Who will improve?

[MachoRandySavage]

forget blind hope. Who is really gonna improve, and improve to the point that we will win more games as a result?

I reckon.

Tom Hawkins. Big preseason, confidence in his foot, another year under his belt. I honestly believe he will be a matchwinner.

Tom Lonegran. Before you laugh, he showed ENORMOUS improvement this year. I am full as a boot as i write this, but I still reckon that he will go from being a reliable stopper to a creative KPD next year!

Travis Varcoe. Will go into the midfield and become elite. Nothing surer.

Dawson Simpson. Will be first ruck choice i reckon. Nothing to base this speculation on, except he is agile for someone that big. He has a crack. He has a streak of shit in him. He has many things I like.

Those 4 improving will make us a better side.

 

[keen cats fella]

Hawkins: Shit I hope Scott has enough foresight to just dump him in the forward 50, and leave him there by himself. I remember Mooney saying a couple of year back that Hawkins will one day own the forward 50. I've always thought a tactic of leaving him there one on one would work out, he is extremely strong in one on one contests and although he's slowish, not many could break a Tomahawk tackle. I do possess a lot of man love for the big fella, but I'm sure he just needs to be left in the one position and left there, with the confidence of his team mates (who more often than not kick to Mooney or Pods)

 

[DanA]

Still plenty of improvement;

Corey, Scarlett & Bartel were down from their best
T.Hunt, Menzel, Duncan, Motlop, Vardy & Christenson will add pressure for spots
Hawkins & Varcoe can up their games still I reckon
Pods will be a better player next year to for sure


I think it comes down to injuries and the kids. We could very easily be in next year GF. Then it's a matter of pinching it. Don't think we'll be the best team though.

 

[JMc#5]

Look at our forwards: Hawkins, Moondog, jPod, Stevie J, Chapstick, Shagger, Stokes.... Menzel Washington and Duncan...

If we can get that working for a start we'll get some improvement. No odubt jPod will be up on his tally from last year, and if we can get a good 40 goals out of Hawkins...

Corey, bartel (as mentioned) and Ottens all have the 'potential' to up their performance from last year...

There are a bunch of kids who want a game and will be given opportunities if they deserve it so to be honest i can't see us doing anything but improving...

It's a mightly strong list we still have, and with the right direction and motivation from the coach we'll be going pretty well i reckon...


P.S. All those negative posters just stay out of this thread, let us optimists gee each other up... It's better than looking at the glass half empty.

 

[Claude Balls]

It's a funny question, as in theory you should really only look at players who will improve by virtue of getting older and more experienced/physically developed. From the prelim team this includes Hawkins, Varcoe, Taylor and Selwood, and in terms of new players you could argue that T. Hunt, and at least one of Menzel and Duncan will represent a net improvement.

I think the question of greater importance however is whether some of the older chaps can return to pre-2010 form and show that their recent injury concerns were not necessarily age related. I.e. Corey, Scarlett and Ottens (though in Ottens case it's more like pre-2008!).

 

[SJ]

For players still on our list who have played a senior game (green - expect to improve, red - expect to worsen, orange - expect no significant change):

3 Jimmy Bartel
4 Andrew Mackie
5 Travis Varcoe
6 Brad Ottens
7 Harry Taylor
8 Josh Hunt
9 James Kelly
10 Daniel Menzel
11 Joel Corey
12 Trent West
13 Tom Lonergan
14 Joel Selwood
16 Dawson Simpson
17 Shannon Byrnes
20 Steve Johnson
21 Cameron Mooney
22 Mitchell Duncan
23 Marcus Drum
24 Mark Blake
25 Tom Gillies
26 Tom Hawkins
27 Mathew Stokes
30 Matthew Scarlett
31 James Podsiadly
32 Steven Motlop
34 Simon Hogan
35 Paul Chapman
38 Taylor Hunt
39 Darren Milburn
40 David Wojcinski
44 Corey Enright
45 Cameron Ling

 

[longtimecat]

Pretty much agree with SJ but I believe Ottens can improve a lot on last year IF he can get an injury free preseason.

 

[Gladbaqs]

Can't improve on that SJ!

I hope Travis Varcoe realises he can be the Cats best player.

