Scape Goat Whipping Boy #2 Dale Thomas

[therubbernub]

We all know the History of how he landed at the Blues. We all have strong opinions about that period of time with Malthouse and Rogers- all negative to wildly varying degrees. Daisy epitomizes in some peoples minds, all that was wrong with the club at the club before the arrival of BB and SOS.
Is daisy tainted with this negative remembrance, to such a degree that he can do no good in many peoples eyes? Or is he merely not the player he once was - which was a very highly rated one, but he still has something to offer , albeit at a greatly reduced contract?

 

[Jimmae]

I'm somewhere between the bottom two options. He's got his issues but the biggest is by far how much people heap it on him.

He's a flair & confidence player, and I don't think his body has robbed him of a great deal of confidence since after his first year with us, but the crowd and media opinion probably have.

Constructive criticism is fine, but the weekly line of people patting their baseball bats is just dumb and must have a toll.

 

[gandaal]

 

[mediumsizered]

I always find it slightly amusing listening to Carlton supporters at our games. Thomas misses a target or turns the ball over, "you're a spud Thomas", "you're a hack", " piss off Thomas". Cripps, Docherty, Kreuzer, Murphy, Simpson etc etc miss a target or turn the ball over......crickets.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

1 What role does Thomas play? and
2 How do you think he is going?

3 If he is there to tell the kids where to run or position themselves, can Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Rowe, E Curnow, Kreuzer and other players do this without Thomas also doing it?

I apologise to anyone who was offended by my incessant questioning. I have learned my lesson.

I have also resisted as best I can to responding in the post-match thread and to the pre-Port-match thread where others have said we should drop Thomas.


IMO, Thomas played a poor match against Richmond, was average against Melbourne and Essendon, and between poor and average against Gold Coast. He does the odd good thing and matches it with a turnover. He is simply not fast enough to make an impact on a match.

My answers:

1 Thomas role - Thomas plays IMO because he is the best of a bad lot of our more experienced (before. 2015 Draft) fringe players (Palmer, Kerridge, Buckley ...) who will be shown the door at the end of this year. He plays as we cannot play every single first and second year player at once and be competitive. FWIW, Graham could do this role for us better than Thomas.

2 How is Thomas going? - I simply don't know how he is going as an on-field coach, mentor, whatever. As a player on the ground it is very difficult to watch. He tries hard. He cannot run, is a poor kick, some of his handballs miss. He gets maybe 15-18 disposals and around half of them miss the target. If Palmer and Kerridge were dropped after the 1 Essendon game, I cannot understand why Thomas is not similarly dropped.

3 Do we need Thomas to coach on the field when we have other senior players? Quite simply, No.

The responses I got did not actually answer the questions:

- He keeps getting selected so Bolts and the MC know best.
- The player that comes in cannot do Thomas' role.
- He plays a forward or back role.
- He is an extension of the coaching team. Tells the kids where to run and where to position themselves.
- He has footy smarts no one else in our team has.
- We are marking him too hard because of his pay packet and will only be happy if he does the mercurial stuff well, and consistently.
- He played well (Melbourne game post-on-field injury, I think some posters are counting the Essendon game too) or got in our top 10 fantasy points).
- He is the only premiership player in our team and so will give the right answer when Bolts asks a question in the huddle.

So in this thread I say, Thomas can do all the role stuff in our VFL team. Our Senior 22 is better served playing Graham or another youngster like Polson or Cuningham instead of Thomas. Thomas can come in when young players get injuries, are sore and need a rest, along with Buckley, Kerridge, Palmer ...

We will not notice Thomas is missing when he is dropped.

 

[HBF]

Should be dropped this week. I've tried defending this guy, but its just not going to happen anymore. Play Sheehan and Dale can be an on field coach for the NB's.

 

[Navy Blue Blood]

As I said in the autopsy thread, I believe Dale is being kept in the team at this point because we have invested a huge amount of money into him and its in the clubs interest to give him every chance to pull it together before he triggers the contract extension.

