Analysis Where we went wrong

[OhDustinMartin]

Back in 2013, our footy was very, very good and very, very fast. We would run off halfback, through the midfield and into the forward line with breathtaking pace. Guys like Houli, Ellis, Deledio, Martin and Edwards (I've probably missed a few) would run opponents of their feet.
But we lost that final to Carlton, and the plan was abruptly scrapped.
Looking at the Dogs' emotional win on the weekend, and particularly their run and inside scrap, I reckon that we might be better off adopting that style of play or bringing it back from 2013. We still have the players to run, in Houli, Yarran, Ellis, Short, Markov and Rioli, the inside/outside players like Dusty, Lids, Shedda and Grigg and the inside grunt of Cotch, Miles and now I suppose Prestia.
And that group, when you add Jack, Rancey, Dyls, Lloydy, Griff, Vlas, Hamma etc, look really good if you tell them to run their guts out.

Just an idea.

 

[tunksy]

We have been asking why we havent done this for ages

 

[Tiges1229]

Back in 2013, our footy was very, very good and very, very fast. We would run off halfback, through the midfield and into the forward line with breathtaking pace. Guys like Houli, Ellis, Deledio, Martin and Edwards (I've probably missed a few) would run opponents of their feet.
But we lost that final to Carlton, and the plan was abruptly scrapped.
Looking at the Dogs' emotional win on the weekend, and particularly their run and inside scrap, I reckon that we might be better off adopting that style of play or bringing it back from 2013. We still have the players to run, in Houli, Yarran, Ellis, Short, Markov and Rioli, the inside/outside players like Dusty, Lids, Shedda and Grigg and the inside grunt of Cotch, Miles and now I suppose Prestia.
And that group, when you add Jack, Rancey, Dyls, Lloydy, Griff, Vlas, Hamma etc, look really good if you tell them to run their guts out.

Just an idea.

Do the players believe though thats the question ? I don't think they do anymore, cooked (mentally shot) after the EF loss against the roos..

 

[exceptional design]

We went wrong in the preseason after the 2013 EF loss to Carlton.
This current rubbish game style 1st appeared in the first NAB cup match vs Melb 2014.

The players are still capable of the 2013 game style as seen in some games in 2016. But have been coached a different way.

Instead of just getting better at the 2013 plan with natural maturity (ala Bulldogs), we went more defensive, less spread, less running off their man, less 45° attack across the ground (Giants now, it was probably Cameron's game plan anyway), less speed going forward, more forward line congestion, less tackling, more corralling, more short kicking, more short handballs, less scores from clearances, an extra tall in the forward line to bomb to, FF no longer playing the majority at FF, etc, etc, overall 4 goals less per game now compared to 2013.

 

[Mr Magic]

Back in 2013, our footy was very, very good and very, very fast. We would run off halfback, through the midfield and into the forward line with breathtaking pace. Guys like Houli, Ellis, Deledio, Martin and Edwards (I've probably missed a few) would run opponents of their feet.
But we lost that final to Carlton, and the plan was abruptly scrapped.
Looking at the Dogs' emotional win on the weekend, and particularly their run and inside scrap, I reckon that we might be better off adopting that style of play or bringing it back from 2013. We still have the players to run, in Houli, Yarran, Ellis, Short, Markov and Rioli, the inside/outside players like Dusty, Lids, Shedda and Grigg and the inside grunt of Cotch, Miles and now I suppose Prestia.
And that group, when you add Jack, Rancey, Dyls, Lloydy, Griff, Vlas, Hamma etc, look really good if you tell them to run their guts out.

Just an idea.

Bulldogs have just proven our strategy was a total f..up!!


Thanks Dan and Blair for f... all!!!!

 

[Tiger Toffee]

We got injuries, we started losing, players lost confidence, the end.

 

[theyellowsash]

Where DIDN'T we go wrong???

 

[CoggaRules]

We got injuries, we started losing, players lost confidence, the end.

