Remove this Banner Ad

Analysis Where to from here?

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I think you'd clearly still pick Isaac Smith ahead of the options though
 
PhatBoy said:
We led comfortably at half time in a grand final.

I think the idea that last year was just a failure from start to finish because after showing up and making our mark in the last match of the season we were shut down by a great finals player and team, is a little far fetched and Iameviljez pointing out that our approach almost worked is fair, don’t you?
Click to expand...
I think this AND_ROOS summed it up best:
And_ROOS said:
In a compromised season. Where there was a lengthy game between Rd 1 (where we got belted) and Rd 2. In a season that had 17 games. In a season that had significantly shorter quarters.

This list had one chance of a flag under unusual circumstances, it was last year and they lost.

This year is like 2016, or 2017, or 2018, or 2019. You have to have a balance of young kids, guys in the 24/25/26/27 age bracket, and a few guys in the 29/30/31 bracket with the odd mid 30s outlier.

Now look at the age breakdown of the team on Friday. Melbournes key mids were all 24/25/26/27. Ditto the dogs. Ditto the Paer + Boak. We were all in on 29+. Even with Parfitt in, Atkins is 25 but was at a handful of stoppages. Our age distribution in the squad is a ******* mess.

Surely you take a punt on a 24 or 25 year old in the WAFL over an old and largely unsuccessful Higgins. Especially since he offered little all season to justify his recruitment.
Click to expand...

I also think last year flattered us and we got lucky - I've said it so many times we didn't meet richmond till the GF. Considering the 53 point turnaround in that grand final and also it was considerably shortened with the tigers continuing to score deep into the last and I would suggest in a normal year that would have been a very similar result.
 
And_ROOS said:
In a compromised season. Where there was a lengthy game between Rd 1 (where we got belted) and Rd 2. In a season that had 17 games. In a season that had significantly shorter quarters.

This list had one chance of a flag under unusual circumstances, it was last year and they lost.
Click to expand...
I reckon the compromise season didn’t mean that much, we still won our way through to the GF comfortably. The major change was that we played much slower football than Round One.

That said, I think we really went closer in 2019. Blicavs to Lynch in the PF and I think we would have won that game. 2016 we picked an awful game to put in a stinker in the PF, too.

The last decade has shown me one thing: flags are extremely hard to win.
 
someday-somehow said:
I think this AND_ROOS summed it up best:


I also think last year flattered us and we got lucky - I've said it so many times we didn't meet richmond till the GF. Considering the 53 point turnaround in that grand final and also it was considerably shortened with the tigers continuing to score deep into the last and I would suggest in a normal year that would have been a very similar result.
Click to expand...

Everyone played under identical conditions. It wasn’t a two week season. It wasn’t a compromised ‘you guys can play the good teams twice, you guys can play the shit teams twice.’ Many matches were at neutral venues. The early break meant that even richmond and GWS got to prepare better physically than they otherwise would have with a shorter pre-season. It was the most level playing field imaginable. We didn’t ‘get smashed’ by GWS in round one. We lost a game by 32 points where they kicked 17.3 and we kicked 11.7.
It doesn’t diminish from either Richmond winning or us finishing second. Why is it so hard for people to just say ‘ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception’ rather than trying to rewrite history to enhance a narrative that really doesn’t need enhancing?
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

iameviljez said:
I wonder where we’d be if we have put three full-time years into Constable, Fort, Narkle and Clark.

Nothing improves you faster than playing against better players. What does Chook learn from picking up another 40 in the VFL? What does Narkle get out of another 30 and 3 goals? Nothing. They don’t get better, they just rock up, have fun, get frustrated.

