Why don't spinners have more variations?

[big_e]

I loved watching him bowl. A series of lessons from a master of the art of varying speed and trajectory.

Sexual Herathment

 

[Leeda]

Sexual Herathment

and tell me to tell my terminal authority that my money is not that important.. my accountant.. that is..

 

[Damon_3388]

Because, quite simply, they can’t land them.

I could literally walk down to the nets and bowl at least some sort of version of every Warne variation.

What made him a genius was being able to land his leg break 120 times a day and then when he wanted to bowl a top spinner or flipper, he would almost every time land it

What gets underrated about Warne is his accuracy. Even spinners with "variations" who can land them, often get belted. Warne's economy was startling, considering how much variety he had. Part of that was the era he played in, and the sheer "unknown" of facing him, but still, it's a point that's not often focussed on.

It's also really physically difficult to bowl these variations accurately over a long career. Think of all the shoulder and finger problems Warne had during his career, and how many balls he bowled. Even if he looked like a park cricketer physically, he was in his own way a pretty special athlete too.

 

[Damon_3388]

I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned the name Herath - he is the definition of that bowler

I think that brings up another question - Why are left-arm spinners generally so "innocuous" compared to right armers? Is it just the different direction that makes them "easier" to play? Why are they mostly just "darters" with little variety?

 

[monty1104]

My thoughts would be that Warne’s retirement coincided with the explosion of T20 cricket. There has been a mindset shift from taking wickets to restricting runs.

As a spinner if you’re not consistently landing balls in T20 you become very expensive very quickly due to the condensed and attacking nature of the contest. In a test match, Warne might have bowled 180 balls in an innings, of those, he might have bowled only a few flippers. Of those he bowled, he wouldn’t have landed all of them. If a spinner misses even 2 balls in a T20, it can easily cost 12 runs.

The point is that bowlers are being taught to bowl more defensively and therefore don’t bowl many variations for fear of costing runs.

 

[Cold Sober]

Because they're not allowed to throw it like Murali did.

 

[PhatBoy]

Because they're not allowed to throw it like Murali did.

Research is your friend

 

[Cold Sober]

Research is your friend

Eye sight is perfect.
Records and stats say no one at West Coast took drugs in the 90's.

 

[PhatBoy]

Eye sight is perfect.
Records and stats say no one at West Coast took drugs in the 90's.

Well I for one welcome our new Eyesight-over-Scientific-Analysis overlord

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Many leggies bowled the flipper through the generations, including Clarrie Grimmet, Richie Benaud, etc. However, Warne was so strong in the arms and upper body, he was able to pitch the flipper on a fuller length than others leggies, making it a more lethal delivery.

Fuller length? He pitched his flipper consistently short, so much so he kept bowling batters who rocked back to cut

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Fuller length? He pitched his flipper consistently short, so much so he kept bowling batters who rocked back to cut

Not a fuller length in Warne's arsenal, but a fuller length in comparison to other leggies before him.

Clarrie Grimmett inventented the flipper. The intention being it was a half tracker that fooled the batsman thinking it was a rubbish short ball they could pull for 4, but it would skid low off the pitch and go under the bat to hopefully bowl him. The flipper was passed down from generation to generation. Richie Benaud also bowled the flipper.

By the time Warnie got to the Academy, coach Jack Potter introduced the flipper to him. The initial intention being it was just a variation to try from time to time. However, they discovered Warnie not only had remarkable control, but because of his strong wrists and forearms, he was able to pitch the ball on a fuller length than other leggies, thus making it a lethal delivery.

This isn't my opinion, it has been well documented by none other than Richie Benaud himself. Many people wondered what they were looking at because they hadn't seen it before ... not the way Warnie bowled it anyway. For the first time since Grimmett invented the ball back in the 1920s, the flipper became a dangerous ball.

The flipper is an easy ball to bowl, but not so easy if you want to bowl it to the standard of Shane Warne.

 

[Belnakor]

I think the shoulder opp was what did in his flipper. Gee it was a highlight early on in his career

the stewart one is topspinner, it pitches where you would expect and shoots on.

the richie richardson one is one of the very very few flippers that warne actually took wickets with.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

the stewart one is topspinner, it pitches where you would expect and shoots on.

the richie richardson one is one of the very very few flippers that warne actually took wickets with.

The Stewart one is a flipper

 

[corbies]

I think that brings up another question - Why are left-arm spinners generally so "innocuous" compared to right armers? Is it just the different direction that makes them "easier" to play? Why are they mostly just "darters" with little variety?

I would think it's because spinners are generally more effective when spinning the ball away from the batsman. Because a left arm spinner will have to bowl finger spin (mostly) in order to spin the ball away from a right hander, they are the ones who you see in professional cricket and finger spinners are generally more innocuous than wrist spin.

 

[thejockey]

the stewart one is topspinner, it pitches where you would expect and shoots on.

the richie richardson one is one of the very very few flippers that warne actually took wickets with.

Warne was a genuis , but if that Stewart ball is a toppy he is even more of a freak then I already think is.

It would basically be impossible for a leggy to bowl a toppy with that arm , wrist and hand position. Trajectory is too flat also .....but like I say the guy is a freak.

