Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Malifice]

You can avoid religious legitimacy in other ways, by calling their interpretation a fundamentalist or extremist one. Claiming that it has nothing to do with the religion is wilfully delusional. .

Do you think Obama is being:

a) Wilfully delusional, or
b) Intentionally avoiding the label to avoid giving them legitimacy?

Remember; they want him to label them Islamic. Thats one of their stated goals (and they said as much in their recent publication in that devlish magazine they put out). They'd be over the moon if he said it.

Where you see some kind of leftist conspiracy, stop and consider their may actually be some thought behind why he doesnt go around slagging of Muslims in general like Trump, and avoids giving IS any kind of religious legitimacy (which would only strengthen their central argument and claims to be an Islamic Caliphate).

Rather than trying to protect them, he's denying them the legitmacy they crave.

 

[Lethality]

Do you think Obama is being:

a) Wilfully delusional, or
b) Intentionally avoiding the label to avoid giving them legitimacy?

I think the strategy is to try and define Islam in the hope that it becomes what they say it is.

Remember; they want him to label them Islamic. Thats one of their stated goals (and they said as much in their recent publication in that devlish magazine they put out).

If you're talking about Dabiq, their stated goals are already to destroy us because we don't believe in Islam. I don't believe in choosing our strategy by what they do or don't want either; they also want to fight us, and we are rightfully giving them that fight.

Where you see some kind of leftist conspiracy, stop and consider their may actually be some thought behind why he doesnt go around slagging of Muslims

I don't see a leftist conspiracy, and I have considered that there is some thought behind the rhetoric, I just think it's misguided.

 

[Malifice]

I think the strategy is to try and define Islam in the hope that it becomes what they say it is.

Then you're a fool. He's avoiding giving IS religious legitmacy becuase their entire platfomr is based on religious legitimacy. The Caliphate and all that. There was a reason why they choose the name 'Islamic State' why Bagdhati claims lineage from Mohammed, why they want us to accept them as Islamic.

You're arguing Obama go along with it and in effect declare war on Islam, or lump moderate Muslims who are as repulsed by IS as you and I are in with the terrorists.

If you cant see why that's stupid beyond all belief (at a minimum he legitimises IS and angers and ostrasizes the worlds Muslims, all in one fell swoop) and helps IS, then I cant help you.

He's running an angle that IS do not represent the worlds Muslims (as they claim) do not follow an interpretation of the Quran or practices accepted as Islamic by the majority of the worlds Muslims, and are a terrorist orginisation falsely claiming to be Islamic in order to obtain legitmacy, and to attract followers.

If you're talking about Dabiq, their stated goals are already to destroy us because we don't believe in Islam.

Their entire legitimacy (from their ability to recruit down) is based on their claim of being an Islamic State. Take that away from them and they're a bunch of barbarians.

You in effect want Obama to legitimise their claims to being an Islamic State and thus legitimise their actions to both them, and to many Muslims. Its counterproductive in the extreme. They'd be the first ones to publish 'Obama agrees we are the Islamic State' for their followers and on their propaganda to demonstrate their legitimacy and strengthen their core claims.

 

[Lethality]

Then you're a fool. He's avoiding giving IS religious legitmacy becuase their entire platfomr is based on religious legitimacy.

Already stated that labelling them as Islamic isn't necessarily giving them religious legitimacy, so to me it's not a question of whether Obama is avoiding giving them legitimacy, but why he's avoiding naming them. You're assuming he's avoiding granting legitimacy when that point hasn't been proven.

You're arguing Obama go along with it and in effect declare war on Islam, or lump moderate Muslims who are as repulsed by IS as you and I are in with the terrorists.

Quite the opposite, naming them as fundamentalist or extremist both separates them from ordinary Muslims or the likes of you and I, and also outlines the problematic areas of the religion.

He's running an angle that IS do not represent the worlds Muslims (as they claim)

They don't claim that at all, at least not by our definition of the word. They constantly refer to Muslims in their magazine as apostates rather than actual Muslims.

