What?

[jess-jess]

going into next season you can have 38 on the main list and another 6 between the veteran and rookie lists. ie. (0 veterans 6 rookies, 1 veteran 5 rookies etc)

 

[PAfolwr]

I think most are still jumping the gun.

List Lodgement (1) - - Friday October 29th
Maximum 35 players
Rookie Promotions
Father/Son drafts
Second Year Rookies
That means that by 29-10-2004 you must make room for your compulsory 3 draft picks.

List Lodgement (2) - - Friday November 12th
Delisted Players Nomination - - Wednesday November 17th
Uncontracted Listed Players Nominations Close- - Tuesday November 30th
This is when you want to delist your player by and they get a chance to nominate for the draft.

List Lodgement (3) - - Friday December 3rd
International Rookie player nominations
Delisted Players Nominations Close - Friday December 10th
This is the final notice where a Club finalise it's list before the draft. Veterans, last minute retirements etc.
Plus last chance for delisted player to nominate.

Or, at least that's the way I read it.

Also wrt delisting players, it all depends on whose contract is up for renewal. You cannot just tell a player to go and get stuffed. Well, you could, but he would still count as part of your list and his salary will also count.


There is still plenty of time before us supporters get to find out just what our Clubs will do.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm not sure what the AFC are up to.



Why hasn't the club transferred Hart onto the veterans list and opened up another spot on the main list??

Why hasn't the club transferred Ricciuto onto the veterans list and opened up another spot on the main list - or isn't he eligible??

Why didn't they leave that dud Smith on the rookie list for another year so that once again there would be another spot on the main list?

Given that there were mechanisms available to the club, and they have a stated youth policy, I'm totally confused.

Spot on with your summary Macca

Can only assume:

1. we are at a level with TPP that we don't want to free up more $$$ by putting players on Veteran list. Result if we did would be to overpay some players?

2. We want to maximize 6 players on the rookie list (which is still strange, but because of the draft evenness may be good thinking)

3. We're not looking for re-cycled players in the PSD (goodbye Ackland)

4. We're going to rely on the rookie list for "developing" ruckmen.( can't see one of the fancied ruckmen falling to 24 or 28, and I can't see us take a Neeves or Shaw with either of those picks)

5. There is a thought Stevens won't come up and will retire - freeing up pick 40. Because even in an even draft pick 40 is still a valuable pick

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I
There is still plenty of time before us supporters get to find out just what our Clubs will do.

Yes but as I understand it the Crows have been definitive with regard no further delistings

 

[PAfolwr]

Yes but as I understand it the Crows have been definitive with regard no further delistings

Did they say that? I must have missed that bit.

Are there any players whose contract is up for renewal and they are/should be unhappy with in your opinion?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Did they say that? I must have missed that bit.

Are there any players whose contract is up for renewal and they are/should be unhappy with in your opinion?

Yeah i think it was strongly inferred when the announcement was made on Gallagher.

Crows delist Gallagher
3:34:14 PM Fri 15 October, 2004
Sportal

The Adelaide Crows have delisted midfielder James Gallagher.

The 24-year-old managed 12 games in 2004 and has racked up 38 over the past four seasons.

Gallagher, a local from Norwood, also has 11 goals to his name.

He was elevated from the club's rookie list in 2001.

Gallagher will be the only Crows player delisted before November National's AFL Draft, where the club has selections 8, 24 and 28 in the first 30 picks.

Prior to the trading period, Adelaide also released three of its rookie listed players - Aidan Parker, Tim Hazell and Brad Dabrowski - while Tyson Stenglein headed back to Western Australia, where he will play with West Coast.

Three other 2004 senior list players, Nigel Smart, Wayne Carey and Ronnie Burns have retired.

 

[dreamkillers]

List Lodgement (3) - - Friday December 3rd
International Rookie player nominations
Delisted Players Nominations Close - Friday December 10th

This is the final notice where a Club finalise it's list before the draft. Veterans, last minute retirements etc.
Plus last chance for delisted player to nominate.

Or, that's the way I read it.

Also wrt delisting players, it all depends on whose contract is up for renewal. You cannot just tell a player to go and get stuffed. Well, you could, but he would still count as part of your list and his salary will also count.


There is still plenty of time before us supporters get to find out just what our Clubs will do.

You actually have until 2 weeks after the Pre Season Draft to finalise the Veterans list according to the latest CBA - 2003 - 2008 Collective Bargaining Agreement

13. VETERANS LIST

13.1 (a) An AFL Club may nominate for each AFL Season up to two eligible Players to be transferred from its Primary List to the Veterans List and/or any number of eligible Players to be classified as a veteran on its Primary List, provided the transfer or classification occurs no later than two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the relevant AFL Season.