 

[Belnakor]

Warne was a genuis , but if that Stewart ball is a toppy he is even more of a freak then I already think is.

It would basically be impossible for a leggy to bowl a toppy with that arm , wrist and hand position. Trajectory is too flat also .....but like I say the guy is a freak.

The description of the flipper is a ball that "floats on" (further than the batsmen expects) and then shoots low to the ground. The richie one is a clear flipper.

The Stewart one doesn't float, it pitches exactly as you would expect a ball to pitch from a leg spinner then shoots on with decent bounce.

 

[Pippen94]

The description of the flipper is a ball that "floats on" (further than the batsmen expects) and then shoots low to the ground. The richie one is a clear flipper.

The Stewart one doesn't float, it pitches exactly as you would expect a ball to pitch from a leg spinner then shoots on with decent bounce.

The description of the flipper is a ball that "floats on" (further than the batsmen expects) and then shoots low to the ground. The richie one is a clear flipper.

The Stewart one doesn't float, it pitches exactly as you would expect a ball to pitch from a leg spinner then shoots on with decent bounce.

Look at his arm position - it's clearly a flipper

 

[thejockey]

The description of the flipper is a ball that "floats on" (further than the batsmen expects) and then shoots low to the ground. The richie one is a clear flipper.

The Stewart one doesn't float, it pitches exactly as you would expect a ball to pitch from a leg spinner then shoots on with decent bounce.

Two guys on the video who played some decent cricket both thought it was a flipper.

Top spinners will most likely rear up taking the splice of the bat or gloves . A lot of leggies top spinners almost present as wronguns because its a similar arm and wrist type action.
Flippers , shooters or whatever people want to call them get you bowled and lbw .

Anyway if its a toppy ( which im very confident it isnt ) it just proves Warnes genuis even more

 

[Pippen94]

Two guys on the video who played some decent cricket both thought it was a flipper.

Top spinners will most likely rear up taking the splice of the bat or gloves . A lot of leggies top spinners almost present as wronguns because its a similar arm and wrist type action.
Flippers , shooters or whatever people want to call them get you bowled and lbw .

Anyway if its a toppy ( which im very confident it isnt ) it just proves Warnes genuis even more

Here is Warne's description of Stewart wicket

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

 

[Power Raid]

Are spin bowlers allowed to bend the arm as much as pace bowlers these days?

From memory the have a 5 degree disadvantage. Perhaps fix the anomaly and we will see more variation

 

[MadTigerFan]

Because it ain't that easy.

 

[Yoda_]

My thoughts would be that Warne’s retirement coincided with the explosion of T20 cricket. There has been a mindset shift from taking wickets to restricting runs.

As a spinner if you’re not consistently landing balls in T20 you become very expensive very quickly due to the condensed and attacking nature of the contest. In a test match, Warne might have bowled 180 balls in an innings, of those, he might have bowled only a few flippers. Of those he bowled, he wouldn’t have landed all of them. If a spinner misses even 2 balls in a T20, it can easily cost 12 runs.

The point is that bowlers are being taught to bowl more defensively and therefore don’t bowl many variations for fear of costing runs.

I've been watching the BBL and these spinners who are in the prime age (Boyce, Zampa prime examples) should be pushing for higher honours are no where near the test team. Obviously Lyon is doing a good job but it begs the question, why can't they even get a crack at the squad, ala Swepson?

Defensive bowling which must be ruining so many bowlers from local cricket to the highest (non international) format. The ability to bowl tight far outweighs the need for wickets. Hopefully the BBL doesn't ruin Lloyd Pope's wicket taking ability.

 

[Richard Pryor]

Well I for one welcome our new Eyesight-over-Scientific-Analysis overlord

Whatever the analysis of Murali, I find it highly suspect that Narine, Ajmal, Botha, Williamson, and probably others all got the hammer put down on them after Murali retired (from memory).

 

[PhatBoy]

Whatever the analysis of Murali, I find it highly suspect that Narine, Ajmal, Botha, Williamson, and probably others all got the hammer put down on them after Murali retired (from memory).

Perhaps. None were subject to live experiments in lunch breaks of test matches either.

One of murali’s biggest problems is that people didn’t understand what a throw actually is. Ie. they saw a bent arm so judged it automatically. I always thought he had an unusual action but it never looked to me like a throw as such, it just looked like his arm was always bent. Ajmal to me looked like he straightened his arm from a bent position.

 

[big_e]

I've been watching the BBL and these spinners who are in the prime age (Boyce, Zampa prime examples) should be pushing for higher honours are no where near the test team. Obviously Lyon is doing a good job but it begs the question, why can't they even get a crack at the squad, ala Swepson?

Defensive bowling which must be ruining so many bowlers from local cricket to the highest (non international) format. The ability to bowl tight far outweighs the need for wickets. Hopefully the BBL doesn't ruin Lloyd Pope's wicket taking ability.

Test cricket isn't the be-all and end-all.

There are plenty of cricketers who specialise in either long-form or short-form cricket, and that's OK.

Adam Zampa has played for his country almost 80 times. He may be more than happy with that. Lloyd Pope hasn't shown much with the red ball (nine FC wickets, seven of them in one innings) but is doing OK in T20s. Perhaps that's something he should think about.