Analysis Where we went wrong

[Achilles Heel]

Agree.

We do have the cattle. They all have 2 arms, 2 legs etc. They can all mark, kick, handball, run.
They are all talented. They would not get to this level if they weren't.
They all learnt through juniors to follow the Coaches instructions. They would not have got a game, and would not have got any where near the level if they didn't.

THE DIFFERENCE is what we are asking them to do (i.e coaching)
To suggest that it is the players fault, is to suggest that the players go out to deliberately disobey what they are being coached to do.
To suggest that they are not fit enough, again comes down to the coaching, or the players cheating at training.
One year not fit enough at the start maybe fitness, but not 3 years in a row, especially when we were one of the hardest running sides in 2013.

Coach them to tackle and they will tackle. Coach them to keep the forward line open and lead up and they will. Coach them to run hard both ways and they will. Coach them to over lap and spread when we have the ball and they will.

Coach them to do the opposite and they will.

We can get what ever doozy's we are lucky enough to get from other sides this trade period. It doesn't mean that they will make us better.
The only thing that will matter is what they are told to do (Coaching or lack of it)!

Great post, the players can play they are programmed to follow the caches instruction,

The club is playing musical chairs, when the music stops Hardwick is the man left standing, should be out but in tigerland these rules don't apply, everyone else us out but Dimma gets a free ride

 

[Livonski]

Another attack the coach thread. Think of a new idea, add something new to the discussion.
Rolling out the coach is shit for the millionth time says more about the poster than anything else.

 

[Sassafras]

Ooooooh relton......surely the best recruit in VFL/AFL history??

You leave The Relt out of this. Greatest AFL/VFL player ever.

 

[TigerImposter]

I think we failed to see the writing on the wall after Port jumped everyone in 2014, then Footscray tweaked that style in 2015. It looked to me like we were trying to consolidate the Weagles Web style of play and we drafted a handful of in and under types to help out Cotchin etc, as well as some lively link up players like C.Ellis, Rioli etc. Unfortunately the in-and-under players like Miles are as slow as wet weeks and lack penetration when they get the ball...they are just not damaging enough, and our link up players haven't stood up as yet. And our game plan is too easy to match up...block us in, wait for Hunt or Grimes to get hold of the ball and pressure them into switching play across the corridor and bingo...turn-over! Or wait while we try to edge down the boundary line until we panic as the line gets closer and bingo...over the line the ball goes. Let us take possession and tempt us into taking up the 'new' ten metre space around the kicker and head to the corridor only to find all our forwards are up on the wings and there's no-one up forward to go to.
It used to be Martin.There was a time just a few seasons back when Dustin Martin was touted as the deadliest man-on-man forward in the league but for some reason, that's gone out the door. We also have a Coleman medallist who is forced into a role that doesn't give us a lot...look at the other teams with decent key forwards, like say Kennedy. They are goal kickers....we've got a class act in Reiwoldt yet we have squandered his talents.
Remember the tag line when Hardwick took over...'when its your turn to go, you go!' Well, we don't.
There is no way we could have matched either the Swans nor the Bulldogs in attacking the ball or the opponent during that grand final.
I don't think there are a lot of teams, who when they know that they are playing the Tigers in the next round would be quaking in their boots.
We don't apply physical pressure, and we have a game plan that could be picked apart by any coach without too much trouble.

Great post CP.

 

[Mr Magic]

We'll a bunch of relative no names just won the flag so I'll have whatever I'm having tvm.

There are no no names at the Bulldogs.

Caleb Daniel is classier than Prestia for starters, Dunkley higher rated phantom pick than Rioli, Boyd, Murphy injuried, Boyd no. 1 draft pick, Bontempelli, The package, Picken plays with more soul than any of our players, Hunter is better than most of ours, Dickson is as good a forward as any, Clay Smith is a gun, Dalhalus is very good, Cordy even did a few good things, Hamling looks to be on the rise, then there is Macrae, Johnansen, Morris etc..Libba is better than his old man to and others like Crameri are not even playing yet!! Mclean is very good and is a clear talent showing more than the likes of Ellis so far!!