If we had put another forty games into all, they wouldn’t necessarily be great - or even very good - but they would be better than they are now. It would have been better to see that than established but limited vets like Bews, Higgins, O’Connor and Stanley having another anonymous game.
Click to expand...
Think you'll find that Narkle would be close to having played more senior football than VFL football and not sure he's actually had too many games with 30 & 3. Would also think that when he's been omitted from the senior side, doubtful it's around his ability to find the ball but rather what he's doing or more so not doing when we don't have the ball - that's what he needs to work on if he wants more regular games

As for Constable, having watched him in a few VFL games this year I can honestly say that after each match I couldn't find a reason to promote him to the senior side. He really wasn't a damaging player regardless of how many possessions he got, I questioned his decision making at times and his lack of run becomes more noticeable the longer games go on
 
PhatBoy said:
Everyone played under identical conditions. It wasn’t a two week season. It wasn’t a compromised ‘you guys can play the good teams twice, you guys can play the sh*t teams twice.’ Many matches were at neutral venues. The early break meant that even richmond and GWS got to prepare better physically than they otherwise would have with a shorter pre-season. It was the most level playing field imaginable. We didn’t ‘get smashed’ by GWS in round one. We lost a game by 32 points where they kicked 17.3 and we kicked 11.7.
It doesn’t diminish from either Richmond winning or us finishing second. Why is it so hard for people to just say ‘ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception’ rather than trying to rewrite history to enhance a narrative that really doesn’t need enhancing?
Click to expand...


ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception.

So you agree with the trend then?
 
PhatBoy said:
Everyone played under identical conditions. It wasn’t a two week season. It wasn’t a compromised ‘you guys can play the good teams twice, you guys can play the sh*t teams twice.’ Many matches were at neutral venues. The early break meant that even richmond and GWS got to prepare better physically than they otherwise would have with a shorter pre-season. It was the most level playing field imaginable. We didn’t ‘get smashed’ by GWS in round one. We lost a game by 32 points where they kicked 17.3 and we kicked 11.7.
It doesn’t diminish from either Richmond winning or us finishing second. Why is it so hard for people to just say ‘ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception’ rather than trying to rewrite history to enhance a narrative that really doesn’t need enhancing?
Click to expand...

One thing which does annoy me re Geel - re some of the games you have mentioned ( and the only excuse is we did play great sides )

You take last years GF - we led by 22 pts ( i actually thought at that point - wet conditions - Cats had a fantastic record at the Gabba etc ) i thought we were nearly home - but look what happened - and look at the final score . The same thing in the 19PF . The 92 GF is another one - 2008 GF is another one . And Frid night even at H/T - i didnt think Geel were totally out of it - but in the 3rd qtr just ripped apart . All those games ive listed ( and there are probably other finals as well ) there hasnt been much resistance from the Cats in the 2nd half
 
someday-somehow said:
ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception.

So you agree with the trend then?
Click to expand...

Yeah I do we continually fall short in the same area. It doesn’t mean that last year gets ignored though. Last year shows there’s some merit in what was being done but also that the method to do it wasn’t implemented well enough or balanced enough. This year more than any other shows that the method was more unbalanced still.

I don’t think you could say that, for example, the prelim smashings against Adelaide and Sydney were age related whereas this one I think that was definitely a huge factor
 
PhatBoy said:
Yeah I do we continually fall short in the same area. It doesn’t mean that last year gets ignored though. Last year shows there’s some merit in what was being done but also that the method to do it wasn’t implemented well enough or balanced enough. This year more than any other shows that the method was more unbalanced still.

I don’t think you could say that, for example, the prelim smashings against Adelaide and Sydney were age related whereas this one I think that was definitely a huge factor
Click to expand...
To me it's the consistency and way we continually lose QFs that we set ourselves up to fail. I'll agree last year we probably kicked ourselves out of it but otherwise it definitely was.
As for last years GF though I still maintain if we met Richmond in the prelim the result would've been the same, the big surprise to me was us beating the Lions in that game - I didn't see that coming.
 
iameviljez said:
The Prelim smashing this year and in 2017 I just chalk up to facing a much better side.
Click to expand...

Well that’s true too but gee it was noticeable on Friday how much Melbourne’s middle just ran in waves. We had no issue winning the ball at stoppages, and Stanley - oddly considering how ridiculously Gawn played - did ok around the stoppages as well. But every time melbourne won it, there were three teammates screaming past for an easy give and away they’d go again, untouched. When danger or Selwood won it they were lucky to have a solitary teammate nearby to receive it. It doesn’t necessarily mean we have to find 4 rolls Royce midfielders to match it but it means we have to find bodies that can at least make those players accountable and we don’t have it at the moment.
 
