Who do we chase now?

[Whispers]

After losing out on Bradshaw due to re-signing with the Lions and McDougall who is certain to go to the Western Bulldogs, who do we chase now? Do we even bother!? I reckon the only real tall forward up for grabs is Toby Thurstans who needs more time then Nath Ablett and Hawkins to develop still...

What is there to do??

 

[Jack-Packenham]

After losing out on Bradshaw due to re-signing with the Lions and McDougall who is certain to go to the Western Bulldogs, who do we chase now? Do we even bother!? I reckon the only real tall forward up for grabs is Toby Thurstans who needs more time then Nath Ablett and Hawkins to develop still...

What is there to do??

Trade S Johnson for a pick in the 20's and try and trade Playfair, Kingsley & Callan for picks in the 40's or 50's.

Just draft another 6 or 7 kids in the superdraft and take a punt.

 

[baywatch5]

agree.....

Johnson to Bombers for pick 20. and whatever we can get for callan,playfair,kingsley... giving us 7,20,25,T.Hawkins and 2/3 later picks

Depending how trade week pans out but pre season draft could be interesting... possible players: Thornton,Russell,Everitt,soloman,Gardiner and i think kingsley will end up here 2.

If so maybe we could snag and uncontacted player here for nothing. such as soloman????

 

[year of the cat]

agree.....

Johnson to Bombers for pick 20. and whatever we can get for callan,playfair,kingsley... giving us 7,20,25,T.Hawkins and 2/3 later picks

Depending how trade week pans out but pre season draft could be interesting... possible players: Thornton,Russell,Everitt,soloman,Gardiner and i think kingsley will end up here 2.

If so maybe we could snag and uncontacted player here for nothing. such as soloman????

Sounds good to me - if SJ's ankles are not going to withstand the rigors of AFL then we should trade him whilst he still has some currency. A no.20 pick will allow us to get a quick midfielder that we so badly need. Lets go to the draft - it is after all meant to be one of the best ones ever.

 

[Traffic Light]

Trade S Johnson for a pick in the 20's and try and trade Playfair, Kingsley & Callan for picks in the 40's or 50's.

Just draft another 6 or 7 kids in the superdraft and take a punt.

I have it on good authority your job is in jeopardy from spending too much time on bigfooty

 

[volcboy]

Personally, I can't see how trading players in their early 20's for picks in the draft outside the top 20 is going to help us. If the quality players available for trading are gone (as they are now IMO - I don't class Tarrant as quality), then we should just use the picks that we have and make the best changes we can off the field to improve in 2007.

 

[Partridge]

Personally, I can't see how trading players in their early 20's for picks in the draft outside the top 20 is going to help us. If the quality players available for trading are gone (as they are now IMO - I don't class Tarrant as quality), then we should just use the picks that we have and make the best changes we can off the field to improve in 2007.

I'm a bit that way too. I get really sick of hearing about this "superdraft". Because the last time that term was used was 2001, and most of the players we recruited in that year are either crap or being traded (S.Johnson, Gardiner, McCarthy, Playfair, Kelly). So everyone thinks draft a quick midfielder and that will make a difference next year? Like Varcoe, whoever we get probably won't play a game. Hawkins maybe will be the exception.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

I don't think it is strictly about next year. Change starts with turning the list over, well now that we've stupidly kept all the backroom staff save for Lovell anyway, and unless you are willing to trade for hacks like McDougall and Medhurst the draft is the place to do this. I get sick of people talking up this draft as well, it is nonsense the way it is seen as the answer to all our and every other club's problems, but if you want to swing the axe and cut out the dead wood you need to position yourself in the draft, and this goes for any year not just for so called superdrafts like this year, to give yourself the best chance of replacing the delisted players with a better alternative. That might mean taking a risk and cutting loose a player with baggage like SJ or Kelly for a top 20 pick.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

I have it on good authority your job is in jeopardy from spending too much time on bigfooty

I will be happy to take a pay cut and be the general manager of football operations at Geelong.

 

[Mr Sensitive]

i really don't see the point of trading just for trading's sake as Jack seems to advocate. We've missed out on a quality player in Bradshaw, but that doesn't mean we should just trade players willy nilly to compensate. Getting rid of playfair and Callan for picks around 40-50 is way off the mark.
Callan is a good depth player and pushes for a spot in the 22, while with Lonergan most likely retiring, Playfair will still be needed as a back up. Basically you're just advocating change for change's sake.
Perhaps it would be worthwhile to trade one of these players, but to turn over a substantial part of the list (playfair, S.Johnson and Callan) in return for late draft picks makes no sense.