You forgot the loss of experience with the retirements of Knights Newman Jackson Pettard and Relton Roberts

 

[Rubber Hips]

DH admitted in the early days he didn't know what he was doing and much of what happened then eg 2013 was simply the players playing on instinct...then DH got involved....end of story

 

[CoggaRules]

DH admitted in the early days he didn't know what he was doing and much of what happened then eg 2013 was simply the players playing on instinct...then DH got involved....end of story

At least we had transparency. Imagine if he didn't admit it. We would still be working out what went wrong

 

[Rubber Hips]

At least we had transparency. Imagine if he didn't admit it. We would still be working out what went wrong

If only they knew...Ernst & Young had to undertake a comprehensive review of the club to tell them what they wanted to hear...mass 'changes' off field in the form of switching roles...so many failed first round draft picks ...yet the real problem is staring them all in the face

 

[partycorolla]

Phew... I was thinking this might not turn into a sack Dimma thread.... FFS, so friggen boring. Get some new hobbies. he is coach until at least the bye.... why not just hope that he, the gameplan and the player's fragile confidence just improve and then if all that doesn't happen, we'll get the panacea of a new coach...

 

[OhDustinMartin]

You forgot the loss of experience with the retirements of Knights Newman Jackson Pettard and Relton Roberts

Ooooooh relton......surely the best recruit in VFL/AFL history??

 

[kiwi babe 9]

Where DIDN'T we go wrong???

Probably a shorter thread lol

 

[shaky]

At first I thought about adding to this conversation, but I think it would be a waste of time with all the negative naysayers.

 

[_Wang_]

#eco

 

[Mr Unbelievable]

Tower of Babel ????

 

[Mr Magic]

Dale Morris v B. Houli

 

[YeOldTiger]

So where to now ? Plan C ? Or back to the future ? I think the trade period/draft and which assistants we employ will tell us a lot.

Everyone will be studying the Dogs, watching the finals replays and wondering if that's how you win a flag. Or was it that the planets just aligned. Their win has thrown conventional thinking on its head.

One thing is for sure. Finals footy hasn't changed. Pressure acts, winning the contested footy, tackling, running your heart out, desperation and keeping the ball in motion goes a long way to winning finals.

There are now two seasons in one effectively. The end of season bye creates a whole new ball game. You could potentially even tweak your game plan through the finals depending on all the variables and win from the bottom half of the eight as we've seen.

Strategists are now more important than ever.

You don't even need a team chock full of talent. You need a team that can get you there. But then have a week off, reset and take it to a whole new level.

We have the cattle to implement a fast, aggressive game style. Just need everyone to buy in and it can turn around quickly.

There's never been a better time to be a Richmond supporter. Lol.

Fascinating times ahead.

 

[Mr Magic]

So where to now ? Plan C ? Or back to the future ? I think the trade period/draft and which assistants we employ will tell us a lot.

Everyone will be studying the Dogs, watching the finals replays and wondering if that's how you win a flag. Or was it that the planets just aligned. Their win has thrown conventional thinking on its head.

One thing is for sure. Finals footy hasn't changed. Pressure acts, winning the contested footy, tackling, running your heart out, desperation and keeping the ball in motion goes a long way to winning finals.

There are now two seasons in one effectively. The end of season bye creates a whole new ball game. You could potentially even tweak your game plan through the finals depending on all the variables and win from the bottom half of the eight as we've seen.

Strategists are now more important than ever.

You don't even need a team chock full of talent. You need a team that can get you there. But then have a week off, reset and take it to a whole new level.

We have the cattle to implement a fast, aggressive game style. Just need everyone to buy in and it can turn around quickly.

There's never been a better time to be a Richmond supporter. Lol.

Fascinating times ahead.

We don't have the cattle, Bulldogs won reserves and firsts etc... Its like North all over again and GWS is there as well.

If people think RFC have the cattle they are on drugs at that Forest club in Melbourne!!

 

[ARES]

Just watch the game against the Swans at the G this year...

That is the style we want, high tempo and forward movement. I've seen us use the ball well when we are confident and playing positive football

In WA against Freo last year when we blew them out of the water, fast aggressive football
Against the Hawks last year when we blew them away in the first quarter, fast aggressive football

Fast football into our forward line and we give our forwards every chance not to be "ganged up on by defenders"! Yet with DH's prehistoric game plan, we take so long to get the ball in there, that the result is, no space where our forwards can run into and when they don't perform in those circumstances, they get bagged

DH, just step back and let the guys play their game, believe it or not, they bloody well can

 

[YeOldTiger]

We don't have the cattle, Bulldogs won reserves and firsts etc... Its like North all over again and GWS is there as well.