PhatBoy said:
Well that’s true too but gee it was noticeable on Friday how much Melbourne’s middle just ran in waves. We had no issue winning the ball at stoppages, and Stanley - oddly considering how ridiculously Gawn played - did ok around the stoppages as well. But every time melbourne won it, there were three teammates screaming past for an easy give and away they’d go again, untouched. When danger or Selwood won it they were lucky to have a solitary teammate nearby to receive it. It doesn’t necessarily mean we have to find 4 rolls Royce midfielders to match it but it means we have to find bodies that can at least make those players accountable and we don’t have it at the moment.
Click to expand...
years of playing together and forming a cohesive midfield unit that knows each others game so well. This is a good reason trading for older players doesn't work - not enough time to develop that cohesion.
 
PhatBoy said:
Well that’s true too but gee it was noticeable on Friday how much Melbourne’s middle just ran in waves. We had no issue winning the ball at stoppages, and Stanley - oddly considering how ridiculously Gawn played - did ok around the stoppages as well. But every time melbourne won it, there were three teammates screaming past for an easy give and away they’d go again, untouched. When danger or Selwood won it they were lucky to have a solitary teammate nearby to receive it. It doesn’t necessarily mean we have to find 4 rolls Royce midfielders to match it but it means we have to find bodies that can at least make those players accountable and we don’t have it at the moment.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what I saw too. It let Melbourne handball out the front of contests too, and gave them options so that they felt safe running through the centre. That made a huge difference to Petracca’s game too. Danger had to do it all himself - clearance, evade, burst, deliver. Petracca could focus on the last two.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

someday-somehow said:
years of playing together and forming a cohesive midfield unit that knows each others game so well. This is a good reason trading for older players doesn't work - not enough time to develop that cohesion.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with that either but Dangerfield, Guthrie, Selwood, Menegola and Duncan have been together for a long time too
 
PhatBoy said:
Everyone played under identical conditions. It wasn’t a two week season. It wasn’t a compromised ‘you guys can play the good teams twice, you guys can play the sh*t teams twice.’ Many matches were at neutral venues. The early break meant that even richmond and GWS got to prepare better physically than they otherwise would have with a shorter pre-season. It was the most level playing field imaginable. We didn’t ‘get smashed’ by GWS in round one. We lost a game by 32 points where they kicked 17.3 and we kicked 11.7.
It doesn’t diminish from either Richmond winning or us finishing second. Why is it so hard for people to just say ‘ok well our view is that this is the pattern, with one exception’ rather than trying to rewrite history to enhance a narrative that really doesn’t need enhancing?
Click to expand...

Yes it does.
They probably still win had it been a normal year but they will have an asterisk next to their flag. It's no different to the LA Lakers winning it last year with a shortened season and some playoff teams bemoaning about the situation. You saw what happened to them when the season was back to normality.

It was a compromised season and Richmond will never be in the same conversation as Hawthorn 13-15, Geelong 07-09 or Brisbane 01-03 because of it.
 
Jimmy still have some relevance for us? Shame a few of these guys seem disassociated with the club... but then again we do have several still here.. but I think when Taylor starts saying something .......

www.geelongadvertiser.com.au

No Cookies | Geelong Advertiser

No Cookies
www.geelongadvertiser.com.au www.geelongadvertiser.com.au


Geelong game plan needs to change to compete with best, says Jimmy Bartel
Geelong champion Jimmy Bartel says the Cats ‘can play the exact same way and they will be back in the finals’ next year but unless they change there will be no flag.

GEELONG champions Jimmy Bartel and Harry Taylor have both declared the Cats game plan needs a shake up to stop being a finals punching bag.
Geelong’s 83-point evisceration at the hands of Melbourne on Friday night came after a 43-point loss to Port Adelaide two weeks prior, following a pattern since 2016 of heavy defeats in finals.