 

[catempire]

The problem with our list as it stands is that it is in limbo.

Bomber Thompson is coaching for his career next year. No one can deny this. He cannot afford to make wholesale changes that would lead to a significant reduction in the chances he can launch a tilt at the flag in 2007. So he cannot afford to make tough decisions on players like Kelly. He has to take a punt that players like Kelly will come good for him. Having a raw 18 year old kid in Kelly’s place will do nothing for Bomber in 2007.

By delisting and trading away players and drafting in 5, 6, or 7 kids you are effectively saying, we can’t win the flag in the next 2-3 years, let’s look to the future. BT doesn’t have this luxury.

If 2007 is a failure, expect a massive cleanout. I would think we could expect as many as 10 changes to the list at the end of next season if it is not a success.

For the moment, there’s just no way we’re going to see wholesale changes because there’s too much at stake for the man in charge.

 

[Whispers]

The problem with our list as it stands is that it is in limbo.

Bomber Thompson is coaching for his career next year. No one can deny this. He cannot afford to make wholesale changes that would lead to a significant reduction in the chances he can launch a tilt at the flag in 2007. So he cannot afford to make tough decisions on players like Kelly. He has to take a punt that players like Kelly will come good for him. Having a raw 18 year old kid in Kelly’s place will do nothing for Bomber in 2007.

By delisting and trading away players and drafting in 5, 6, or 7 kids you are effectively saying, we can’t win the flag in the next 2-3 years, let’s look to the future. BT doesn’t have this luxury.

If 2007 is a failure, expect a massive cleanout. I would think we could expect as many as 10 changes to the list at the end of next season if it is not a success.

For the moment, there’s just no way we’re going to see wholesale changes because there’s too much at stake for the man in charge.

How long has Bomber been at the club for? Was he or Ayres who drafted th 7 players in 99, along with getting Cam Mooney in the trade??

 

[catempire]

How long has Bomber been at the club for? Was he or Ayres who drafted th 7 players in 99, along with getting Cam Mooney in the trade??

That was BT.

 

[Partridge]

Bomber Thompson is coaching for his career next year. No one can deny this. He cannot afford to make wholesale changes that would lead to a significant reduction in the chances he can launch a tilt at the flag in 2007. So he cannot afford to make tough decisions on players like Kelly. He has to take a punt that players like Kelly will come good for him. Having a raw 18 year old kid in Kelly’s place will do nothing for Bomber in 2007.

I disagree. Good coaches - and good leaders for that matter - are prepared to make tough decisions. Thompson isn't. Kelly isn't worth a sack of sh*te at the moment. There are plenty of guys I'd promote in his place - Tenace or Prismall come immediately to mind. Tenace has had 3 years so he should be ready, Prismall looks terrific even at this stage. Both are improvements on Kelly - especially in the pace department. It won't be an 18 year old that takes his spot.

 

[Rosella]

I'm going to agree with trading for trading's sake is a waste. Also the talk of this year's "super draft" - there is undoubtedly some to be quality in the top 10-12 but no one is saying there's a huge depth. I would not let Johnson go for a worse pick than 20, certainly not Collingwood's 28. Get what you can Callan, etc, but if not for nothing.

 

[Jack-Packenham]

By delisting and trading away players and drafting in 5, 6, or 7 kids you are effectively saying, we can’t win the flag in the next 2-3 years, let’s look to the future. BT doesn’t have this luxury.

Rubbish. To say losing Playfair, Callan, Koulouriotis, Lonergan, Riccardi, Kingsley & McCarthy would give us no hope of winning a flag in the next 2-3 is crap. None of those guys are currently in our best 22 and if we could snare 3 or 4 players for the future with our draft picks then we are better off.

 

[Unwritten_Law]

Exactly right Catempire.

Bomber is going to side with experience and we will be going into 2007 with the same theoretical 'best 22' as we had this year.

So he cannot afford to make tough decisions on players like Kelly. He has to take a punt that players like Kelly will come good for him. Having a raw 18 year old kid in Kelly’s place will do nothing for Bomber in 2007.