If he is not playing at the level his contract justifies at that point I can see them calling time and finishing him off for the year in the NB's. There is no trade value in Daisy so the only way they can try to recoup the investment in him is to play him now and find out once and for all whether there can be improvement back towards the player he used to be.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Never seen a player more cooked at AFL level.
It's sad that his body has let him down, but it has.
Was done before he walked in the door.
If we are the new "Carlton" then this bloke plays the rest of the year in the ressies.
He can add what he adds on the training track.
Last of the Malthouse era reaming goes with him.

If he is as good as what they say he is with his football brain and the young blokes, then he can offer something to the coaching ranks somewhere. Hopefully the karma gods will cut him some slack with this part of his football career.

 

[Foucault1989]

1 What role does Thomas play? and
2 How do you think he is going?

3 If he is there to tell the kids where to run or position themselves, can Murphy, Gibbs, Simpson, Rowe, E Curnow, Kreuzer and other players do this without Thomas also doing it?

I apologise to anyone who was offended by my incessant questioning. I have learned my lesson.

I have also resisted as best I can to responding in the post-match thread and to the pre-Port-match thread where others have said we should drop Thomas.


IMO, Thomas played a poor match against Richmond, was average against Melbourne and Essendon, and between poor and average against Gold Coast. He does the odd good thing and matches it with a turnover. He is simply not fast enough to make an impact on a match.

My answers:

1 Thomas role - Thomas plays IMO because he is the best of a bad lot of our more experienced (before. 2015 Draft) fringe players (Palmer, Kerridge, Buckley ...) who will be shown the door at the end of this year. He plays as we cannot play every single first and second year player at once and be competitive. FWIW, Graham could do this role for us better than Thomas.

2 How is Thomas going? - I simply don't know how he is going as an on-field coach, mentor, whatever. As a player on the ground it is very difficult to watch. He tries hard. He cannot run, is a poor kick, some of his handballs miss. He gets maybe 15-18 disposals and around half of them miss the target. If Palmer and Kerridge were dropped after the 1 Essendon game, I cannot understand why Thomas is not similarly dropped.

3 Do we need Thomas to coach on the field when we have other senior players? Quite simply, No.

The responses I got did not actually answer the questions:

- He keeps getting selected so Bolts and the MC know best.
- The player that comes in cannot do Thomas' role.
- He plays a forward or back role.
- He is an extension of the coaching team. Tells the kids where to run and where to position themselves.
- He has footy smarts no one else in our team has.
- We are marking him too hard because of his pay packet and will only be happy if he does the mercurial stuff well, and consistently.
- He played well (Melbourne game post-on-field injury, I think some posters are counting the Essendon game too) or got in our top 10 fantasy points).
- He is the only premiership player in our team and so will give the right answer when Bolts asks a question in the huddle.

So in this thread I say, Thomas can do all the role stuff in our VFL team. Our Senior 22 is better served playing Graham or another youngster like Polson or Cuningham instead of Thomas. Thomas can come in when young players get injuries, are sore and need a rest, along with Buckley, Kerridge, Palmer ...

We will not notice Thomas is missing when he is dropped.

Agreed with every point 100% he offers very little on field. Graham can at least find the ball 20+ times and his skills are much better than Thomas, Kerridge and Palmer. Lowercase t for time to leave

 

[Navy Blue Blood]

Never seen a player more cooked at AFL level.

I reckon Mick MacGuane was essentially charcoal when we recruited him....

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

I reckon Mick MacGuane was essentially charcoal when we recruited him....

Yep you're right, still went well offf the field though, had a massive night on it with Mick back in the day.

 

[Jeremias]

Clearly not the player he once was - nowhere near it in fact - but I think he can still be of some value going forward.

On a heavily reduced wage, of course.

I have no problem with the club keeping him around next year on 300k or so. But I equally have no problem with them cutting ties completely at the end of this season.

 

[Jabba73]

Mind is willing, body is shot.

Wrap up the chooks Numb3rs, he is done.

 

[ferrisb]

While I have always hated the Thomas 'trade', I have never held it against him personally. There is little doubt he is giving his all; on and off the field.

You can't doubt his integrity as a footballer/leader, but there is now too much doubt about his on-field performance.

