Why do Griffen and the bulldogs get a free pass?

[bresker]

Griffen is far from the finished article. He's still a pup. Lots of improvement left.

Hopefully, he move into the midfield and start kicking a few more long goals.

I wouldn't swap him for any young player in the league.

AFL Coaches agree:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20482691-23211,00.html

Western Bulldogs defender Ryan Griffen was named best young player over the 2005-06 seasons, after previous winners Adam Cooney (Bulldogs, 2004-05), Daniel Wells (Kangaroos, 2003-04) and Chris Judd (West Coast (2002-03).

 

[mad-saint-guy]

If I could have any player from the 2004 draft at St Kilda it would be Griffen. I imagine it would be the same for at least 10 other clubs.

 

[Bentleigh]

Ryan Griffen >>> Lance Franklin

 

[Philhawk]

I'd say the stats of Griffen don't do him any justice at all....I would say that a 15 possession game from him would be a 35 possession game of Sam Mitchell.

I disagree with the point of this thread as I actually believe that Griffen was the best from his draft - but that comment there is absolute garbage. It's amazing how under-rated Sammy is on BigFooty.

Top 5 players from the 2004 Draft IMO (In no order):

Griffen
Sherman
Deledio
Franklin
Lewis

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Top 5 players from the 2004 Draft IMO (In no order):

Griffen
Sherman
Deledio
Franklin
Lewis

Yep, good list. And here they are in order
1 - Griffen
2 - Deledio
3 - Franklin
4 - Sherman
5 - Lewis

 

[knackers27]

Griffin plays as a half back flanker, so how many possessions are you expecting him to get.

Jeffery if you real watch the games and actually analyse the games like you say than you would also notice that opposition coaches put dangerous forwards on him, sometimes even taggers. He reguarlly gives away inches and wins, he wins alot of one on one contests, other coaches advise their players to drag him to the goal line whenever they get a chance to try and stop his run. He kicking effieciency isn;t a true stat becuase of the flooding, griffin reguarly trys to break the lines by either running through them or kicking over them

You tell me out of those 5 others you mentioned how many get this amount of repect from other coaches and other opponents, but sure they must all be poor judges aswell and you would be the only one who can analyse a game properlly (note the sracasim for that last part)

 

[cleveland]

Top 6

Deledio=Griffen=Franklin(All showed can be stars) >>>>>>> Roughead >>>>>>>>>>>>Tambling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Williams

Btw Mitchell doesn't get cheap possessions he earns most of his and is the clearance king in our side. You can't compare him to Griffen they are different types of players.

What the **** is willams doing there. Give the kid a break. He hasnt even played a game yet. Judge him after he has been injury free for a whole season.

 

[Bentleigh]

I like how we are writing Williams off.

He what, 19?

 

[Belly]

Delidio, Tambling, ROughead, Franklin and Lewis were five of the top 7 picks in the 2004 Draft. All have potential yet all have their critics.

Yet the Western Bulldogs somehow seem to escape criticism, not only for wasting the 6th pick in the draft but for their drafting of Ryan Griffen. He had a serious case of second year blues, and whilst there are flashes of brilliance, he has lacked consitancy, his endurance is unproven, his disposal can be very sloppy.

The Bulldogs had a chance to draft Lance Franklin and have a dominant centre half forward and instead went for yet another half back flanker who might develop into a midfielder.

I am amazed that everyone just accepts that Griffen is going to be a gun without any real analysis of the games he has played.

**** off, you have no idea.

 

[tigerT]

Griffin plays as a half back flanker, so how many possessions are you expecting him to get.

He kicking effieciency isn;t a true stat becuase of the flooding, griffin reguarly trys to break the lines by either running through them or kicking over them

You tell me out of those 5 others you mentioned how many get this amount of repect from other coaches and other opponents

Deledio gets tagged...

Are you saying its harder to get possessions on a HBF rather than anywhere else on the field especially with the way modern day footy is played? Deledio switched to a HBF for the last 6 rounds and was averaging 22 possessions a game.


Poor excuse re kicking efficiency, a more accurate assessment is hes still young and will learn to pick better options as he gains experience. Not being critical, just a fact, he is after all still a kid..