(b) An AFL Club which classifies a Player on its Primary List as a veteran, may, at a later stage, but no later than two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the relevant AFL Season, transfer the Player to the AFL Club’s Veterans List.

(c) A Player who is transferred to the AFL Club’s Veterans List can only be transferred back to the Primary List of the AFL Club between the end of an AFL Season and two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the next AFL Season and provided that Player remains classified as a veteran on the Primary List.

(d) A Player that is classified as a veteran on the Primary List must remain classified as a Veteran until that Player leaves the Club or is transferred to the Veterans List.

13.2 A Player is eligible for inclusion on an AFL Club’s Veterans List or to be classified as a veteran, on the Primary List if:

(a) the Player has been at the AFL Club on the Primary List for at least ten(10) years; and

(b) the Player is 30 years of age or older as at 30 September in the relevant AFL Season,

provided that in the case of Fremantle and Port Adelaide, a Player will be eligible if he:

• is 30 years of age or older as at 30 September in the relevant AFL Season; and

• has been on the AFL Club’s Primary List since inception of the AFL Club into the AFL Competition.

Once an AFL Club to which these exceptions apply has been in the AFL Competition for 10 years, the exception will cease to apply to that AFL Club and thereafter the provisions of sub-clauses 13.2(a) and (b) will apply.

 

[PAfolwr]

Yeah i think it was strongly inferred when the announcement was made on Gallagher.

Crows delist Gallagher
3:34:14 PM Fri 15 October, 2004
Sportal

...Gallagher will be the only Crows player delisted before November National's AFL Draft, where the club has selections 8, 24 and 28 in the first 30 picks.
...

Ok then, that's that. I had not noticed that.
Going on what DK's posted after yours, your only option left for more picks is to elevate someone to the veterans list, and that may not happen until just before the PSD.

IMO, as I have said on here before, the Crows need to recruit a 50-100 game player or two. You have promising players, top line older ones, but in the middle where the bulk of your team should be there is a bit of a void. Hence the PSD may be appealing.

But the problem still remains (here, on Port's and other boards as well), that it's fine to say so and so should have been delisted, but without knowing the contract details it just may not be possible.
That's where good list management comes into it.

 

[mymansyd]

Need to correct you Mymansyd, you do not get a pre-season draft pick at all if your list size is at maximum after the draft.

3 picks takes our current list to maximum - therefore no PS draft pick.
If Stevens retires yes that gives us pick 40 again but if we pass on #40 we can fill that spare spot in the PS draft (pick 5).

Why we apparently are short of draft picks is because we haven't transferred anyone to the veterans list.

Oh - what you're saying sounds right - but, I guess I was just assuming that Roo and Hart would be placed on the veterans list at some stage before the deadline (which Dreamkillers mentions above is not till 2 weeks after the Pre-Season Draft on December 14). Actually, I thought Hart already was on it. Has he been removed?

My assumption was that our main squad was 33 + the 2 veterans, leaving us with a possible 5 more picks left (National/Pre-Season combined). Odeously, I must be mistaken. Damn, not again!

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Actually, I thought Hart already was on it. Has he been removed?

I believe he was on the main list of 37 this season, but his salary was part of the veterans list - don't ask me how that works

Once your on the Veterans list you cannot be removed unless your delisted.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

This was posted by Weaver on the Draft board:

: Weaver

There are only 608 players in the league, so 50-60 kids is about 1 in 10 which is what you'd expect.

The problem is that it is almost impossable to delist someone under contract and that means guys get their 2-3 years, you can't turn them over after a year like you used to.

Also have to remember that draftees get a gaurenteed 2-year deal. This means than about 50-60 2nd year players who can't be touched many of whom aren't much chop. Also means that clubs are a little more reluctant to draft a kid if they have to give him 2 years instead of 1. Rookie list on the other hand allows 1-year deals at half the pay.

In a draft that is very even and with the consequences of a 2 year contract clogging up spaces on your list if you pick a dud, you can understand clubs relying more on the rookie list to elevate proven players.

Previously 1 year contracts mean't you could pick a bunch, hope you picked up a rough diamond, and if you didn't simply delist after 12 months using a turnover policy.

 

[Stiffy_18]

If this is true, and I can only assume it is, as today was the day all lists had to be finalised, then I am mighty ********ed off.

When will the club accept we have to rebuild, and the only way to do this is to get young players onto the list?

