Why do some guys like Robbie Williams' Music?

[Carlos]

Serious questions here AndSmithMustScore:

Do you seriously not understand how or why people might listen to music that makes them actually feel something deeper than just superficial happiness or the urge to dance?

Can you seriously not understand someone actually having an intellectual or emotional attachment or relation to certain artists' music?

Is it all just mindless, light entertainment and a product for you to consume and dispose of or are you having a bit of a lend here?

 

[Roddy]

Serious questions here AndSmithMustScore:

Do you seriously not understand how or why people might listen to music that makes them actually feel something deeper than just superficial happiness or the urge to dance?

Can you seriously not understand someone actually having an intellectual or emotional attachment or relation to certain artists' music?

Is it all just mindless, light entertainment and a product for you to consumer an dispose of for you or are you having a bit of a lend here?

Can't WAIT to see the response here.......

 

[Carlos]

Same questions go for Jacqui and anyone else sharing the point of view that music is merely light entertainment etc etc.

There is no right or wrong answer and i'm not loading the questions to then rip into you.

I am honestly just curious and i cannot fathom the mentality here.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Serious questions here AndSmithMustScore:

Do you seriously not understand how or why people might listen to music that makes them actually feel something deeper than just superficial happiness or the urge to dance?

Can you seriously not understand someone actually having an intellectual or emotional attachment or relation to certain artists' music?

Is it all just mindless, light entertainment and a product for you to consume and dispose of or are you having a bit of a lend here?

I understand why they do, i have artists who's talents i enjoy.

But i'm not going to put their talents against anothers and say the other person is shyte because they don't posses a similar talent.

The whole Robbie Williams has no talent line doesnt wash with me, no he can't play a guitar, but he sings a hell of alot better than alot of the artists people are trying to compare him talent wise with.

Personally i don't own any of his stuff but i'm defending the principle that the majority have no clue because they choose to listen to certain styles of music as false.

I'm very much into the history of music and it's development,i just don't have the attitude that any style is better than any other, i don't listen to some styles because they aren't my thing, but i don't say they don't have talent at what they do in their chosen genre, it's just each genre will be stronger in some areas than others.

 

[Roddy]

I understand why they do, i have artists who's talents i enjoy.

But i'm not going to put their talents against anothers and say the other person is shyte because they don't posses a similar talent.

The whole Robbie Williams has no talent line doesnt wash with me, no he can't play a guitar, but he sings a hell of alot better than alot of the artists people are trying to compare him talent wise with.

Personally i don't own any of his stuff but i'm defending the principle that the majority have no clue because they choose to listen to certain styles of music as false.

I'm very much into the history of music and it's development,i just don't have the attitude that any style is better than any other, i don't listen to some styles because they aren't my thing, but i don't say they don't have talent at what they do in their chosen genre, it's just each genre will be stronger in some areas than others.

Wow, you just made a full 5 paragraphs without saying anything whatsoever.

A bit like Robbie's music, really!

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Wow, you just made a full 5 paragraphs without saying anything whatsoever.

A bit like Robbie's music, really!

So you are then saying for an artist to be considered relevant they have to have a message, be telling you something?

 

[Roddy]

So you are then saying for an artist to be considered relevant they have to have a message, be telling you something?

Dunno about 'message' and 'relevance', but for an artist to deserve respect, some substance is required. And, to my ear, people like Robbie, Kylie and 90% of the mainstream pop products have the substance of a Big Mac (there's that analogy again), and the depth of a puddle in the desert.....

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Dunno about 'message' and 'relevance', but for an artist to deserve respect, some substance is required. And, to my ear, people like Robbie, Kylie and 90% of the mainstream pop products have the substance of a Big Mac (there's that analogy again), and the depth of a puddle in the desert.....

So explain what "substance" involves?

I'm interested to know what this infinite quality is that seperates each artist.

 

[Roddy]

So explain what "substance" involves?

I'm interested to know what this infinite quality is that seperates each artist.

Oh God. I could spend paragraphs on that. But it's almost 2am!!!

In a nutshell, think of it as at least the appearance of having some serious effort, hard work, sweat and skill put into the creation of the music. Take my all time favourite band, Rush. I know that they spend at least 6-8 months writing their new album, and then at least 4-6 months in the studio recording. That's virtually a year in the creative process. And that's not even mentioning the years and years of personal practise that each member has put in, and thousands upon thousands of hours in the rehearsal studio.

Contrast that with most pop products today (and yes, I say most, because I'm sure there are exceptions). Most have virtually everything written for them. (They may contribute a couple of lines of lyrics just so they can get a writing credit). They walk in the studio, sing ten 3 minute pop songs into an auto-tuner, and they're done. Then all they have to do is go off and look cool/hot in the video clip (which is totally written and made for them). Most would spend far more time with their stylists and hairdressers than creating their actual music.

Get the picture?

 

[Carlos]

So explain what "substance" involves?

I'm interested to know what this infinite quality is that seperates each artist.

