Where can we spend our profits to win a Premiership?

[Markfs]

Most of the newspaper made a lot out of Collingwood's profit statement this year. Obviously, its better to make a profit than a loss, but where are the areas where we can make the extra money count?

We know already that the Pies spend more on their football department than most other teams. Should we spend even more there and what areas in particular?

Maybe someone has got an idea about using the money now to establish something that will give us benefits in the future. What kind?

Anyone got any ideas?

 

[Mick98]

I don't think we could spend anymore money better than we already have.

Maybe spend it on bringing more talent to the club?

 

[Markfs]

I don't think we could spend anymore money better than we already have.

Maybe spend it on bringing more talent to the club?

The problem there is the salary cap...we're already paying the mazimum that we can to the players

 

[Smokeyr67]

What about medical staff? We could build our own clinic complete with operating theatre, recovery room and wards, and if someone needs a mid season repair we can get the job done and let them recover in an altitude controlled environment?

I'm only half joking, and thats a worry

I wonder if the club could (or in fact does) provide the players with all their dietary and supplementary needs within the constraints of the salary cap?

 

[Mick98]

[quote="Markfs, post: 26772670, member: 72155"]The problem there is the salary cap...we're already paying the mazimum that we can to the players[/quote]
Wasn't talking just playing talent

 

[Markfs]

[quote="Markfs, post: 26772670, member: 72155"]The problem there is the salary cap...we're already paying the mazimum that we can to the players

Wasn't talking just playing talent[/quote]

well i've heard that everyone is getting a pretty good wage which is the reason the football side costs so much. I must admit that i question why we are paying the top dollar for the football side of the club when it is headed by a first year coach and lots of his deputies are fairly new to coaching

 

[Mick98]

well i've heard that everyone is getting a pretty good wage which is the reason the football side costs so much. I must admit that i question why we are paying the top dollar for the football side of the club when it is headed by a first year coach and lots of his deputies are fairly new to coaching

Well so do I,maybe it's just big business.You move to a massive organisation who are traveling financially well and expect and receive great remuneration.

 

[Knightmare]

I've mentioned it in another similar thread a little while ago but I would put the investment into the medical side and I feel this is the area where the greatest stride forward can be made.

I'd look to mimic the Phoenix Suns (NBA) with what they do with their regular muscle measurements checking for any regularities and weaknesses before problems occur. No club in any sport are better at prolonging careers/getting their players to produce deep into the careers and even when taking on injury prone veterans they have been able to suddenly get them healthy and keep them healthy and playing to their best. It's really extraordinary what they do and I'd be looking to implement their practices and do what they do medically.

 

[Mick98]

I've mentioned it in another similar thread a little while ago but I would put the investment into the medical side and I feel this is the area where the greatest stride forward can be made.

I'd look to mimic the Phoenix Suns (NBA) with what they do with their regular muscle measurements checking for any regularities and weaknesses before problems occur. No club in any sport are better at prolonging careers/getting their players to produce deep into the careers and even when taking on injury prone veterans they have been able to suddenly get them healthy and keep them healthy and playing to their best. It's really extraordinary what they do and I'd be looking to implement their practices and do what they do medically.

We did change the club doctor this year didn't we km?

Keeping ahead of injuries sounds great in theory,but isn't there still a hell of a lot of luck involved in that?
Plus the United States in terms of resources are way in front of us.

 

[Knightmare]

We did change the club doctor this year didn't we km?

Keeping ahead of injuries sounds great in theory,but isn't there still a hell of a lot of luck involved in that?
Plus the United States in terms of resources are way in front of us.

I only know about the typically more spoken about, higher profile staff at Collingwood so I have no knowledge as to who our medical team includes or whether we have added any new staff so others might have more knowledge as to what we presently do and have than I do.

There is some luck with injuries but I think it's much, much less than advertised. My feel while not a medical expert by any stretch of the imagination is when you see some clubs year in, year out have a clean injury list and have their veterans playing productively in any sport longer than that of other clubs it can really stand out and intuitively you just know there is something more to it.

On the Phoenix Suns specifically who I think have it most right they have taken on players who have been injury prone veterans who for the majority of their career have really struggled with injuries and other veterans who have have had bad stretches with injury and they go into the Phoenix program and suddenly they get healthy, not missing games with injury and playing better than they have in five years (and this includes those deep into their late 30s). All the veterans who go into their program really rave about it and it has had such an impact that veteran free agents looking to get their careers back on track go there for a year and for that reason they have become a genuine free agent destination which is just evidence of just how right they have things in a medical sense.

It's something I really hope Collingwood investigate further and really look to mimic because I think it would have a profound impact on injuries and that finding injuries and finding weakness before they turn into something really feels like the key.