To only use three picks in a draft where our fourth pick was #40, where there would still be very talented players available, is absolutely ********ing ridiculous.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

Talk about over -reaction.

We have 5 free spots. 4 will be used in the National Draft and one in the PSD assuming that Mark Stevens plays on.

You are all forgetting that Roo will go on the veteran's list and that has not been lodged yet

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You are all forgetting that Roo will go on the veteran's list and that has not been lodged yet

Do we know this for fact? - Roo turns 30 in June 2005 ? when do they have to turn 30 by?
Thats only one on the veterans list, as I understand Hart is not on.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Do we know this for fact? - Roo turns 30 in June 2005 ? when do they have to turn 30 by?
Thats only one on the veterans list, as I understand Hart is not on.

After reading this thread a lot of people are stressing over nothing.

John Reid, Neil Craig, James Fantasia and even Steven Trigg have been saying for a while now that we will go in with a list of 40 plus rookies. Roo and Hart are both eligible for veteran's list and will be moved on to veteran's list.

Time and time again the club has said we will have 5 picks all together and we will keep one of those for the pre-season draft. If Stevo doesn't come up we will have 2 picks in the pre-season draft.

Stop stressing people

We will get at least 5 new players through the drafts.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

After reading this thread a lot of people are stressing over nothing.

John Reid, Neil Craig, James Fantasia and even Steven Trigg have been saying for a while now that we will go in with a list of 40 plus rookies. Roo and Hart are both eligible for veteran's list and will be moved on to veteran's list.

Hadn't heard that at all - maybe I operate in the wrong circles

 

[Stiffy_18]

Hadn't heard that at all - maybe I operate in the wrong circles

Don't stress mate. We will keep you informed

We will have 4 picks in the National Draft and 1 or 2 in the pre-season draft.

 

[conVINCEd]

Talk about over -reaction.

We have 5 free spots. 4 will be used in the National Draft and one in the PSD assuming that Mark Stevens plays on.

You are all forgetting that Roo will go on the veteran's list and that has not been lodged yet

Cheers, Stiff.

Just freaked me out to see it on an official looking document.

 

[macca23]

Don't stress mate. We will keep you informed

We will have 4 picks in the National Draft and 1 or 2 in the pre-season draft.

That's certainly how it should be young Stiffmeister.

You make sure that your mate Fantasia listens to you loud and clear!!

 

[mymansyd]

We have 5 free spots. 4 will be used in the National Draft and one in the PSD assuming that Mark Stevens plays on.

You are all forgetting that Roo will go on the veteran's list and that has not been lodged yet

Hey, that's what I thought. Thanks for lightening my load! My head will hit the pillow very softly tonight. Cheers...

 

[Mad Dog]

A happy ending - sanity prevails

35 less 2 vets = 33....+ 4 ND picks = 37...+ 1 PSD pick = 38....!!

Rookie selections are going to be even more important than ever this year given we are down to 4 with 2 vets.

 

[Stiffy_18]

A happy ending - sanity prevails

35 less 2 vets = 33....+ 4 ND picks = 37...+ 1 PSD pick = 38....!!

Rookie selections are going to be even more important than ever this year given we are down to 4 with 2 vets.

Correction. We are down to 3 rookie slections. Remember that Andrews is staying on the rookie list for the second year

 

[Nige_Bix]

Don't stress mate. We will keep you informed

We will have 4 picks in the National Draft and 1 or 2 in the pre-season draft.

Stiffy, if it wasnt for you I wouldnt know anything! Thanks for the enlightenment! - on this occasion and numerous others!!

 

[Crow-mosone]

IMO Neil Craig is going to make a HUGE mistake.

He is obviously of the opinion he can turn a sows ear into a silk purse with the current player list.

How many coaches have failed in the past with that egotistical belief.

my very view expressed earlier. the bridge building yard is proving to be real hard work...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Roo and Hart are both eligible for veteran's list and will be moved on to veteran's list.

If we are stuggling to meet the minimum salary cap, Roo may in fact stay on the main list & move on to the Vets list the following year.

 

[macca23]

If we are stuggling to meet the minimum salary cap, Roo may in fact stay on the main list & move on to the Vets list the following year.

But that's the whole point in question, isn't it.

If for strategic long term salary cap reasons, Roo doesn't go onto the veterans list, or both he and Hart remain on the primary list as veterans, then we don't have any more draft picks than the 3.

The only way we can get any more draft picks in addition to 8, 24 and 28 is to move one or both of Roo and Hart onto the veterans list proper.