Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

demondavey

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The only real difference is sheer weight of numbers.

In Australia its a couple vs dozens.

Globally its hundreds vs tens of thousands.
Haha! What a load of bulls**t. There were deaths attributed to right wing extremists last year than Muslim terrorists in America! I just posted an article!

God you’re one eyed and ignorant
 

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The Emu

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Can you name the people doing that ? Should be easy enough to provide quotes too.

WTF is with apologists who turn a blind eye to the vastly higher levels of violence and oppression in one particular religion ahead of all other big religions.

Easy enough to do isnt it?
Because part of Islam is to defend it and 'spread the word' even in the face of clear facts that suggest it certainly is not the religion of peace many of them claim. The middle east would be a peaceful place if Islam itself was peaceful. Look at Islamic majority countries and think about what kind of society it is - is it open and welcoming? Does it preach tolerance for homosexuality and womens rights? Is it a democratic society that promotes differences of opinion? The only people defending Islam are Muslims and those who hate America. They blame America for all Islamic violence even though the majority of violence is between the different sects of Islam - can you figure out the common denominator?
 

HairyO

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Haha! What a load of bulls**t. There were deaths attributed to right wing extremists last year than Muslim terrorists in America! I just posted an article!

God you’re one eyed and ignorant
America being the only country on the planet....

BTW does it only matter once people die? I would think planned vs successful would be the key stat.
 

The Emu

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America being the only country on the planet....

BTW does it only matter once people die? I would think planned vs successful would be the key stat.
No.. Which is why I mentioned the treatment of homosexuals and women in Islamic majority countries. It's disgusting.

This is the reality of Islam.. Those who believe Muslims who try to sell it as some sort of religion of peace and love are living on another planet.
 

demondavey

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America being the only country on the planet....

BTW does it only matter once people die? I would think planned vs successful would be the key stat.
It’s a glaringly obvious issue in a country with a clear agenda against Muslims particularly through their government stance.

Planned vs Successful? Now you’re just clutching at straws. In this country for example we have a woman every week murdered by her domestic partner. 52 a year. Since September 11 that’s around 1000 homicides. I wonder how many deaths in this country are attributed to terrorism since 9/11? Might be worth putting things in perspective re how much emphasis we need to put on issues at hand rather than a bit of an irrational fear at times.
 

demondavey

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Can you name the people doing that ? Should be easy enough to provide quotes too.

WTF is with apologists who turn a blind eye to the vastly higher levels of violence and oppression in one particular religion ahead of all other big religions.

Easy enough to do isnt it?
Not really. Show me where this violence is occurring in our society.
 

demondavey

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Because part of Islam is to defend it and 'spread the word' even in the face of clear facts that suggest it certainly is not the religion of peace many of them claim. The middle east would be a peaceful place if Islam itself was peaceful. Look at Islamic majority countries and think about what kind of society it is - is it open and welcoming? Does it preach tolerance for homosexuality and womens rights? Is it a democratic society that promotes differences of opinion? The only people defending Islam are Muslims and those who hate America. They blame America for all Islamic violence even though the majority of violence is between the different sects of Islam - can you figure out the common denominator?
Again, massive generalised load of bulls**t
 

demondavey

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Others drawing a comparison between the arrests made in Sydney and Tarrant. IMO clearly a coordinated group vs an individual.
Mate Tarrant was part of an online right wing extremist group. Irrespective of whether it’s coordinated or not, the outcome is still the same right? 49 people dead.

Or according to you and your mates are we better off with 49 Muslims being killed?
 

AbrahamS

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Mate Tarrant was part of an online right wing extremist group. Irrespective of whether it’s coordinated or not, the outcome is still the same right? 49 people dead.

Or according to you and your mates are we better off with 49 Muslims being killed?
“Irrespective,” wow. The “coordinated” part is what makes it way more serious IMO. Being part of an online group in no way equates to these chaps in Sydney.

Is the world better off with 49 innocent people killed? Never.

Are Muslims that want Sharia compatible with Western society? From the NYT: Link Deleted, Google NYT, The Killing of Farkhunda (Warning: Graphic Violent mob killing a woman for allegedly burning a copy of the Quran)
 
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Steinfreo

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hey Shapiro load bearers, can you guys just go look at the studies yourselves and see that the exact opposite to what Ben is telling you is happening. On average muslims are moderating and trending away from radicalism. Just go read it for yourself. Go look at the actual data from the surveys and look at the facts, PUT ASIDE YOUR FEELINGS FOR ONE MINUTE. People on the right are so about their feelings, you could almost say they are a form of frozen water that comes from the sky in winter.
 