To quantify my feel for the difference while I haven't done the sums I could see a running injury list during the season of around 2 players as opposed to the 8/9 we probably run with for much of the season and I think it could cut down on all types of injuries because it really finds where those muscle weaknesses and flexibility weaknesses are before any injury comes from it.

It really is that next innovation and I see a great opportunity for it benefit winning, keeping players healthy, extending playing careers and keeping players productive for longer. Perhaps it even has a further potential to encourage veterans to join the club as free agents. So it can have a major positive flow effect on other aspects at the footy club really strengthening us in a number of ways improving our strengths and more importantly making a relative weak point into a major strength.

 

[Mick98]

I only know about the typically more spoken about, higher profile staff at Collingwood so I have no knowledge as to who our medical team includes or whether we have added any new staff so others might have more knowledge as to what we presently do and have than I do.

There is some luck with injuries but I think it's much, much less than advertised. My feel while not a medical expert by any stretch of the imagination is when you see some clubs year in, year out have a clean injury list and have their veterans playing productively in any sport longer than that of other clubs it can really stand out and intuitively you just know there is something more to it.

On the Phoenix Suns specifically who I think have it most right they have taken on players who have been injury prone veterans who for the majority of their career have really struggled with injuries and other veterans who have have had bad stretches with injury and they go into the Phoenix program and suddenly they get healthy, not missing games with injury and playing better than they have in five years (and this includes those deep into their late 30s). All the veterans who go into their program really rave about it and it has had such an impact that veteran free agents looking to get their careers back on track go there for a year and for that reason they have become a genuine free agent destination which is just evidence of just how right they have things in a medical sense.

It's something I really hope Collingwood investigate further and really look to mimic because I think it would have a profound impact on injuries and that finding injuries and finding weakness before they turn into something really feels like the key.

To quantify my feel for the difference while I haven't done the sums I could see a running injury list during the season of around 2 players as opposed to the 8/9 we probably run with for much of the season and I think it could cut down on all types of injuries because it really finds where those muscle weaknesses and flexibility weaknesses are before any injury comes from it.

It really is that next innovation and I see a great opportunity for it benefit winning, keeping players healthy, extending playing careers and keeping players productive for longer. Perhaps it even has a further potential to encourage veterans to join the club as free agents. So it can have a major positive flow effect on other aspects at the footy club really strengthening us in a number of ways improving our strengths and more importantly making a relative weak point into a major strength.

Pretty sure we snagged Hawthorns doctor.Think they did well this year with injuries especially with their older players.

That would have to be a positive step forward.

 

[Smokeyr67]

Inspired by the "sex before a big game thread"

How about we entice some very athletic women to meet our boys. I'm not saying we pay the girls to breed with our stars, but perhaps organise some social events and invite the likes of Michelle Jenneke in the hope that she'll take a liking to Faz, or the Williams sisters and mate them with Witts.

Just imagine who we'd be looking at if Bucks and Martina Navratalova hooked up.

 

[Knightmare]

Pretty sure we snagged Hawthorns doctor.Think they did well this year with injuries especially with their older players.

That would have to be a positive step forward.

North Melbourne in my mind has the better medical program, at least going off last season. One curious thing to track with them is all their recruits who have had shoulder issues: Garner, Wilkins and one other of their recruits having shoulders issues also so it will be interesting to see whether that was intentional recruiting and whether they get all those right.

Also Sydney I consider exceptional in keeping their players healthy but also extending the playing careers of their players and keeping them productive longer.

In my mind it's really about those clubs who keep their injury list long and really have that ability to extend playing careers with a number of players and have them continue playing their best footy into their 30s. North Melbourne have done this with Harvey and Rawlings with Petrie looking like he could play more good football. Then at Sydney what they did with Brett Kirk was just incredible and they way they have had Goodes, Bolton and O'Keefe playing such good footy all these years has also been impressive with Rhyce Shaw also seemingly getting better with age.

I'm not so sure I'd class Hawthorn in that very upper group in a medical sense. Hodge in particular has had a horrible run with injury. Then Rioli, Stratton, Gilham, Whitecross, Roughead, Lewis, Osborne, Ellis and Guerra have all had their issues with Bailey rarely healthy. It's not such a pretty injury list when you look at the long list of key players missing games for them over the years. I think we could (long term) do better than add a member of the Hawthorn medical team.

 

[Markfs]

Inspired by the "sex before a big game thread"

How about we entice some very athletic women to meet our boys. I'm not saying we pay the girls to breed with our stars, but perhaps organise some social events and invite the likes of Michelle Jenneke in the hope that she'll take a liking to Faz, or the Williams sisters and mate them with Witts.