Earlier in this thread you said:

Music isn't about writing some awe inspiring album to last the test of time, it's about selling records.

Critical aclaim counts for jack ******** if it doesnt sell.

as well as:

Who gives a toss about talent.

This whole music is an art is a total ********y conception.

The music industry is a Billion $ one, and that industry doesnt want "arty" records it wants bonafide money makers.

but this delightfully insightful contribution was the one that really sat me on my arse. Wasn't actually from you, but the theme is the same:

To me personally all muscians are performers and nothing else really and to put it bluntly they are all products of their record labels. You say Tool are artists yet their career would be decided on, like Robbies, by their management team at the record label. Like Williams they may write their own songs and have input that way but in reality all are just the end product of some guy sitting behind his over sized desk and deciding what they should or should not do.

Now i'm not living in fairy land. Any signed artist has been put on a record label with the intention of getting their music to as many people as possible and hopefully shifting units.

But the difference is:

a large percentage of pop music is manufactured with the the focus on selling as many units as possible as part of a cynical, calculated strategy to appeal to as many people as possible by getting in front of as many people as possible. The actual music is an afterthought and hence has the propensity to be as disposable as the income that is used to purchase it.

Music in its truest and best form is art and i cannot get my head around how you or anyone could dispute that. It is not written, performed, recorded etc with the specific goal of selling or following a trend or any of that sh*t. It is a reflection of what the artist wanted to create.

Yes, it will then go through the machine and marketing strategies of varying description will be put in place to expose that final product to as many people as possible. But the creation of the music is always the first and foremost important thing the major factor in how many units it sells, not the final piece in a well oiled money making machine.

 

[jacqui9]

Serious questions here AndSmithMustScore:

Do you seriously not understand how or why people might listen to music that makes them actually feel something deeper than just superficial happiness or the urge to dance?

Can you seriously not understand someone actually having an intellectual or emotional attachment or relation to certain artists' music?

Is it all just mindless, light entertainment and a product for you to consume and dispose of or are you having a bit of a lend here?

Let me explain a little Carlos.

I don't have the serious psychological attachment to music as many people do. If it sounds good to me personally, then yeah, I like it. My comments were perhaps a little harsh in response to Roddy and Bunsen Burner.

I like to think of myself as an intelligent, young woman and to have a couple of morons jump all over me in an act of self righteousness without knowing my circumstances, well it really annoys me no end. People find their inspirations in different ways. Nobody bothered to ask where my inspirational attachments lie. My thoughts and feelings come from books, documentaries and classic film. I can certainly understand people who draw thoughts, emotions and feelings from music. Afterall, it is a an art form, and art is open to different types of interpretations. However, my interpretation differs greatly from others, and it would be nice if Mr Burner and Mr Roddy could respect that.

 

[bunsen burner]

However, my interpretation differs greatly from others, and it would be nice if Mr Burner and Mr Roddy could respect that.

I wholeheartedly respect your lack of musical taste.

 

[jacqui9]

I wholeheartedly respect your lack of musical taste.

Good. That is all I wanted to read

 

[Roddy]

Let me explain a little Carlos.

I don't have the serious psychological attachment to music as many people do. If it sounds good to me personally, then yeah, I like it. My comments were perhaps a little harsh in response to Roddy and Bunsen Burner.

I like to think of myself as an intelligent, young woman and to have a couple of morons jump all over me in an act of self righteousness without knowing my circumstances, well it really annoys me no end. People find their inspirations in different ways. Nobody bothered to ask where my inspirational attachments lie. My thoughts and feelings come from books, documentaries and classic film. I can certainly understand people who draw thoughts, emotions and feelings from music. Afterall, it is a an art form, and art is open to different types of interpretations. However, my interpretation differs greatly from others, and it would be nice if Mr Burner and Mr Roddy could respect that.

You have to realise that if you put your opinion forward in a forum like this, you must be emotionally prepared to have it answered and possibly answered very strongly. If you're not, don't put your opinon forward. If you can't stand the heat.....
We were discussing music, not your 'inspirations and attachments'. And one other thing, you show a very distinct LACK of intelligence if you resort to simple name calling......

 

[Heisenberg_]

Comming from a Bogan that means little.

How am I a bogan because I don't judge how good music is by how many records it sells and if you can dance to it?

 

[bunsen burner]

You have to realise that if you put your opinion forward in a forum like this, you must be emotionally prepared to have it answered and possibly answered very strongly. If you're not, don't put your opinon forward. If you can't stand the heat.....
We were discussing music, not your 'inspirations and attachments'. And one other thing, you show a very distinct LACK of intelligence if you resort to simple name calling......

Precisely.

Not sure why people come to a forum and expect no one to disagree with them? It's a forum ffs.

Often people think a Robbie Williams (or the likes) thread should only be available to people who want to blow wind up his arse and mutual masturbate each other. If people want a cotton wool environment then they should go to the Robbie William's fan forum or the George Michael fan forum or the Britney Spears fan forum etc.

 

[John]

Oh God. I could spend paragraphs on that. But it's almost 2am!!!