Guys like Houli, Grigg and others would not get a look in!!!

 

[tigerz18]

Where have we gone wrong?

How about a game style that based around corralling a player instead of tackling him.
a game style where our best forward for the last 30 years has been instructed to play as a winger.
then you talk about a free flowing game style that was converted to a chip and slow possession based plan.
a complete lack of knowledge of forwards and where to run
absolutely 0 run and spread from midfielders.
a fitness and strength regime that is laughable compared to the rest of the competition.
a recruiting and list management team that cannot make our club marketable for good players from other teams to want to come to, nor draft anything other than "running half back flanks"
useless line coaches who have not taught our player very much.
medical staff who cannot keep our youngsters on the field.

has that helped?

 

[Tiger71]

Those games you quoted...it was Hardwicks game plan then too. This is what I don't get. It's the same structure, same coaching style.
So what is the factor that makes it great one week and shit the next?

Lack of accountability imo

When a core player does not perform or does not chase or apply pressure, they are not dropped. So they grow into comfortable safe footy so they don't need to work to hard and the coaches let them get away with it.

Make no mistake, consistency of work rate is a huge issue for us, also not rewarding those players performing well in the VFL.

It can be addressed pretty quickly, it's the reason I do have hope for next year

 

[Spagman]

Yep, that one example of Hardwicks plan squandering Jack's talents is obvious to everyone. Here we have a Coleman medalist that's now kicking under 50 goals a season solely due to decisions the coach has made.

It's &%$*# ridiculous and wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he wanted out. He sticks with RFC to his credit and should be captain.

 

[NaturalDisaster]

Yep, that one example of Hardwicks plan squandering Jack's talents is obvious to everyone. Here we have a Coleman medalist that's now kicking under 50 goals a season solely due to decisions the coach has made.

It's &%$*# ridiculous and wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he wanted out. He sticks with RFC to his credit and should be captain.

Hardwick isn't the only coach that does this.

Buddy would have won the Coleman had he not been sent up the ground

And if Jack did sook bout this (he has actually stated he enjoys venturing up the ground) maybe old cousin Nick needs to give him a slap and say"hey Richo plays me up the ground and you don't see me complaining"

Btw I'm nit saying Hardwick doesn't deserve criticism.. I'm just sick of people insinuating that Hardwick is the only coach who plays forwards upturn ground, Hardwick is the only coach who plays player in different positions.

 

[Lsta062]

My reason is either one of two things:

1. We don't have enough depth to cover up our injuries. We had a decent run in 2013-2015, with the beginning of 2014 being one of the only exceptions in that time.

2. We have good players but not a good system + gameplan. Meaning, we rely (in a way) too much on the talent of the players to compensate for our deficiencies in the gameplan.

Sydney and Bulldogs do have average players here and there. But, they play in such a way that they could take anyone out of their side, plug another one in and their performance doesn't decline by much if at all because their system works and accomodates for lesser skilled players and younger players.

How?
A. Whenever one turns the ball over there is at least 2-4 players waiting to clean up after them at any given time.
B. There are numbers around the contests in which the players do not fear to get tough in.
C. If the ball goes to the opposition, there is a lot of pressure put on the opposition through tackling so they turn the ball over.
D. One percenters. I feel like Bulldogs won the flag based on this alone when watching the game. The guy that is going down in a tackle for instance does whatever he can do to get that ball in a position where his teammate can get possession of it. Rance is amazing at it so imagine if we had a whole team doing this.

Collectively, this is a much easier style that lesser skilled players and youngsters can adapt to.