Just imagine who we'd be looking at if Bucks and Martina Navratalova hooked up.

Good choice...Bucks and Navrat... I think Bucks would have to wear the dress...

 

[Markfs]

Sports science is probably the way to go but I get a bit bored of all that stuff sometimes...

I think the non-football side of the club trying to reach out to its supporters is interesting. It does water down the membership thing a little, but of course that is only going to end up with more merchandising and questions about how to spend the money.

I was thinking earlier that Collingwood could run an accredited VET course on AFL football, that footballers from around Australia could apply for. A part of the course would be for a Collingwood official to appraise them for AFL football...etc etc. We could pick the best 100 applications for a one year course. It doesnt mean that you are going to picked up by Collingwood but it would mean that we would know everything about you...

sort of like in competition to the AIS program...

 

[Stripes B and W]

I think there are 3 key areas that are crucial to success that are to a large degree controllable to a club. The draft , salary cap, no development zones etc etc means we are limited by the structure of the games administration in lots of ways.

As has been mentioned, the Sports science/Medical area. WE can spend what we like and the ideal here in lengthening careers of players we want to continue and maximising games available. I am a huge fan of being ahead of the game on preventable soft tissue injury ( as Per KM comments on the Suns ) and also other measurable indications of general fatigue ( through blood testing). The hope is you detect a 'weakness' before it turns into a LTI. Additionally, i am certain the game can improve on recovery and then subsequent preparation.
I'd also love to be able to minimise /eliminate any injury resulting from training which by definition has to be much more preventable that that from a game
These initiatives are all expensive and professional staff rich.

Second area is who we get to the club, and how their potential and capability is nurtured. You simply cannot have enough top line recruiters and development staff. For mine this is a limitless budget, we spend all we have available to spend, ( so not to turn a profit into a loss of course!)

The final area in initiatives in game style. There is absolutely no doubt that recent developments in the game, zoning, floods, presses etc have contributed to clubs winning premierships. I'll classify this as a general 'coaching' area. We need to ensure we have the coaches at the organisation that can develop, refine and implement the game style that will bring success. Coaches who are ahead of the game not limiting ourselves to matching, for example, Hawks and Swans. This is very difficult to do, expensive, requires huge investment in time to trial any game plan chamges, technology to assess and measure improvement as well as complete buy in from the playing group.

I'm certain there are other areas but if any club were to genuinely improve the above three areas they would advance their cause toward winning premierships.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Great thread Markfs

A few ideas ...

(1) Expand our Sports Science PhD program. To my knowledge we presently have only the one PhD student. I don't know how it's working out, but it's probably difficult to tell with such a small sample size. I reckon we should look at slowly ramping this up. Perhaps expand the program to include more supervisors (presently we only have Butters) and get some research assistants. It's a very long term proposition, but it would allow Collingwood to generate its own research and be best appraised of industry developments.

(2) Further embrace technology - look at expanding our technology department. GPS trackers are standard fare for even hobby fitness enthusiasts these days. Where is the next technology frontier? Have we looked at using body scanners to track muscle development for fitness and recovery? (surprised in this era that the coaching staff and players still refer to "skin folds" - surely better metrics are possible?) Our GPS sets don't work at Etihad when the roof is on - have we looked to see if there is a solution? How much have we embraced image processing for tactical analysis of games? Us supporters don't have any real sense about Collingwood's technology capability, but fair to say that it's an area where we can spend money to get a good edge for winning Premierships.

(3) Build community centres ... Interstate. With our first two (Vic Park and Westpac Centre), we've shown that there is generous government funding available to help build them. They could serve as training and recovery centres for our team to use one or two weeks of the year when they're travelling. For the rest of the year they could serve as a community training centre / a place where recovering players can train to get away from it all / a place where our VFL team can get a taste for interstate travelling and play practice matches against local teams. They could serve as a beacon for support in the city. They could provide any facilities required by our interstate based opposition analysts and recruiters. Importantly, this could help expand Collingwood to be more of a national brand. Of course, it already is a national brand - but I'm not sure that the club does much to foster that. (maybe the club can look at the efforts the Brisbane Bears took to embrace their Fitzroy supporters as a start). Interstate community centres could be a good long term way of further embracing our national brand - but they'd fall under the category of "1 percenters" as far as winning Premiersips is concerned.

(4) Consider fielding a team in one of the interstate competitions (SANFL or NEAFL). It was suggested by some this year that it might be a good idea to have a team in the VFL development league? Maybe it would be a better idea to have another team in a second tier comp rather than a third tier comp. it would expose our junior players to the realities of playing and travelling. It would also give us more options for training players in position. Could also put those interstate community centres (3) to good use. Again, another "1 percenter" as far as winning Premierships is concerned.