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Malifice

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The only real difference is sheer weight of numbers.

In Australia its a couple vs dozens.

Globally its hundreds vs tens of thousands.
You're aware that Islamic fundamentalism is a form of far right wing ideology itself right?

It's paternal, mysoginistic, patriarchal, authoritarian, reactionary and conservative.

Islamic State run a narrative that the 'West' is at war with 'Islam'.

This is exactly the same narrative pushed by the far Right in the West as well.
 

Malifice

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I'm not disputing he's a terrorist. The difference between him and the Islamic terrorists is sheer numbers and a global reach. For example the raids yesterday involved 3 people working together. Tarrant was alone.
Tarrant wasnt alone. He clearly stated in his manifesto that he sought out others in the Far Right in the planning of his attack.
 

HairyO

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You're aware that Islamic fundamentalism is a form of far right wing ideology itself right?

It's paternal, mysoginistic, patriarchal, authoritarian, reactionary and conservative.

Islamic State run a narrative that the 'West' is at war with 'Islam'.

This is exactly the same narrative pushed by the far Right in the West as well.
Which is why to avoid confusion I said Islamic terrorism vs all other types of terrorism.

What I find interesting is the zealous need to find a religious reason in non Muslims committing terrorist acts and the need to excuse Muslim terrorists as being mentally unwell.

Though I dare say religious preachings of death to infidels from a very young age will most likely totally fu** you up in the head.
 

Balls In

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Tarrant wasnt alone. He clearly stated in his manifesto that he sought out others in the Far Right in the planning of his attack.
In the absence of any evidence who knows? Whereas yesterday three men with direct links to an international terrorist organisation were arrested for conspiring to murder innocent Australians. How many people were they talking to in Australia and overseas?
 

hawks realist

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In the absence of any evidence who knows? Whereas yesterday three men with direct links to an international terrorist organisation were arrested for conspiring to murder innocent Australians. How many people were they talking to in Australia and overseas?
1 was deported from Lebanon to Australia and de-radicalised for 2 years. That went well and was a great idea to bring him back.

Bit like Sharroufs kids,they will get to learn off his brother how to belt the s**t out of your missus and break her cheek and crush vertebrae. Then shave her head.
 

demondavey

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“Irrespective,” wow. The “coordinated” part is what makes it way more serious IMO. Being part of an online group in no way equates to these chaps in Sydney.

Is the world better off with 49 innocent people killed? Never.

Are Muslims that want Sharia compatible with Western society? From the NYT: Link Deleted, Google NYT, The Killing of Farkhunda (Warning: Graphic Violent mob killing a woman for allegedly burning a copy of the Quran)
Being part of an online group doesn’t equate? What do you think they do? Catch up and share muffin recipes? The kind of dialogue they engage in indirectly facilitates radicalised and extreme behaviour.

You’d have to be an absolute numpty to think otherwise.

Oh wait....
 

demondavey

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I'm not disputing he's a terrorist. The difference between him and the Islamic terrorists is sheer numbers and a global reach. For example the raids yesterday involved 3 people working together. Tarrant was alone.
A global reach? Do you think the right radical Internet forums run off an LAN?
 

Malifice

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In the absence of any evidence who knows? Whereas yesterday three men with direct links to an international terrorist organisation were arrested for conspiring to murder innocent Australians. How many people were they talking to in Australia and overseas?
There was direct evidence in Tarrants case. We know that he contacted several prominent Far Right figures in the lead up to the attacks. He said as much in his manifesto he posted online the day he carried out the attacks.

Attacks that were announced and streamed online by people sypathetic to his cause, on sites that were equally sympathetic.

I really dont get the distinction you're trying to draw here between Tarrant and other (Islamic) terrorists?
 

demondavey

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In the absence of any evidence who knows? Whereas yesterday three men with direct links to an international terrorist organisation were arrested for conspiring to murder innocent Australians. How many people were they talking to in Australia and overseas?

Very active online
 

Balls In

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I really dont get the distinction you're trying to draw here between Tarrant and other (Islamic) terrorists?
Islam is a practiced by billions of people all over the globe and a not insignificant proportion have been shown to actively follow an extreme version that calls for violence against non believers. This has manifested in hundreds of attacks against innocent people involving thousands of Islamic terrorists.