A point on this that I was going to make above and forgot to add was that if Kelly was traded for pick 20 the kid that you draft would not be the one added to the team in 07. That position would go to a Prismall, Stokes or possibly Gamble depending on VFL performances. It's called list progression and at the moment we don't have it. Our team is locked in and really apart from Matty Egan no one else drafted since 01 has been able to force their way into the AFL side as Thompson picks favourites and selects on past performances rather than form.

 

[catempire]

I disagree. Good coaches - and good leaders for that matter - are prepared to make tough decisions. Thompson isn't.

In this situation - i.e. 1 year left on his contract and got through a review by the skin of his teeth - it's not about whether or not he's a good coach. It's about making decisions that focus only on next year rather than the next 2-10 years.

Kelly isn't worth a sack of sh*te at the moment. There are plenty of guys I'd promote in his place - Tenace or Prismall come immediately to mind. Tenace has had 3 years so he should be ready, Prismall looks terrific even at this stage. Both are improvements on Kelly - especially in the pace department. It won't be an 18 year old that takes his spot.

Maybe so, but you've missed the point. Thompson must take the punt that Kelly will return to form because Kelly of 2005 and pre-leg-break was clearly better than Prismall or Tenace have performed to date. Throwing Prismall or Tenace into the midfield is not going to give him a very good shot at the flag (or the top 4 for that matter) at all.

Rubbish. To say losing Playfair, Callan, Koulouriotis, Lonergan, Riccardi, Kingsley & McCarthy would give us no hope of winning a flag in the next 2-3 is crap. None of those guys are currently in our best 22 and if we could snare 3 or 4 players for the future with our draft picks then we are better off.

As usual you've missed the point. Bomber is coaching for 2007, not the "future". You suggested trading SJ for a pick in the 20s. That trade could never benefit the team until years down the track when Bomber in all likelihood will be gone. There's no incentive for him to do that.

 

[Traffic Light]

I will be happy to take a pay cut and be the general manager of football operations at Geelong.

All they need is your signature and it's done

 

[nananana catman]

In this situation - i.e. 1 year left on his contract and got through a review by the skin of his teeth - it's not about whether or not he's a good coach. It's about making decisions that focus only on next year rather than the next 2-10 years.



Maybe so, but you've missed the point. Thompson must take the punt that Kelly will return to form because Kelly of 2005 and pre-leg-break was clearly better than Prismall or Tenace have performed to date. Throwing Prismall or Tenace into the midfield is not going to give him a very good shot at the flag (or the top 4 for that matter) at all.



As usueal you've missed the point. Bomber is coaching for 2007, not the "future".

Well he isnt going to use our early picks on seasoned veterans is he?

 

[Jack-Packenham]

As usueal you've missed the point. Bomber is coaching for 2007, not the "future".

So what does Playfair, Koulouriotis, Lonergan, Kingsley, McCarthy, Riccardi and Callan offer us for 2007. Zip, nothing, zero.

You may have missed the point empire, these guys are not in our best side for 2007 so it shouldn't effect Bombers attempts at being succesful. If we do get injuries we can use guys like Spencer, Byrnes, Gamble, Varcoe, Blake, Grima, Stokes etc who are no worse than the 7 I mentioned.

 

[catempire]

Well he isnt going to use our early picks on seasoned veterans is he?

Your point?

 

[nananana catman]

Your point?

Even though his job is on the line in 2007 he will still draft kids...

 

[catempire]

So what does Playfair, Koulouriotis, Lonergan, Kingsley, McCarthy, Riccardi and Callan offer us for 2007. Zip, nothing, zero.

You may have missed the point empire, these guys are not in our best side for 2007 so it shouldn't effect Bombers attempts at being succesful. If we do get injuries we can use guys like Spencer, Byrnes, Gamble, Varcoe, Blake, Grima, Stokes etc who are no worse than the 7 I mentioned.

I haven't missed any point. You said to trade Steve Johnson. Others have suggested Kelly should be traded. I explained why Bomber has an incentive not to trade players who will be more value to the side next season than the picks they will be traded for.

FWIW, Koula, Kingsley, McCarthy and Riccardi are gone anyway, so I don't know why you are bringing them up. Playfair and Callan could play senior footy in 2007 for the club. None of the players you mentioned as their replacements play in the positions that these two play.

 

[catempire]

Even though his job is on the line in 2007 he will still draft kids...

I suppose that's why there has been talk about going after the likes of Bradshaw and Medhurst. Trading picks away to get an immediate advantage.

Those trades won't happen now, so the only choice is to draft kids with them.