 

[Markfs]

Thanks Its a question that came into my head when we got the profit news

Great thread Markfs

.

I think the community centre thing is good to gain access to the funding. However, I'm not sure that the club using it on a casual basis will attract enough attention.

We're a bit constrained by the AFL on what we can do. I would really like to see us run a training course from facilities like the one that you describe but the AFL will probably say butt out..

As for trying to get into SANFL etc. Well I can tell you the Eagles and Dockers cant get into the WAFL and people are supporting them over here....so I dont think the Pies would have a chance in hell.

One last suggestion from me is a pub or similar in each capital city. I know we've had our history with crappy pubs in Melbourne. However, most Pies fans from interstate usually have gatherings at particular pubs. It would tie in well with the Collingwood TV channel that they are talking about. Actually, a TV channel is an excellent thing to invest money. Great for promotion and not too capital intensive...

 

[76woodenspooners]

As for trying to get into SANFL etc. Well I can tell you the Eagles and Dockers cant get into the WAFL and people are supporting them over here....so I dont think the Pies would have a chance in hell.

I don't think the WAFL would be a good idea with it being 5 hours flight and 2 time zones away from HQ.

I think it would be a better idea to go into the NEAFL and the expansion cities of Brisbane or Sydney. I'm a bit biased, but I think Sydney would be a great second base. And I'd imagine the AFL and GWS would be tickle pink if they fielded a phone call from Eddie saying "Hey, mind if we spend some of our profits on raising the profile of AFL in Sydney?"

 

[loki04]

What about medical staff? We could build our own clinic complete with operating theatre, recovery room and wards, and if someone needs a mid season repair we can get the job done and let them recover in an altitude controlled environment?

I'm only half joking, and thats a worry

I wonder if the club could (or in fact does) provide the players with all their dietary and supplementary needs within the constraints of the salary cap?

Could also extend to past players who have issues after playing career due to footy.

Also the major 1 for me is VFL reserves team, I don't see any reason why we aren't fielding one.

 

[loki04]

I've mentioned it in another similar thread a little while ago but I would put the investment into the medical side and I feel this is the area where the greatest stride forward can be made.

I'd look to mimic the Phoenix Suns (NBA) with what they do with their regular muscle measurements checking for any regularities and weaknesses before problems occur. No club in any sport are better at prolonging careers/getting their players to produce deep into the careers and even when taking on injury prone veterans they have been able to suddenly get them healthy and keep them healthy and playing to their best. It's really extraordinary what they do and I'd be looking to implement their practices and do what they do medically.

HGH and Roids can work wonders.... I don't trust any of the pro US sports to be free from performance enhancing drugs or the like.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

The money you spend is completely irrelevant if you have the wrong people in place.

Our money needs to go making 100% sure we have the right people in recruiting and development. That's where it ALL needs to go.

 

[Scodog10]

I don't think the WAFL would be a good idea with it being 5 hours flight and 2 time zones away from HQ.

I think it would be a better idea to go into the NEAFL and the expansion cities of Brisbane or Sydney. I'm a bit biased, but I think Sydney would be a great second base. And I'd imagine the AFL and GWS would be tickle pink if they fielded a phone call from Eddie saying "Hey, mind if we spend some of our profits on raising the profile of AFL in Sydney?"

We tried this with Sydney University a few years back at the height of the NSW scholarship program and while I personally agree that it would be a good idea it was kiboshed pretty quickly by either the AFL or football NSW.

I think Knightmare is on the right track with further medical investment, however I would probably differ in terms of program that we look to emulate if we went down that path. The main reason is that while Basketball is a contact sport AFL is a collision sport so you see more collision style injuries in Aussie Rules than basketball. I would probably look at what the NFL franchises do in treating and preventing collision injuries a team like the Patriots would be a great start IMO. They always seem to get the best out of players and have their full squad available as compared to a team like the Raiders who just seem to suck the life out of even the most talented and durable player.....

I'd also look at what the better soccer clubs do in preventing overuse injuries because they would cover close to similar amounts of ground per match, but also have to deal with the added stress of playing across time zones and off short breaks.

Finally it does go hand in hand with improved medical facilities, but one thing that I believe is a must is an MRI scanner in the rooms at matches. Had we had that this year I have no doubt that Luke Ball would not have gone back out on the ground....

 

[Matz]

i like the idea of following the suns mould but how do you put it forward to the club? send them an email ? acknowledgement that they are atleast looking into it would be nice....

 

[SpongePie]

Put it all on black and double it up!