 

[Claude Balls]

For players still on our list who have played a senior game (green - expect to improve, red - expect to worsen, orange - expect no significant change):

Based on your assessments SJ,

The 2010 Prelim team:

B: Hunt - Scarlett - Milburn
HB: Enright - Taylor - Kelly
C: Ling - Bartel - Corey
HF: Chappy - Mooney - Stokes
F: Stevie J - Pods - Varcoe

Foll: Ottens, Selwood, Ablett

Int. Lonergan, Hawkins, Wojo, Byrnes


So basically we're up shit creek!!

Need 3 or 4 new players to kick out some of those in red, and create a net improvement in their respective positions.

 

[vinum coupe]

well done claude.
That says a fair bit when you look at it that way doesn't it?

 

[Claude Balls]

It sure does. It strengthens my view that our best chance might actually be in 2012, when most of the orange players will hopefully still be organge, but we replace 4 or 5 red players with green.

Of course, there's nothing to say Corey, Scarlett and perhaps even Ottens can't improve on 2010... I'm not without hope.

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

I expect... maybe more like hope.... Mackie will improve - from last years efforts anyway.

Hawkins, Varcoe and Pods are the other ones who should be better with another year and preseason.

You never know though, if those guys seriously improve (and we all know how much potential Hawkins has), our older gents are in good form, and those younger guys like Hunt, Menzel etc push for selection, we will still have a pretty competitive line up. That along with a tweaked and improved gameplan, and added motivation from new coach, we've got a lot to look forward to next year!

 

[Claude Balls]

A lot will need to go right, but if it does we'll be no less a chance than any other team outside Collingwood.

 

[SJ]

Based on your assessments SJ,

The 2010 Prelim team:

B: Hunt - Scarlett - Milburn
HB: Enright - Taylor - Kelly
C: Ling - Bartel - Corey
HF: Chappy - Mooney - Stokes
F: Stevie J - Pods - Varcoe

Foll: Ottens, Selwood, Ablett

Int. Lonergan, Hawkins, Wojo, Byrnes


So basically we're up shit creek!!

Need 3 or 4 new players to kick out some of those in red, and create a net improvement in their respective positions.

Or looking ahead a year or two:

B: J Hunt - Lonergan - T Hunt
HB: Enright - Taylor - Mackie
C: Varcoe - Hogan - Bartel
HF: Johnson - Hawkins - Duncan
F: Motlop - Podsiadly - Stokes

Foll: Simpson, Selwood, Kelly

Int. West, Wojcinski, Byrnes, Menzel

 

[Claude Balls]

Or looking ahead a year or two:

B: J Hunt - Lonergan - T Hunt
HB: Enright - Taylor - Mackie
C: Varcoe - Hogan - Bartel
HF: Johnson - Hawkins - Duncan
F: Motlop - Podsiadly - Stokes

Foll: Simpson, Selwood, Kelly

Int. West, Wojcinski, Byrnes, Menzel

Since our ignominious departure in this year's finals I've been thinking that our best chance at snagging another flag would in 2012/13, or when we have turned over 1/3 to 1/2 of the 2010 best 22 but are still able to make use of Kelly, SJ, Bartel, Mackie and perhaps even Enright and Podsiadly, all before they start to decline significantly. If we can't make use of these guys it will essentially be a completely new cycle, and may take another 5-6 years and plenty of canny drafting in the meantime.

The 22 you posted is pretty much along those lines.

 

[Beth]

Im hoping Hawkins discovers his inner beast coz he's a great big frustrating lad at present. What about the younger Varcoe will he be given an opportunity this year or will injuries keep him gameless?

I also hope Gillies responds well to that less than pleasant end of year review and shows something.

 

[MightyMark]

For players still on our list who have played a senior game (green - expect to improve, red - expect to worsen, orange - expect no significant change):

3 Jimmy Bartel
4 Andrew Mackie
5 Travis Varcoe
6 Brad Ottens
7 Harry Taylor
8 Josh Hunt
9 James Kelly
10 Daniel Menzel
11 Joel Corey
12 Trent West
13 Tom Lonergan
14 Joel Selwood
16 Dawson Simpson
17 Shannon Byrnes
20 Steve Johnson
21 Cameron Mooney
22 Mitchell Duncan
23 Marcus Drum
24 Mark Blake
25 Tom Gillies
26 Tom Hawkins
27 Mathew Stokes
30 Matthew Scarlett
31 James Podsiadly
32 Steven Motlop
34 Simon Hogan
35 Paul Chapman
38 Taylor Hunt
39 Darren Milburn
40 David Wojcinski
44 Corey Enright
45 Cameron Ling

Agree with the bulk of that, I still think Chappy can at least hold the form he showed this year, I dont think he is going to drop off. He relished his time in the mid field, and with Ablett gone and the possibility that Corey's role will be limited he will probably rotate through more often.

