Who is too blame?

[Riggy1]

I'm not going to come out and blame the normal whipping boys like this board normally does, but actually those at fault for our problem.

Is it David Noble not knowing what the **** he's doing?
Or is it our forwards bar Burton/Walker not presenting?

Our forwards do not present bar Burton/Walker, which forces the midfieders and backman to handball back and forth and left and right. But the few times this year forwards have led and presented to our midfielders we've looked better going forward with a focus, and we're reducing the risk of the turnovers by not over possessing it.

Handballs isn't the problem, they're actually a decent neutraliser for us with the forwards not presenting. If we kick it long to the middle of nowhere, with no forwards leading, with modern day tactics and zoneing, there is a 90% chance it'll come right back in the direction the ball came from, and with our defenders out of position from the turnover, we're ****ed

The cure for this is for the forwards to present an option which allows us to move forward with speed.

We have been seeing poor skills from players such as Edwards, Doughty and Cook. But they're trying to take on numerous players because the forwards arn't giving an option. If they presented, either they would of gotten the ball out to them straight away, or the person that sold Edwards/Doughty/Cook into trouble would of gone in that direction in the first place preventing the **** up.

So my question again.

Is the problem the fact that David Noble isn't instructing our forwards to present?
Or our forwards just arn't presenting?

 

[Cap]

I think its a combination of things... of which i've stated elsewhere

 

[Riggy1]

I think its a combination of things... of which i've stated elsewhere

I just saw that
but I beleive the breakdown of our forwards is leading to a breakdown of the midfield which is leading to our backs been over run

fix the forward line and our gameplan will look differently (because we wouldnt be forced to handball in circles), our turnovers will decrease, and our scoring will improve while we hinder the other teams scoring

 

[Damp Squarie]

Our creative risktaking run has evaporated- No Bock, No Otten and No MacKay ...why not handball it in a circle until we get nailed

 

[Alex99]

I blame Dangerfield. Cannot be Walker, didn't play, cannot be any of the senior players fault or even NC, so it must be Dangerfield.

 

[Cap]

I just saw that
but I beleive the breakdown of our forwards is leading to a breakdown of the midfield which is leading to our backs been over run

fix the forward line and our gameplan will look differently (because we wouldnt be forced to handball in circles), our turnovers will decrease, and our scoring will improve while we hinder the other teams scoring

I think your right, its going to take a while to get the Forwards working..going to be tough

 

[Crowboy#32]

I just wonder how Walker will get the blame for this

 

[Bicks]

A Midfield that is not performing within Coooeee of what they are truly capable of is not helping our forwards, I'd be interested to look at our stats and see if any of our players actually had more kicks than handballs....

 

[WALL-e]

The players aren't running aggressively.

Our game plan requires confidence and aggression, we have neither.

 

[Cap]

I just wonder how Walker will get the blame for this

he didn't run on the ground at half time and get a kick in defence

 

[Elite Crow]

I just saw that
but I beleive the breakdown of our forwards is leading to a breakdown of the midfield which is leading to our backs been over run

fix the forward line and our gameplan will look differently (because we wouldnt be forced to handball in circles), our turnovers will decrease, and our scoring will improve while we hinder the other teams scoring

That might be correct if the players first instinct wasnt to look sideways and backwards to give a handball. They dont even look up to see if there is a forward moving.

As for your earlier comment of not kicking it deep and causing a turnover, wouldnt you prefer the turnover to occur closer to our goal than theirs? Turnover a handball in defence or in the middle and they are only 1 or 2 kicks from goal with our defenders all caught out of position anyway because they are zoning. And who know we might even kick the odd goal.

 

[birdmanptr]

I think its a combination of things... of which i've stated elsewhere

That's how i see it there's lots of things that ain't right.

Every now and then tonight we looked ok but just not for long enough

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I just saw that
but I beleive the breakdown of our forwards is leading to a breakdown of the midfield which is leading to our backs been over run

fix the forward line and our gameplan will look differently (because we wouldnt be forced to handball in circles), our turnovers will decrease, and our scoring will improve while we hinder the other teams scoring

I don't think it is the forward lines fault. As I see it, our problem lies when we get the ball in the midfield and there is an opposition player in front of us.

We simply do not know what to do in this situation.

Do we have the speed to get around them? No

Do we have the strength or confidence to break through their tackle? No

Do we have the football smarts to draw their tackle, free the hands and give it off? No

Do we have the football smarts to delay the handball, draw the player, then give off to a team mate? No

If one of our team mates is in possession as in the situations above, do we have the football smarts to run to a position to receive the ball that will place us in an attacking position? No

If one of our team mates is in possession as in the situations above, do we have the football smarts to provide a shephard so that they can run with the ball? No

This stuff is Basic Football 101 but it seems to be the root of all our problems at the moment.