In a nutshell, think of it as at least the appearance of having some serious effort, hard work, sweat and skill put into the creation of the music. Take my all time favourite band, Rush. I know that they spend at least 6-8 months writing their new album, and then at least 4-6 months in the studio recording. That's virtually a year in the creative process. And that's not even mentioning the years and years of personal practise that each member has put in, and thousands upon thousands of hours in the rehearsal studio.

Contrast that with most pop products today (and yes, I say most, because I'm sure there are exceptions). Most have virtually everything written for them. (They may contribute a couple of lines of lyrics just so they can get a writing credit). They walk in the studio, sing ten 3 minute pop songs into an auto-tuner, and they're done. Then all they have to do is go off and look cool/hot in the video clip (which is totally written and made for them). Most would spend far more time with their stylists and hairdressers than creating their actual music.

Get the picture?

I gather you are no fan of The Beatles or The Stones.

 

[Roddy]

I gather you are no fan of The Beatles or The Stones.

Not sure how you drew that long bow. I'm definitely not aware of the Beatles or Stones having everything written for them, singing into auto-tuners and spending lots of time with hairdressers and stylists. Definitely a Stones fan, and respect the Beatles very much....

 

[John]

Not sure how you drew that long bow. I'm definitely not aware of the Beatles or Stones having everything written for them, singing into auto-tuners and spending lots of time with hairdressers and stylists. Definitely a Stones fan, and respect the Beatles very much....

Fair enough. Just from your post you give the impression of that music is only any good if the "artiste" spends hour upon hour honing his skills and refining his recordings. To me it would be a sad world with out the 3 minute pop song.

 

[John]

Not sure how you drew that long bow. I'm definitely not aware of the Beatles or Stones having everything written for them, singing into auto-tuners and spending lots of time with hairdressers and stylists. Definitely a Stones fan, and respect the Beatles very much....

As to hairdressers and stylist I am old enough to remember glam rock .
Life would have been sad with out Bowie, Roxy Music ext.

 

[Roddy]

LOVE Bowie, Ferry, Queen etc. The difference was their look and image ENHANCED their act. With many of today's pop puppets, their look and image IS their act....

 

[John]

LOVE Bowie, Ferry, Queen etc. The difference was their look and image ENHANCED their act. With many of today's pop puppets, their look and image IS their act....

I am nearly 50. Trust me nothing is much differant. I was involved in countless dope hazed discussions on how glam was crap and no one could beat Led Zepplin. Abba are rubbish was the war cry as I listened to The Saints and The Stranglers. This thread, along with the bag Darren Hayes threads are the reason I do not bother with the music board on bigfooty so much. The elitism of it is not for me to be honest. I am no fan of Robbie Williams but he has a reasonable voice, has reasonable songs and puts on a fantastic caberat. Is he talented? Of course. So are Rush. Differant music appeals to differant tastes and that is the way it should be. Some sell more than others. If I had my way Ed Kuepper would be selling large numbers as he has written some bloody great songs that deserve wider attention but it is not going to happen.

 

[Roddy]

Well, I'm 36, so I'm not that far behind. I'm also a music obsessed musician (well, drummer!), and have been for well over 2 decades, so I tend to dig deeper. Don't think of it as 'elitism'. Think of it as looking for something more than the shyte that gets served up by the mainstream. Once again, there's better food out there than Maccas and KFC, and those who open their eyes, mind and ears to it have their lives eternally enriched....

 

[John]

Well, I'm 36, so I'm not that far behind. I'm also a music obsessed musician (well, drummer!), and have been for well over 2 decades, so I tend to dig deeper. Don't think of it as 'elitism'. Think of it as looking for something more than the shyte that gets served up by the mainstream. Once again, there's better food out there than Maccas and KFC, and those who open their eyes, mind and ears to it have their lives eternally enriched....

Of course. I agree with nearly everyword you wrote in this post. I just think that what you and I think of as Sh!yte others think of as gold. Or that over used word as a Classic. Do you like Stairway To Heaven for example? I don't. But I would suggest a lot on here do. Who am I to to tell them that the words are nonesense and the singer screams his guts out.

My point is that it does not matter. For me there is stuff I will never listen to but to dismiss it with the elitist arguments as to its musicianship or songwriting ability does not cut it. As to open minds maybe some on here are as closed as that that they are complaining about.

 

[Roddy]

Of course. I agree with nearly everyword you wrote in this post. I just think that what you and I think of as Sh!yte others think of as gold. Or that over used word as a Classic. Do you like Stairway To Heaven for example? I don't. But I would suggest a lot on here do. Who am I to to tell them that the words are nonesense and the singer screams his guts out.

My point is that it does not matter. For me there is stuff I will never listen to but to dismiss it with the elitist arguments as to its musicianship or songwriting ability does not cut it. As to open minds maybe some on here are as closed as that that they are complaining about.

Well mate, what can I say? If you don't like all the horrible elitism and close mindedness you feel you're seeing here, stay off the music board, which you said you did anyway.....