For us though, our style of play relies too much on the level of talent of the players. We dispose of the ball well, the team does well. We don't and it is turnover that results in a goal against a lot of the time.
A. Relatively little tackling is done (we are in 18th with 104 less tackles than17th-placed Essendon)
B. When a player gets possession, you see players just sitting on their man without trying to shake them off
C. Inexperienced youngsters and less-skilled players are expected to put in effort to help the leadership group out rather than the emphasis being the other way around.

As you can see, it is harder to adapt to our style for the youngsters and the lesser-skilled players. There is a reason why average players win Premierships.

Between reason 1 and 2, I am leaning towards 2 more - the gameplan and system seems to be the weaker link for us (although I do think it is a bit of a mixture of both).

TL;DR - There seems to be an issue in our gameplan and enforced system that weakens our ability to develop players and get the best out of lesser-skilled players, and that is what I think went wrong for Richmond. It isn't specific to this year though.

TL;DR X 2 - I think that the style of play is where a lot of the blame lies.

 

[tigs2010]

Another attack the coach thread. Think of a new idea, add something new to the discussion.
Rolling out the coach is shit for the millionth time says more about the poster than anything else.

Do you just copy and paste this into every thread? Don't think I've seen a post from you outside complaining about coaching threads...

 

[Livonski]

Do you just copy and paste this into every thread? Don't think I've seen a post from you outside complaining about coaching threads...

Not exactly cut and paste, but yes, I've said it a couple of times.

I'm happy for people to disagree, fight my point of view. Absolutely no problem at all, it's a forum after all.

But continually reading the sack/attack Hardwick in every thread is really giving me the shits, not because I disagree, but because it's in every thread and in multiple posts. (like 100s).

So yes, I've said it a few times. My next move will be to log off (probably please a few on here) which would be a little sad for me because I used to enjoy a broad range of banter.

 

[Livonski]

Lack of accountability imo

When a core player does not perform or does not chase or apply pressure, they are not dropped. So they grow into comfortable safe footy so they don't need to work to hard and the coaches let them get away with it.

Make no mistake, consistency of work rate is a huge issue for us, also not rewarding those players performing well in the VFL.

It can be addressed pretty quickly, it's the reason I do have hope for next year

Yep, I reckon that's a factor. To be able to bring a high level of intensity every week is the holy grail. And we didn't have that in 2016, or in many games eg Cats, Dogs..we couldn't sustain for 4 quarters. Partly personnel, partly demographic but not good enough, if agree.

 

[Livonski]

and you know that for sure correct? I mean, all year SFA BS running sideways etc and then something different and then back to shit....makes you wonder who's game plan it was. I know i know, this could turn into another sack the coach thread, which happens when the coach is at the root of our problems, i guess.
But wait, i have worked it out, Hardwick has known forever that he has the game plan that will deliver a dynasty and gave us a glimpse in a game or 2 and then reverted back to nothingness, to enhance our odds and to get a movie made on his triumph over adeversity later, when he surprises the AFL world and proves his detractors wrong....I can even see the movie title...Dimma's Decade.

Correct.

 

[Lsta062]

Lack of accountability imo

When a core player does not perform or does not chase or apply pressure, they are not dropped. So they grow into comfortable safe footy so they don't need to work to hard and the coaches let them get away with it.

Make no mistake, consistency of work rate is a huge issue for us, also not rewarding those players performing well in the VFL.

It can be addressed pretty quickly, it's the reason I do have hope for next year

Definitely. Bulldogs dropped Stringer (one of their best players as recent as last year) the last two weeks of the season and only brought him back in the first week of finals.

We also need to show a high level of standard too.

 

[exceptional design]

A

My reason is either one of two things:

1. We don't have enough depth to cover up our injuries. We had a decent run in 2013-2015, with the beginning of 2014 being one of the only exceptions in that time.

2. We have good players but not a good system + gameplan. Meaning, we rely (in a way) too much on the talent of the players to compensate for our deficiencies in the gameplan.