You in effect want Obama to legitimise their claims to being an Islamic State and thus legitimise their actions to both them, and to many Muslims.

As I have already stated, I don't believe calling someone an extremist or fundamentalist legitimises them. This applies to all branches of fundamentalist Islam, not just iS.

 

[Lethality]

Unfortunately only suspended jail time for these two. Also 1200 pounds of compensation.


Two Muslim men have been jailed after they brutally attacked a couple for eating a “blasphemous” ham pizza.

Youness Boussaid and Fatah Bouzid, both 27, approached their victims at a food vendor near Le Mix Bar in in Douai, France, and offered them cocaine.


GETTY IMAGES
2
Muslim men brutually attacked a couple for ordering ham on their pizza
When the two Arab men noticed ham on the couple’s pizza they told them they would “go to hell” for eating it.

The victim’s had spent the evening at the nearby nightclub before approaching the vendor for an evening snack.

After being accused of eating the ham, which is forbidden in the Islamic religion, the couple suffered a brutal and humiliating ordeal from their attackers.



The victims had spent the evening at the Mix bar before ordering a pizza from a nearby food vendor
The attackers caressed the woman’s blond hair before forcing their fingers into her nose, causing her to lose consciousness and fall to the ground.

They then began to beat her male friend before security staff from Le Mix Bar intervened.

 

[Malifice]

Unfortunately only suspended jail time for these two. Also 1200 pounds of compensation.


Two Muslim men have been jailed after they brutally attacked a couple for eating a “blasphemous” ham pizza.

Youness Boussaid and Fatah Bouzid, both 27, approached their victims at a food vendor near Le Mix Bar in in Douai, France, and offered them cocaine.


GETTY IMAGES
2
Muslim men brutually attacked a couple for ordering ham on their pizza
When the two Arab men noticed ham on the couple’s pizza they told them they would “go to hell” for eating it.

The victim’s had spent the evening at the nearby nightclub before approaching the vendor for an evening snack.

After being accused of eating the ham, which is forbidden in the Islamic religion, the couple suffered a brutal and humiliating ordeal from their attackers.



The victims had spent the evening at the Mix bar before ordering a pizza from a nearby food vendor
The attackers caressed the woman’s blond hair before forcing their fingers into her nose, causing her to lose consciousness and fall to the ground.

They then began to beat her male friend before security staff from Le Mix Bar intervened.

You reckon these blokes selling cocaine were either:

1) Devout Muslims genuinely offended that Kaffirs were eating pork?
OR
2) Drunken drug dealers looking for an excuse to be dick heads to people in a kebab shop outside a nightclub?

This article is a perfect example of 'blame Islam' when it's got next to zero to do with what happened.

Two meathead coke dealers stirring s**t. You post it as some kind of anti Muslim article.

You're unreal.

Also two paragraphs maximum and provide a link to the article or I'll delete it. Check the rules for posting articles.

 

[Malifice]

And they got 6 month jail terms according to the article in the far right wing Sun where I assume you got the article from.

 

[Lethality]

This article is a perfect example of 'blame Islam' when it's got next to zero to do with what happened.

Really? A couple of Muslims telling people that they will go to hell for eating ham and subsequently attacking them obviously has something to do with Islam.

And they got 6 month jail terms according to the article in the far right wing Sun where I assume you got the article from.

Suspended jail terms, yes.

 

[Malifice]

Really? A couple of Muslims telling people that they will go to hell for eating ham and subsequently attacking them obviously has something to do with Islam.


Suspended jail terms, yes.

They were cocaine dealers. At a nightclub!

They walked up to sell these peeps some Charlie, got told to bugger off and then started ******* with them over ham. It had next to zero to do with Islam and even less to do with the ham.

Have you ever gone out to a nightclub man?

And read the bloody article. They got 6 month jail sentences. The referral to suspended sentences was for something else entirely.