That's the difference between Brevik and Tarrant. The scale is completely skewed due to religion being a central indoctrination. How many people were killed in Sri Lanka and how many operatives were involved? How many shooters in any of the Paris attacks, any of the north African resort attacks, India, London, Bali, 9/11? In contrast Tarrant and Brevik were lone rangers (acknowledging that yes they probably did talk to other racists online but that is a bloody long bow to compare with people actively involved in the planning and execution of such attrocities).
 
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Malifice

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Islam is a practiced by billions of people all over the globe and a not insignificant proportion have been shown to actively follow an extreme version that calls for violence against non believers. This has manifested in hundreds of attacks against innocent people involving thousands of Islamic terrorists.
I agree.

That's the difference between Brevik and Tarrant. The scale is completely skewed due to religion being a central indoctrination.
Tarrant followed an ideology of Far Right wing extremism and Fascism (as opposed to Islamic extremism).

Do you want a running sheet of how many people have been killed on account of Far Right extremism, Fascism, Ultra-nationalism, Nazism etc?

I mean come on; lets at least agree that Far-Right wing and ultra conservative ideologies (Fascism, Nazism, ultra-nationalism) are at least as dangerous and pervasive as Islamic fundamentalism.

Both Islamic fundamentalism and Far Right wing ultra-nationalism/ fascism are identical in many respects. They're reactionary, patriarchal, ultra-conservative, ethnocentric, right wing and paternalistic ideologies.

How many people were killed in Sri Lanka and how many operatives were involved? How many shooters in any of the Paris attacks, any of the north African resort attacks, India, London, Bali, 9/11? In contrast Tarrant and Brevik were lone rangers (acknowledging that yes they probably did talk to other racists online but that is a bloody long bow to compare with people actively involved in the planning and execution of such attrocities).
I agree partly in relation to this point also.

ISIS (and similar Islamist orginisations) actively target, train and recruit operatives to specifically carry out terror attacks, whereas the 'Alt-Right' and similar Neo-nazi and Fascist supporters and groups generally speaking, dont actively recruit followers to do so (although such attacks often gain the tacit support or at least indeifference from those with similar RWNJ ideological backgrounds). The RWNJ terrorist's we've seen have almost all been radicalised lone wolf types, rather than individuals following direction from a group or answering to a heirarchy.

Of course the same can be said for a lot of Islamist terrorists as well. Most of them follow a similar pattern to the RWNJ types, in that they're generally socially isolated young men, often with troubled backgrounds, who get radicalised online (via social media) and carry out attacks without any direction or answering to a specific heirarchy.

If I went on a random killing spree and screamed Alluah Akbar as I did it, ISIS would claim responsibility, despite me never talking to anyone in that orginisation, ever (and vice versa).
 
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JackOutback

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Islam is a practiced by billions of people all over the globe and a not insignificant proportion have been shown to actively follow an extreme version that calls for violence against non believers. This has manifested in hundreds of attacks against innocent people involving thousands of Islamic terrorists.

That's the difference between Brevik and Tarrant. The scale is completely skewed due to religion being a central indoctrination. How many people were killed in Sri Lanka and how many operatives were involved? How many shooters in any of the Paris attacks, any of the north African resort attacks, India, London, Bali, 9/11? In contrast Tarrant and Brevik were lone rangers (acknowledging that yes they probably did talk to other racists online but that is a bloody long bow to compare with people actively involved in the planning and execution of such attrocities).
If Islam is practised by billions, and the number of far right extremists is tiny in comparison, then on a per capita basis, aren't the far right extremists far more deadly?
 

demondavey

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Islam is a practiced by billions of people all over the globe and a not insignificant proportion have been shown to actively follow an extreme version that calls for violence against non believers. This has manifested in hundreds of attacks against innocent people involving thousands of Islamic terrorists.

That's the difference between Brevik and Tarrant. The scale is completely skewed due to religion being a central indoctrination. How many people were killed in Sri Lanka and how many operatives were involved? How many shooters in any of the Paris attacks, any of the north African resort attacks, India, London, Bali, 9/11? In contrast Tarrant and Brevik were lone rangers (acknowledging that yes they probably did talk to other racists online but that is a bloody long bow to compare with people actively involved in the planning and execution of such attrocities).
So according to this billions of Muslims follow a version of extremism and violence? You’re prepared to speak on behalf of a billion people?
 

Balls In

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If Islam is practised by billions, and the number of far right extremists is tiny in comparison, then on a per capita basis, aren't the far right extremists far more deadly?
Crazy talk. What percentage of western populations comprise muslims and who are committing 98% of terrorist attacks? Outside of western countries where are so many of the worlds conflicts?
 
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