If people think RFC have the cattle they are on drugs at that Forest club in Melbourne!!

We'll a bunch of relative no names just won the flag so I'll have whatever I'm having tvm.

 

[Livonski]

Just watch the game against the Swans at the G this year...

That is the style we want, high tempo and forward movement. I've seen us use the ball well when we are confident and playing positive football

In WA against Freo last year when we blew them out of the water, fast aggressive football
Against the Hawks last year when we blew them away in the first quarter, fast aggressive football

Fast football into our forward line and we give our forwards every chance not to be "ganged up on by defenders"! Yet with DH's prehistoric game plan, we take so long to get the ball in there, that the result is, no space where our forwards can run into and when they don't perform in those circumstances, they get bagged

DH, just step back and let the guys play their game, believe it or not, they bloody well can

Those games you quoted...it was Hardwicks game plan then too. This is what I don't get. It's the same structure, same coaching style.
So what is the factor that makes it great one week and shit the next?

 

[RogerDean]

I think we failed to see the writing on the wall after Port jumped everyone in 2014, then Footscray tweaked that style in 2015. It looked to me like we were trying to consolidate the Weagles Web style of play and we drafted a handful of in and under types to help out Cotchin etc, as well as some lively link up players like C.Ellis, Rioli etc. Unfortunately the in-and-under players like Miles are as slow as wet weeks and lack penetration when they get the ball...they are just not damaging enough, and our link up players haven't stood up as yet. And our game plan is too easy to match up...block us in, wait for Hunt or Grimes to get hold of the ball and pressure them into switching play across the corridor and bingo...turn-over! Or wait while we try to edge down the boundary line until we panic as the line gets closer and bingo...over the line the ball goes. Let us take possession and tempt us into taking up the 'new' ten metre space around the kicker and head to the corridor only to find all our forwards are up on the wings and there's no-one up forward to go to.
It used to be Martin.There was a time just a few seasons back when Dustin Martin was touted as the deadliest man-on-man forward in the league but for some reason, that's gone out the door. We also have a Coleman medallist who is forced into a role that doesn't give us a lot...look at the other teams with decent key forwards, like say Kennedy. They are goal kickers....we've got a class act in Reiwoldt yet we have squandered his talents.
Remember the tag line when Hardwick took over...'when its your turn to go, you go!' Well, we don't.
There is no way we could have matched either the Swans nor the Bulldogs in attacking the ball or the opponent during that grand final.
I don't think there are a lot of teams, who when they know that they are playing the Tigers in the next round would be quaking in their boots.
We don't apply physical pressure, and we have a game plan that could be picked apart by any coach without too much trouble.

 

[exceptional design]

We'll a bunch of relative no names just won the flag so I'll have whatever I'm having tvm.

Agree.

We do have the cattle. They all have 2 arms, 2 legs etc. They can all mark, kick, handball, run.
They are all talented. They would not get to this level if they weren't.
They all learnt through juniors to follow the Coaches instructions. They would not have got a game, and would not have got any where near the level if they didn't.

THE DIFFERENCE is what we are asking them to do (i.e coaching)
To suggest that it is the players fault, is to suggest that the players go out to deliberately disobey what they are being coached to do.
To suggest that they are not fit enough, again comes down to the coaching, or the players cheating at training.
One year not fit enough at the start maybe fitness, but not 3 years in a row, especially when we were one of the hardest running sides in 2013.

Coach them to tackle and they will tackle. Coach them to keep the forward line open and lead up and they will. Coach them to run hard both ways and they will. Coach them to over lap and spread when we have the ball and they will.

Coach them to do the opposite and they will.

We can get what ever doozy's we are lucky enough to get from other sides this trade period. It doesn't mean that they will make us better.
The only thing that will matter is what they are told to do (Coaching or lack of it)!