I also think Ling still has something to offer, just not as a tagger. In terms of his current role in the team, there is no doubt he will only worsen, but I wouldnt mind seeing him moved forward, he can play as a key forward but also as a defensive forward. He might be slow, but he still reads the play better than anyone.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I pretty much agree with SJ's list, the only issue is that most of the "greens" don't currently have a spot in the side, whereas all the "reds" do...so we need the coach(es) to push some of the reds aside and put the greens in, if we do that, we can most certainly have a really good year and play finals etc, but if we keep all the blokes who are on the decline, without injecting in those who are on the improve to compensate for it, we won't go anywhere near as well.

 

[candiehappy]

Selwood will get better, I think that he and Varcoe will blossom.

but the quantum improvement must come from Hawkins

 

[Belisarius]

Corey will either get over his injury or not. If he does he will improve - if not he will not play much next season.

Ottens could go either way. Perhaps a full preseason will do him good and he will play better. If played like he did this season - bring in Dawson and West !

Scarlett has been great but probably had his worst season this year by his lofty standards. Still a gun and should rebound IMO to his old form.

All key players - all 3 could go under or all 3 could actually improve. Only time will tell.

Ling is more of an issue. If he plays forward and reinvents himself - who knows - he maybe ok. Could end up out of the side - so do not make him captain.

Hawkins is the interesting one. I have given largely up on him as he does not have the mental application to dominate a position. Hope I am wrong.

Lonergan also lacks grunt but could improve marginally with even more experience down back over the season. It is a bit of a hope however IMO.

Pods will improve but will he get as much ball delivered form the midfield ? - that could negate his improvement a bit.

A lot depends on the young guys coming thru and how many get games. They are always hard to judge. They may improve but not enough to be as good as the players they are replacing just yet.

I would be happy to see 3-4 younger players come in and play well - getting us up for a rejuvenated 2012 season for GFC.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Scarlett has been great but probably had his worst season this year by his lofty standards. Still a gun and should rebound IMO to his old form.

Pods will improve but will he get as much ball delivered form the midfield ? - that could negate his improvement a bit.

I think it's obvious that the Cats were grooming Scarlett in a different role with less pressure in 2010, probably in a Dustin Fletcher-esque attempt to extend his career . The thing was, while he was often playing on the opposition's third forward option, his rebounding wasn't any better than when he was playing on the big guns. Still reliable as hell to lock someone up, but it's hard to say whether he is slowing down, or whether he just relishes the chance to make the Daniel Bradshaws/Barry Halls of the world look stupid.

I'm hoping for some improvement from Pods when he plays away from the Cattery. He's got some experience lining up for goal in front of 50,000+ hostile fans under his belt, now he needs to start putting them through the big sticks. It's an underrated aspect of his development. The most people he's ever played in front of before 2010 was maybe 8,000-10,000. It would take some getting used to. The big crowd clearly got to him in the PF and it really hurt us. Maybe he won't get the silver service he did in 2010, but there's still improvement in the big fella.

 

[cancat]

Mitch Brown

Adam Varcoe

 

[MightyMark]

Fairly easy to improve on a season which included 0 senior games.

 

[pinion]

I pretty much agree with SJ's list, the only issue is that most of the "greens" don't currently have a spot in the side, whereas all the "reds" do...so we need the coach(es) to push some of the reds aside and put the greens in, if we do that, we can most certainly have a really good year and play finals etc, but if we keep all the blokes who are on the decline, without injecting in those who are on the improve to compensate for it, we won't go anywhere near as well.

the problem with that logic though is it implies that an improving gillies is better than a declining scarlett

 

[cancat]

Fairly easy to improve on a season which included 0 senior games.

If that was directed at my Mitch Brown and Adam Varcoe suggestions, I think these 2 guys are our best young prospects. If we can 15 senior games into each of them next year then we are looking at 2 very good players the year after.