GEELONG champions Jimmy Bartel and Harry Taylor have both declared the Cats game plan needs a shake up to stop being a finals punching bag.
Geelong’s 83-point evisceration at the hands of Melbourne on Friday night came after a 43-point loss to Port Adelaide two weeks prior, following a pattern since 2016 of heavy defeats in finals.

Patrick Dangerfield and the Cats were destroyed by Melbourne. Picture: Paul Kane/Getty Images

Patrick Dangerfield and the Cats were destroyed by Melbourne. Picture: Paul Kane/Getty Images
On both occasions Geelong set a new season-low for scoring, kicking a paltry 11 goals combined in the two losses.

In their 10 finals losses over the past six seasons, seven have been by at least 29 points and the Cats hold an average losing margin of 38 points.

Triple-premiership legend Bartel, who the GWS football director, said Geelong’s cautious game style was well suited to get them to finals but didn’t stack up under September heat.

While Bartel only suggested the club needed to “tinker” with its style, “the big question” would be whether this finals series was an aberration and can be easily fixed or a more permeant issue.

AFL Round 22. 17/08/2019. Carlton v St Kilda at the MCG. Jimmy Bartel in the 3AW box

AFL Round 22. 17/08/2019. Carlton v St Kilda at the MCG. Jimmy Bartel in the 3AW box
“They can go and play the exact same way and they will be back in the finals (next year),” Bartel told RSN.

“It all depends on how you want to measure success and I don’t know how the board and the football department and the coaching staff and everyone there measures success (but) they will make finals if they go and play the exact same way.

“You go back to 2016 and if you are wanting to win finals by kicking 40 points, you are going to hope it is raining a lot.”

Taylor, who was speaking during the AFL Premiership Cup Tour in West Australia, said the Cats likely wouldn’t have the chance to made drastic list changes given their older brigade is generally contracted so the only way changes would be in game style.

“I do think they need to go and have a look at the game plan potentially and tinker with a few things,” the two-time premiership defender said.

“It is one of those cases potentially where you can’t go and change your list too much, they (Geelong) don’t have the capabilities to do that and it won’t necessarily help them immediately next year.

“It is important to just maybe try a few different things with the game plan over the pre-season and the off-season and front up and have another crack.”

[PLAYERCARD]Jordan Clark[/PLAYERCARD] has been starved of opportunity. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images

Jordan Clark has been starved of opportunity. Picture: Michael Willson/AFL Photos via Getty Images
Younger players such as Jordan Clark and Quinton Narkle were frozen out of the Cats side at times this year and Bartel said needed to blend the young and old more.

Bartel said the duo could have played in the same side with the majority of the older group to give them a chance to shine.

“Why can’t they play with them? I don’t think it is one or the other,” he said.

“You can have the blend. Why isn’t Jordan Clark part of your back-six mix? You don’t need six players who are all slow with ball in hand and 6”3 on your halfback line.”
 
Poetic Justice said:
Knights down, how many more to go?

Do we actually necessarily need a clean out - or would you feel at least a bit happier if the club/coach openly said "We need to have a massive review. Expect 22 to be markedly different."
Click to expand...
Very happy with this. Our midfield lacks direction at times, and while we have had Knights as MF coach we constantly have players who bomb the ball into the f50. So is that the coaches tactics? Or is that his inability to reign in the players who keep doing it. Either way it falls on the coach for not arresting the issue. I feel we also need to look at a proper forwards coach as well. Enright is a club legend, but just because he knew how to defend against forwards doesn't mean he knows how to implement and create forward channels.

And clearly they don't work together well.

Look at the Bulldogs V Port. Initially I thought the Dogs mids were blindly kicking the ball i50 but watch carefully they ALWAYS go to certain spots. And they ALWAYS have players to contest, and players at the front and back of the packs. And whether it was Bevo or their forwards coach, they identified Aliir as their best intercept forward (something we knew before the game) and had a player who was the right size to match him. Bonus was he hurt them going the other way. Who did we have on Aliir at times? Rohan. Dahlhaus. Close. No wonder Aliir gave them no respect and dropped off.