I'm not going to focus on individual turnovers, every footballer makes mistakes. But I do think Daisy's kicking is now unacceptably poor.

SOS/Bolts are clearly focused on kicking skills. I don't think they would recruit a draftee with his current skills. I don't think they would trade/recruit a 29/30 FA with his current skills. So that tells me that his contract probably shouldn't be extended and arguably he shouldn't be played any more either.

I like what he brings to the club from a leadership, professionalism and personality perspective. So I'd love the club to find him a role in the football department. But his days on the field are numbered.

 

[GoBlues!]

I always find it slightly amusing listening to Carlton supporters at our games. Thomas misses a target or turns the ball over, "you're a spud Thomas", "you're a hack", " piss off Thomas". Cripps, Docherty, Kreuzer, Murphy, Simpson etc etc miss a target or turn the ball over......crickets.

Don't think supporters ever really accepted Thomas from day 1, and losing a gun player like Betts for the sake of $40k a year and paying $700k a year for DT has probably made it worse.

 

[JustaBattler]

Thomas is probably the best call on a player that Buckley has ever made.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Thomas is the elephant in the room - completely cooked.

 

[Soapy V]

Simply cannot be on the list next year. Spots are too valuable and in a rebuild SOS will be looking add around another 8 new young players this year.

I just think Bolton is respecting him and his efforts over the pre season. He has been no better than Kerridge Armfield or Palmer who have been dropped. By mid year I don't expect him to be anywhere near the senior side and once that happens he won't be missed. If the club want to keep him in a development/coaching capacity that is fine but he can't play. Another year and he isn't going to get any better. His body won't let him. His ability was based on agility and some real energy around the ground. That has gone and defensively he is a liability. Even at the moment he is taking the space of a kid or a Graham Buckley Sheehan or Gallucci. These guys are now pushing for spots and deserve a go as much or probably more.

The club and his management also need to come up with an agreement to finish at the end of the year so discussion doesn't drag on.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Whilst I think he's done, he may get a small contract next year which wouldn't upset me. I do have an odd kind of respect for him founded in his work ethic. Just turns up and tries bloody hard for a supporter base that clearly doesn't like him much. Could've cruised and stopped trying Long ago. Genuinely did all he could to succeed here. Cheers daisy.

 

[Soapy V]

Don't think supporters ever really accepted Thomas from day 1, and losing a gun player like Betts for the sake of $40k a year and paying $700k a year for DT has probably made it worse.

Doesn't help but not the reason he needs to go. Just not up to it anymore

 

[StandByyourMan]

Doesn't help but not the reason he needs to go. Just not up to it anymore

as I said before - if Malthouse behaved like that in the commercial world he would be doing time right now. Still be locked up.

 

[ShanDog]

When he is on, he plays some good footy and and doesn't look out of place. Unfortunately, most of the time he isn't on, and we already have enough issues with turnovers and poor kicks into F50.

Definitely not a candidate for another contract if he doesn't meet the 15 game trigger and should be replaced in the side as soon as possible.

Cheers for your efforts Daisy. He'll always be someone who pulled on the Carlton jumper and gave 100%, so gets my respect.

 

[Soapy V]

Cheers for your efforts Daisy. He'll always be someone who pulled on the Carlton jumper and gave 100%, so gets my respect.

I'm the opposite. Came for the money and nothing more. Not his fault (I blame Malthouse & McKay) but deal has been a disaster. Never seen him as a true Carlton player. Need to move on so we can forget deal ever happened

 

[Azul]

I always find it slightly amusing listening to Carlton supporters at our games. Thomas misses a target or turns the ball over, "you're a spud Thomas", "you're a hack", " piss off Thomas". Cripps, Docherty, Kreuzer, Murphy, Simpson etc etc miss a target or turn the ball over......crickets.

You obviously never hear me! "pick up a man, Gibbs", " Get a right foot, Simpson"

 

[Azul]

I reckon Mick MacGuane was essentially charcoal when we recruited him....

Mick Martyn, Mick Mansfield - must be something in the name!

Glenn Hawker.