinion? Do you get what I'm saying about the setup for the forced kick to a contest?
Do you like Tuck in the side now?

 

[CoggaRules]

Re: What Shane Tuck Does

Sorry Cogga but I don't understand what you're saying. Do you agree/disagree with me or just respect my opinion? Do you get what I'm saying about the setup for the forced kick to a contest?
Do you like Tuck in the side now?

I agree and disagree, but its hard to work out what to agree and what to disagree on when you put forward veiled points that suggest he is a liability skill and desicion making wise, by saying that most clubs set up knowing who the good ball users are and who are not. Have been roaring this from 10 years ago, when the likes of Chaffey, Hyde etc would be in week week out, purely on their disposal stats and others were being bagged here, because they only got it 15 times, even though 14 of those times something happened for us on the scoreboard. i.e. opposition plan knew who had to be watched and who had no effect..its similar to Tuck. He is a brilliant ball winner, because the %s suggest to the opposition that they only have to watch the brilliant ball users..
Right now he is in the right place at the right time, we have a need for grunt and size, because our prospective better options in ball usage are not yet ready in the grunt and size dept. So he extends his career. Thats about it when it comes to my opinion on what Shane Tuck does now, he fills a need, not a want..