Sydney and Bulldogs do have average players here and there. But, they play in such a way that they could take anyone out of their side, plug another one in and their performance doesn't decline by much if at all because their system works and accomodates for lesser skilled players and younger players.

How?
A. Whenever one turns the ball over there is at least 2-4 players waiting to clean up after them at any given time.
B. There are numbers around the contests in which the players do not fear to get tough in.
C. If the ball goes to the opposition, there is a lot of pressure put on the opposition through tackling so they turn the ball over.
D. One percenters. I feel like Bulldogs won the flag based on this alone when watching the game. The guy that is going down in a tackle for instance does whatever he can do to get that ball in a position where his teammate can get possession of it. Rance is amazing at it so imagine if we had a whole team doing this.

Collectively, this is a much easier style that lesser skilled players and youngsters can adapt to.

For us though, our style of play relies too much on the level of talent of the players. We dispose of the ball well, the team does well. We don't and it is turnover that results in a goal against a lot of the time.
A. Relatively little tackling is done (we are in 18th with 104 less tackles than17th-placed Essendon)
B. When a player gets possession, you see players just sitting on their man without trying to shake them off
C. Inexperienced youngsters and less-skilled players are expected to put in effort to help the leadership group out rather than the emphasis being the other way around.

As you can see, it is harder to adapt to our style for the youngsters and the lesser-skilled players. There is a reason why average players win Premierships.

Between reason 1 and 2, I am leaning towards 2 more - the gameplan and system seems to be the weaker link for us (although I do think it is a bit of a mixture of both).

TL;DR - There seems to be an issue in our gameplan and enforced system that weakens our ability to develop players and get the best out of lesser-skilled players, and that is what I think went wrong for Richmond. It isn't specific to this year though.

TL;DR X 2 - I think that the style of play is where a lot of the blame lies.

Agree!
Keep the game plans simple so that any new players can understand and perform and suits their skill set.
The same with the one percenters or non negotiables.

Given our lack of experience next year, anything less and we will finish lower again.

 

[Livonski]

Not wanting to argue, but I think you would find similar stuff on the Carlton board before sacking Malthouse, The Brisbane board before sacking Leppitsch, The Richmond board before sacking Wallace, The Melbourne board before sacking Neeld, etc.

Hopefully for one reason or another, things will change here too.

And the Geelong board before NOT sacking Bomber

That's fine, I'll just opt out.

 

[ARES]

Those games you quoted...it was Hardwicks game plan then too. This is what I don't get. It's the same structure, same coaching style.
So what is the factor that makes it great one week and shit the next?

Against Sydney you can see that the players were moving the ball alot quicker and forward. Why? Because before the Sydney game we had our backs to the wall and were fired up, we played positive attacking non stop footy
Against Freo we jumped them and then we all as a team started to believe, played positive forward attacking style

Both times we didn't play negative football, didn't go back in our shells. You could see it in the players, they were determined to win!
We were hungry from onset, when you are hungry you have desire to go for the kill, and we played like that

All that tells me that when we come to play, we can play with the best

But when we don't ie we play DHs negative style, we procrastinate in the back, struggle to overcome a forward press from the opposition. And when we do seem to finally get the ball forward, we have taken so long that the opposition has flooded back, pressed us again ie no room up forward for our forwards and the result is a turnover. The opposition rebound faster with so much space for them to run into.

We need to play angry attacking football, like we own it, like we want it. Belief & Desire to beat all before us

That is why from all the people I have heard talk there is one that I respect a lot. Grant Thomas. He was so good at getting the best out of individuals. he was a talker and people listened. For me he would be the best recruit at RFC, he would get the best out of our players...

Beveridge. The players at Bulldogs listen to him, he gets through to them. FFS he gave them a book, Salty Dog that is a simple book, yet that simple act helped his players believe. He is a motivator, he talks they listen and learn. You need someone to be able to get through to the players, a "spiritual leader" so to speak...