But I spose if we were talking abt Buddy, Tambling or even Deledio who cops some crap, it would be seen as a weakness and the reason why "they will never be more than a squad player", lmao @ BF pinheads.

But i rekn an early post hit it on the head, richmond and hawthorn supporters flamed each other to levels rarely seen even on BF after the 04 draft while the bulldogs quietly kept to themselves and said thankyou very much we are happy

 

[Bentleigh]

Griffin plays as a half back flanker, so how many possessions are you expecting him to get.

Lots..

 

[Jeffrey]

Some interesting responses. Thanks to those people who realised I wasn't bagging Griffen, just wondering why he doesnt come under the same scutiny that better performing draftees do, and came up with possible reasons why.

Was suprised to see so many Bulldogs fans with their heads in the sand. THe problem with this is if you build a player up with unrealistic expectations, when he only turns out to be a very good player he will unfairly cop abuse from supporters for not fulfilling his so called potential. Lets hope this doesn't happen with Bulldogs fans in future years and they let Griffen be himself without always crapping on about "what if we had drafted Franklin."

 

[knackers27]

Deledio gets tagged...

Are you saying its harder to get possessions on a HBF rather than anywhere else on the field especially with the way modern day footy is played? Deledio switched to a HBF for the last 6 rounds and was averaging 22 possessions a game.


Poor excuse re kicking efficiency, a more accurate assessment is hes still young and will learn to pick better options as he gains experience. Not being critical, just a fact, he is after all still a kid..

I would say that the Western buklldogs Midfield would get a lot more footy than the tigers or the hawks and also that the bulldogs play a much more attacking brand of footy, where as the hawks and tigers get more numbers behind the ball, Tigers especially!
So yes I don't expect griffin to get 25+ possessions in the Bulldogs side, I would expect him to get 18 - 20 quality possessions a game, IMO Griffin is ahead of all players from that draft beacuase of the respect he has earnt from the opposition.

He is an excellent penetrating kick

 

[nugget_12]

ok for those of you have the stupid idea that Lids shouldn't be ranked at no1 over the two years you only need to look at the stats, this year when Lids was on the ball he averaged 19 disposals per game, now when he went to a Half Back Flank (the same position that Griffen plays) he averaged 22 disposals in 6 games.....
look lets not kid ourselves Lids Griff and the shermanator are all class and will be for a long time, but as the youngest of the lot brett deledio has been thrown into the deep end alot earlier then the other two.
Lids has been on the ball since late 05 where Griffen has been on a back flank and sherman on a wing or forward flank and towards the end of the year the middle (due to brisbane now being rabble in there)
wait till they're all premium midfielders before they're put in the same debate.
and on Franklin, well he shouldn't be montioned because he is a KPP.

 

[nugget_12]

I would say that the Western buklldogs Midfield would get a lot more footy than the tigers or the hawks and also that the bulldogs play a much more attacking brand of footy, where as the hawks and tigers get more numbers behind the ball, Tigers especially!
So yes I don't expect griffin to get 25+ possessions in the Bulldogs side, I would expect him to get 18 - 20 quality possessions a game, IMO Griffin is ahead of all players from that draft beacuase of the respect he has earnt from the opposition.

He is an excellent penetrating kick

but isn't being tagged, being given the ultimate amount of respect by the opposition???

 

[Infamy]

where as the hawks and tigers get more numbers behind the ball, Tigers especially!

That is such crap, we didn't flood in the Adelaide game, I can't believe people have so much trouble grasping that concept.

 

[knackers27]

Like I said before its easier for Delidio to get more possessions at the HBF becuase of the games style that the tigers play, they get numbers behind the ball and chip around to keep possession.
The Bulldogs are much more attacking, so watch the game before you just to his stats as a defense, they do not always paint the picture of what is actually happening.

Just remember I am an unbiased observer who doesn't barrack for any of these teams, I just call it as I see it. For the record I think That Griffin and delideo are the standouts from that draft with true Star potential, the only other one who can get ther IMO is buddy. griffin is ahead at the moment because of his impact in a more attacking side.

Yes Griffin and deledio both get tagged so that is the ultimate compliment for both of them and Franklin is starting to get the best backmen, this proves how good these players already are. i haven't bagged any of them just believe griffin is ahead at this stage because of what he contributes to his side.