 

[Lethality]

They were cocaine dealers. At a nightclub!

The article says it was at a food vendor, not a nightclub.

They walked up to sell these peeps some Charlie, got told to bugger off and then started ******* with them over ham. It had next to zero to do with Islam and even less to do with the ham.

Yes, I've read the article, and your response. You think a couple of Muslims attacking people after telling them they are going to hell for eating ham has nothing to do with Islam. It's a ridiculous take.

 

[Malifice]

Yes, I've read the article, and your response. You think a couple of Muslims attacking people after telling them they are going to hell for eating ham has nothing to do with Islam. It's a ridiculous take.

Mate they were just looking for an excuse. They were cocaine dealers. Not devout Muslims!

Contemporary example:

Two Mormon pimps chill out in front of a brothel they operate. They notice a couple walking past on the way home from work. The Mormons offer the couple an hour with the hookers for a discount. When it's declined they beat up the couple because it's Sunday and they're on the way home from work.

Do you attribute the beating to Mormonism?

You're attributing a flimsy excuse for a beating (hey; you're eating ham!) by two drug dealers to Islam.

If you think this couple were accosted because of ham and Religious convictions of a bunch of drug dealers, you're the most naive person I've ever met.

 

[Malifice]

They're as devout a Muslim as you are.

 

[Lethality]

Mate they were just looking for an excuse. They were cocaine dealers. Not devout Muslims!

It sounds more like you're just looking for an excuse, after all you do openly support willful denial of actual links to Islam, so this just looks like another example of that imperative. The cocaine excuse is old, the same could be said for the 9/11 hijackers, or of other vices such as strippers, alcohol, gluttony during Ramadan, etc, not to mention that these dealers didn't necessarily partake. You're assuming that Muslims actually avoid the kind of substances they claim to, when that is not a reality.

You're attributing a flimsy excuse for a beating (hey; you're eating ham!) by two drug dealers to Islam.

I attribute it to many factors, one of them being Islam.

If you think this couple were accosted because of ham and Religious convictions of a bunch of drug dealers, you're the most naive person I've ever met.

As usual none of what you're accusing me of refers to anything I actually say. Naive would be to assume that devout people of any faith can't possibly have a substance abuse problem.

 

[Malifice]

It sounds more like you're just looking for an excuse, after all you do openly support willful denial of actual links to Islam, so this just looks like another example of that imperative. The cocaine excuse is old, the same could be said for the 9/11 hijackers.



I attribute it to many factors, one of them being Islam.



As usual none of what you're accusing me of maps onto anything I say.

So if a bunch of Jewish cocaine dealers approach me on the street, try and sell me drugs, and then beat me because I'm eating ham... that's Judaisms fault?

These guys are obviously devout Jews to you?

Ham might be haram mate, but how about coke? On a scale of 1-10 you're as logically consistent as these 'Muslims' who take issue with Kaffirs eating Ham but are totally OK with them taking cocaine.

 

[Lethality]

So if a bunch of Jewish cocaine dealers approach me on the street, try and sell me drugs, and then beat me because I'm eating ham... that's Judaisms fault?

I'm not ascribing 100% blame to anything, but I would suspect Judaism would be involved if a Jewish drug dealer told me I was going to hell for eating ham and then subsequently beat me up. It would definitely be one of the elements that I would remember and report to police.

Ham might be haram mate, but how about coke? On a scale of 1-10 you're as logically consistent as these 'Muslims' who take issue with Kaffirs eating Ham but are totally OK with them taking cocaine.

I'm discussing hypocrisy within religion, that's not logically inconsistent, it's just the reality. If we denied just ordinary people of being Muslim or Catholic based on their habits we could go on forever.

 

[Malifice]

I'm discussing hypocrisy within religion, that's not logically inconsistent, it's just the reality. If we denied just ordinary people of being Muslim or Catholic based on their habits we could go on forever.

How is this hypocrisy with religion?