Would love us to hit up Robert Harvey for a mids coaching role, not that he would, but we definitely need to look at better quality Mid and Forward coaches.
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Where to from here??
Onwards towards 2022.
Simple answer to a silly question.
Too many DOOM & GLOOM FALLING SKY WOLF CALLERS on here for my liking.
So we finished up the 3rd or 4th best team in 2021.
Yes Yes we lost the Prelim to Melb.
But in all seriousness how many thought we'd win?? Not me!! Maybe 10% 20%... thats pretty much sums it up.
Majority on this board without blinkers on would have thought after the loss of Stewart MOC and then Parfitt we were pushing the proverbial shish kebab up hill.
We lost... yes we lost. I really couldn't give a rats if it was by 80 points 50 points or 2 points. same result. people for some reason think coz it was 80 points it somehow means we are at the cliffs edge. I say bollocks!
We were beaten by a better team on the night. Congrats to them, well deserved.
So where do we go from here you ask?
Scotty & Co will go away and start on the tweaking, adjusting, formulating a new strategy of a game plan.
U don't like Scotty u say?? Well bad luck .... he's got another year. If he leaves it will his replacement with his ideas. either way the game plan/s will be different. How much?? How so?? Don't know, we shall see.
What i am sure of is...
They will add most likely 3 extra young ones to the mix and maybe a veteran thru free agency or via trade.
If Clark & Narkle stay under these circumstances great... If not so be it. We move on.
The likes of Krueger, SDK, Stephens, Stevens, Evans & even Okunbor will get plenty of looks along with maybe 1 or 2 we bring in through the draft.
What i'd like to see is us 2 target a mid or two in the free agent market or via trade as that's where games are won and lost IMO.
FWIW the name Paddy DOW has been mentioned to me a few times... but take that as u will.
Anyway... Are we a basket case??
NO! Far from it.
The haters are doing a great PILE ON at the moment through various media platforms. Great. Good on them. That'll give us more motivation.
Our 3 days of mourning is over.
Move On.
Cheers & GO CATS!
 
The first round of player cuts incoming

Krockfootball.com.au understands former Adelaide star Josh Jenkins, young forward Ben Jarvis, and the uncapped Cam Taheny won’t be offered a contract for 2022.
Click to expand...

 
catscollector said:
Yes it does.
They probably still win had it been a normal year but they will have an asterisk next to their flag. It's no different to the LA Lakers winning it last year with a shortened season and some playoff teams bemoaning about the situation. You saw what happened to them when the season was back to normality.

It was a compromised season and Richmond will never be in the same conversation as Hawthorn 13-15, Geelong 07-09 or Brisbane 01-03 because of it.
Click to expand...

No they won’t. Using that logic hawthorn’s flags from the 80s have an asterisk because there was no interstate travel and 6 less teams to compete with. Every club said that last year was the most difficult season they’ve encountered so im prepared to back them over you. Richmond won, good luck to them they deserved it
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Remove this Banner Ad

Similar threads

newcs
  • Locked
Good luck getting to the game from Melbourne. V/Line and VicRoads are at it again.
Replies
1
Views
594
cats_09
cats_09
dazbroncos
Review Cats take THE RIVALRY from the Hawks again with 51 point win
17 18 19 20 21
Replies
503
Views
19K
Spearman
Spearman
cats_09
Toast 150 Games - Tom Atkins
Replies
9
Views
633
cats_09
cats_09
cats_09
List Mgmt. Lawson Humphries contract extension through to 2028
Replies
14
Views
862
Balardong
B
Geminicatz01
Tom Lonergan
Replies
24
Views
1K
Romeoh1
R
The rabbi
News Former Cats President, Craig Drummond, endorsed to join the AFL Commission
Replies
7
Views
644
catscratchfever
catscratchfever
dazbroncos
Autopsy Cats lose to Lions by 47 odd in GF
61 62 63 64 65
Replies
2K
Views
72K
cats_09
cats_09

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top