 

[Corpuscles]

Some interesting responses. Thanks to those people who realised I wasn't bagging Griffen, just wondering why he doesnt come under the same scutiny that better performing draftees do, and came up with possible reasons why.

Was suprised to see so many Bulldogs fans with their heads in the sand. THe problem with this is if you build a player up with unrealistic expectations, when he only turns out to be a very good player he will unfairly cop abuse from supporters for not fulfilling his so called potential. Lets hope this doesn't happen with Bulldogs fans in future years and they let Griffen be himself without always crapping on about "what if we had drafted Franklin."

Congratulations on taking steps...... to start a footy related thread that is not utterly rediculous.... and refering to ahem *cough* 'preferences'

Griffin, predigre speaks for itself, it is a TEAM game, not all great players win awards or have the highest skills or stats! ( Brett Kirk.... you probabaly think he is a ...hack & plodder?)

The Dogs have a great deal to look forward to.... Griffin strikes me as a bloke who would shun the fanfare, and gladly accept a premiership medal. Not the sharpest tool in the shed based on his reaction to " they didn't even try comment"....but I don't blame him for saying so... he was 100% correct".

He is welcome and would be highly prized in Swans and 14 other teams "shed"

 

[Jeffrey]

Congratulations on taking steps...... to start a footy related thread that is not utterly rediculous.... and refering to ahem *cough* 'preferences'

Griffin, predigre speaks for itself, it is a TEAM game, not all great players win awards or have the highest skills or stats! ( Brett Kirk.... you probabaly think he is a ...hack & plodder?)

The Dogs have a great deal to look forward to.... Griffin strikes me as a bloke who would shun the fanfare, and gladly accept a premiership medal. Not the sharpest tool in the shed based on his reaction to " they didn't even try comment"....but I don't blame him for saying so... he was 100% correct".

He is welcome and would be highly prized in Swans and 14 other teams "shed"

Good analysis, but you haven't got the the heart of the issue, would you blow him for $100? If not, what if he played for Sydney?

 

[patdman]

The Bulldogs had a chance to draft Lance Franklin and have a dominant centre half forward and instead went for yet another half back flanker who might develop into a midfielder.

I cant really comment on Griffen but i have been a huge fan of Franklin (check posts I have made on him). Problem as I see it with Franklin is he does not have a natural football brain whereas he is just a freak athlete. He is Goodes or even Kouda like in the fact that he can probably play every position on the ground. Yeah he has had flashes of brilliance but other times he looks lost, he leads to the wrong areas of the ground at the wrong time, gets himself on the wrong side in contests and can generally be all over the shop.

Now I think he will come good, very good, but I am not surprised he was overlooked by a couple of clubs.

Very surprised Richmond took Tambling, VERY surprised.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

why dont you just get to the actual point of youre "question", and enlighten us all how much better then Griffen, Franklin is?

 

[Hawkk]

Griffen > Tambling, Roughead, Franklin and Lewis

I'm a Hawks fan to mate but seriously.

Franklin has shown just as much/if not more then Griffen, yet still has more scope for improvement in body strength, mark positioning etc. which comes with more experience playing as a KPP'er.

 

[SCRAY72]

Firstly you gotta love Bay 13.

OK, responding to your post. Griffen is a great young talent that has plenty of improvement in him. Clayton had him rated at number 1 and was always going to take one Richmond and Hawthorn selected other players.

Also,hindsight is wonderful but if we made an error taking Griffen ahead of Franklin then why did your club take Roughead at 2?

Tom Williams has been injured and was always a risky pick,but that is the beauty of the draft. He might still get there, he is only 19.

You guys just delisted Luke Brennan, a former number 8 pick. Pick 6? Pick 8? S**T Happens.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Franklin has shown just as much/if not more then Griffen.

No he hasnt.

yet still has more scope for improvement in body strength, mark positioning etc. which comes with more experience playing as a KPP'er.

How does he have more "scope for imrovement"?

 

[Kim Chambers]

No he hasnt.
How does he have more "scope for imrovement"?

He doesnt.But you are dealing with a Dawkthorn moron remember? The team thats going to win the '08 '09 and '10 premierships? Haven't you been told yet?