If faced with an opposition player we can't kick it because it will be smothered or a rushed high ball. We can't possibly get around them. Our team mates can't possibly shephard for us. So the only options are to retreat, to give off a handball to a stationary player, to give off a handball to a player under the pump, to go backwards or to slip over and get caught holding the ball.

With the pressure being at such a higher level this season we are seeing these situations fifty times a match and we are turning it over a pretty high percentage of the time. If we get the ball in the midfield and suddenly find there is no opposition player in front then we look like a good team again.

 

[oldcrowgirl]

I think that the worst of our problems originate in the midfield, and agree with all that Spackler had to say about that.

Handballing in ever decreasing circles drives me insane. The thing that rivals that for me is when someone receives a ball, in a small clear area. Has time to look forward for an option, but no, the very first reflex is too turn and look behind, for a team mate. Doughty did this last night, but he is not alone. So he looks behind, and by the time he realises that no one is running past, the opposition is on him. It would be easier and mor effective to glance ahead and KICK carefully to a leading player.

I also think that our forward line needs to be able to settle. We need someone on the ground and can't have 2 guys jump for the speccy, come down without the ball, fall over, and oh shit, the dogs have cleared it out. The guys need to be allowed to play together and establish a feel for what their team mates are doing.

Ben Rutten has been subjected to finger-pointing lately, but I think that his success as FB has been less since Nathan Bassett retired. If you look back at Rutten/Hall contests in the past, Rutten and Bassett both defended Hall. Successfully, even though another forward was left unattended. I hope that Bocky will be back soon.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

This stuff is Basic Football 101 but it seems to be the root of all our problems at the moment.

Agreed. It's hard to perform the instinctive basics and back yourself when...

1) The game plan is overly complex and
2) We don't have the players with the requisite skill to perform that perfectionist game plan consistently
3) We also lack the balance of skill/pace/hardness in the midfield.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Agreed. It's hard to perform the instinctive basics and back yourself when...

1) The game plan is overly complex and
2) We don't have the players with the requisite skill to perform that perfectionist game plan consistently
3) We also lack the balance of skill/pace/hardness in the midfield.

Agree here. Rejigging our midfield is going to be a significant task in 2011 and 2012. We seem to have some decent young players on the periphery that hopefully will come on but we are light on for genuine inside midfielders. Of our guys under 25 who would you liken to a Sam Mitchell, Brett Kirk or even a Cameron Ling?

 

[StuPendus]

I'm very surprised no one has mentioned the real reason.

It's the new logo.

 

[Pariah]

Every one at the club apart from admin staff.
I also think that the lost to Collingwood in last years finals took more out of them psychologically than we know( like when Port lost to Geelong in the GF).

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

I'm not going to come out and blame the normal whipping boys like this board normally does, but actually those at fault for our problem.

Is it David Noble not knowing what the **** he's doing?
Or is it our forwards bar Burton/Walker not presenting?

Our forwards do not present bar Burton/Walker, which forces the midfieders and backman to handball back and forth and left and right. But the few times this year forwards have led and presented to our midfielders we've looked better going forward with a focus, and we're reducing the risk of the turnovers by not over possessing it.

Handballs isn't the problem, they're actually a decent neutraliser for us with the forwards not presenting. If we kick it long to the middle of nowhere, with no forwards leading, with modern day tactics and zoneing, there is a 90% chance it'll come right back in the direction the ball came from, and with our defenders out of position from the turnover, we're ****ed

The cure for this is for the forwards to present an option which allows us to move forward with speed.

We have been seeing poor skills from players such as Edwards, Doughty and Cook. But they're trying to take on numerous players because the forwards arn't giving an option. If they presented, either they would of gotten the ball out to them straight away, or the person that sold Edwards/Doughty/Cook into trouble would of gone in that direction in the first place preventing the **** up.

So my question again.

Is the problem the fact that David Noble isn't instructing our forwards to present?
Or our forwards just arn't presenting?

I disagree, IMO you have it back to front

our forwards do not present because we are so slow and indirect by the over use of our handball

the extra handball and two through the midfield is enough to cause forwards to be hesitant, presenting and leading is all about timing and knowing when to lead, it is almost impossible for a forward to get his timing right if the transfer from midfield to the forward entery is slow, indirect or unpredictable due to the over use of the footy

I would hate to be a forward in our side

"you see Stiffy breaking from HB, your just about to spring into your lead and there it is a sideways handball to Goody or hanballs backwards to Rutten who switches across to Doughty"

its not easy at the moment for our forwards