DH, nice guy and that is it...

 

[GN272]

I recall at the end of the of one of the Sydney games (Giants or Swans or probably both) where we had our arses handed to us (both games at the end of the season) Hardwick said in his press conference that the other team is very well coached - well that screams volumes about our coaching

I agree that:

- All players at this level have truck loads of ability - they wouldn't be in a seniors AFL jumper if they didn't; and
- injuries are a random and unpredictable factor which you have no control over. (they effect ALL teams)

The rest comes from coaching and culture;

- Depth of players - (coaching);
- Selection of players at drafts/swaps/trades/off table deals/underhanded deals - (coaching)
- Game plan - (coaching);
- Wining (coaching and culture);
- Off field team cohesion (culture and coaching) - what happens off the field, happens on the field - Ask Warnie about this sometime ... the results speak for themselves.
- Skills enhancement - (coaching)
- Fitness - (Coaching)

The common thread as I see it with our club at the moment is .... coaching.

Hardwick - by his own admission - is that he is not up to the task ....

 

[Achilles Heel]

Yep, that one example of Hardwicks plan squandering Jack's talents is obvious to everyone. Here we have a Coleman medalist that's now kicking under 50 goals a season solely due to decisions the coach has made.

It's &%$*# ridiculous and wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he wanted out. He sticks with RFC to his credit and should be captain.

Dual Coleman Medalist , played on the wing and hbf, if we had Peter Hudson he would be played in the back pocket

 

[Achilles Heel]

I recall at the end of the of one of the Sydney games (Giants or Swans or probably both) where we had our arses handed to us (both games at the end of the season) Hardwick said in his press conference that the other team is very well coached - well that screams volumes about our coaching

I agree that:

- All players at this level have truck loads of ability - they wouldn't be in a seniors AFL jumper if they didn't; and
- injuries are a random and unpredictable factor which you have no control over. (they effect ALL teams)

The rest comes from coaching and culture;

- Depth of players - (coaching);
- Selection of players at drafts/swaps/trades/off table deals/underhanded deals - (coaching)
- Game plan - (coaching);
- Wining (coaching and culture);
- Off field team cohesion (culture and coaching) - what happens off the field, happens on the field - Ask Warnie about this sometime ... the results speak for themselves.
- Skills enhancement - (coaching)
- Fitness - (Coaching)

The common thread as I see it with our club at the moment is .... coaching.

Hardwick - by his own admission - is that he is not up to the task ....

Well thought out , but you need to apportion blame on the supporters, ( not the real supporters that go to the games mind you, just the rest of them)

 

[GN272]

Well thought out , but you need to apportion blame on the supporters, ( not the real supporters that go to the games mind you, just the rest of them)

Sorry mate - I don't understand you thoughts in apportioning blame on the 'non real supporter'.

I live in Sydney - I'm also a financial member of the RFC - unfortunately the RFC doesn't play too many games in Sydney - I travel to Melb at least once a year to go to a game - so am I a real supporter or just one of the rest ?

 

[Achilles Heel]

Sorry mate - I don't understand you thoughts in apportioning blame on the 'non real supporter'.

I live in Sydney - I'm also a financial member of the RFC - unfortunately the RFC doesn't play too many games in Sydney - I travel to Melb at least once a year to go to a game - so am I a real supporter or just one of the rest ?

It's aimed at one of the flower sniffers who says if we don't or can't get to games because we live overseas or interstate we aren't real supporters

 

[TiggerMan22]

DH admitted in the early days he didn't know what he was doing and much of what happened then eg 2013 was simply the players playing on instinct...then DH got involved....end of story

For a good reason. If you remember that year we were very incapable of stopping runs of goals by opponents. It was the big knock on us.

 

[CoggaRules]

For a good reason. If you remember that year we were very incapable of stopping runs of goals by opponents. It was the big knock on us.

as opposed to this year where just about everything is a big knock on us