I'm pretty sure Islam prohibits ham, cocaine AND knocking women out by jamming your fingers in their nose.

This isn't an example of hypocrisy of religion. It's an example of two douchebag drug dealers outside a nightclub.

I mean this kinda s**t happens all the time everywhere in the world that has a nightclub. The only reason it made the news was because it was so called Muslims doing it.

If you honestly think the religious sensibilities of these two coke dealers was offended on account of people eating ham, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Lethality]

How is this hypocrisy with religion?

I'm pretty sure Islam prohibits ham, cocaine AND knocking women out by jamming your fingers in their nose.

I think you just answered your own question.

I mean this kinda s**t happens all the time everywhere in the world that has a nightclub. The only reason it made the news was because it was so called Muslims doing it.

Unlikely that we're getting every incident of Muslim street violence, going by the numbers that wouldn't even be practical. It seems therefore that the reason it was reported was because of the stated religious motivation.

You honestly think the religious sensibilities of these two coke dealers was offended on account of people eating ham, I have a bridge to sell you.

It wouldn't even necessarily be about being offended, it could just as easily be about religious aggression, and I have referred to at least one prior incident of cocaine use and Islamic militancy, so it's far from being out of the question for the most serious offences, let alone relatively minor street violence.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You can avoid religious legitimacy in other ways, by calling their interpretation a fundamentalist or extremist one. Claiming that it has nothing to do with the religion is willfully delusional. .

Sure, Muslims commit terrorist acts.....Just as Christians, Atheists, Buddhists & Hindus have done.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam......The religion in this case is both circumstantial & consequential.

These acts were sparked off because of U.S foreign policy & illegitimate acts of aggression prefaced upon a lie....They are political first & foremost & a direct consequence of WAR.

Enough with your anti religious, anti-Muslim bigotry....It's utter BS & groundless tiresome propaganda.

 

[Lethality]

Sure, Muslims commit terrorist acts.....Just as Christians, Atheists, Buddhists & Hindus have done.

Let's not pretend they do it in equal numbers. I would be sure that atheist terrorism for example lags behind Islamic terrorism.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam......

Do you have a bar graph or something with the rate of terrorism for each religion?

These acts were sparked off because of U.S foreign policy & illegitimate acts of aggression prefaced upon a lie....They are political first & foremost & a direct consequence of WAR.

Nah, ISIS themselves say the acts are because we're not accepting Islam. US foreign policy is like 5th on their list.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Let's not pretend they do it in equal numbers. I would be sure that atheist terrorism for example lags behind Islamic terrorism.

Do you have a bar graph or something with the rate of terrorism for each religion?

More silliness....NO one could tally the numbers....Given Islam's age, it'd be well back in the field.....Some historical perspective podge, please.

Regardless, the religion is always consequential to the politics.


You are Blaming Islam for the fact of Arabs occupying High-yield, high-demand, coveted natural resources.....That's what your argument amounts to.....It's laughable.

 

[JackOutback]

I once saw a bloke belt someone because he didn't like what he was wearing. Obviously we all blamed the fashion industry because his extreme views on clothing reflects on them all. At no point did we consider he was a knob looking for a fight.

 

[Maggie5]

Sure, Muslims commit terrorist acts.....Just as Christians, Atheists, Buddhists & Hindus have done.

Terrorism is not unique to Islam......The religion in this case is both circumstantial & consequential.

These acts were sparked off because of U.S foreign policy & illegitimate acts of aggression prefaced upon a lie....They are political first & foremost & a direct consequence of WAR.

Enough with your anti religious, anti-Muslim bigotry....It's utter BS & groundless tiresome propaganda.

I blame it on the ham, should have been hot salami.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I blame it on the ham, should have been hot salami.

Mmmmmm chicken salami.

 

[Eagle Empire]

I blame it on the ham, should have been hot salami.

Yes, it's the fault of the assault victims

 

[Maggie5]

Yes, it's the fault of the assault victims