Why the Spin?

[Crow-mo]

Hasn't this 'spin' word creeped into the vernacular of late.

that's because its been borrowed from UK politics, where its been the order of the day for over a decade. see Campbell, Alastair.

[quote
It may have some merit, NC hasn't really commented on lack of preparation before. Which by him not saying anything implies it isn't a problem. You could say then that was 'spin' by silence in making us feel it all would be ok.[/QUOTE]

precisely. He hasn't. including at the time. and not just be silence, at the time he was making grand predictions.

 

[Crow-mo]

"In the end, Adelaide had too many young bodies who were spent, just as West Coast had found the week before."

That was Emma Quayle's view.

We are going to have fade outs when we're playing guys like Sloane, Armstrong, Davis, Jaensch, Walker, Schmidt, Petrenko, Gunston, Henderson and Cook - none of whom were regulars last year and most of whom have single digit game tallies. We've been playing 5-6 of these guys each week all year - about 25% of our side.

I don't think it's much a stretch to say those players don't yet have the fitness to go toe to toe with St Kilda for a full 100 minutes.

for a start, not all of those played together at once.

secondly, the point remains this wasn't an issue in the last three weeks. why suddenly now.

match fitness should be increasing as more games are played, heck it was only a few weeks ago the club was talking about needing to get more games into players legs to get them up to proper match condition. fine, but why suddenly do they go backwards? that sounds very convenient.

 

[Crow-mo]

Craig always excuses the players in public.

After last years finals choke, he said in the post match interview that while the third quarter wasn't good, it's not too bad because we came back in the fourth.

Earlier this year he was very supportive of the older players, but two of them have now been dropped.

Even after the North debacle he said gentle things like "we need to find a valid reason for that performance."

Whether this is part of a calculated approach to maximise morale, or just a sense of loyalty to preserving the players' reputation is not clear.

What he says in private is not clear. I suspect he is a lot tougher than he would seem from his public persona.

There's no point expecting him to come out after all this time and get stuck into a rubbish performance, it would be totally inconsistent with exposed form.

OK, I can probably buy this to some extent. How much is actually the case isn't clear, but it still shows a certain disregard for the supporter base.

Something NC has shown himself to be more than capable of this year. Incidentally I don't mind the attitude of the supporters can **** off, the results will placate them; in principle; but you better be delivering those results. which he isn't.

 

[Crow-mo]

As Vader said, players do not always return from injury at 100%. Then Crow-Mo compare this to fairy tales and the easter bunny. If a player is at 100% peak physical fitness and pulls his hamstring resulting in 4 weeks off injured, that player will not return in 5 weeks time at 100% peak physical fitness.

lets be clear about something, this was a strawman when Vader raised it the first time, and you're just recycling it as someone who has always wanted desperately to believe it's all and only the injuries.

No one including me, has EVER said a player comes back at 100%. What has been said is that every team has injuries, every team has interrupted pre-seasons, and still expects minimum standards.

if a player can't perform at an even basic level, due to a lack of fitness, you do not select them until they can. whether that is 70/80% whatever.

once you take the field, you expect a minimum level of performance. No one has ever demanded a maximum level of performance straight away, though over time it is right to expect a player to move further along the curve closer towards peak.

we are in round 10, not week 2 of the preseason matches.

 

[Crow-mo]

I watched NC full after match interview today. It's worth taking a look at. Conditioning is the consistent message throughout the entire thing, some statements are obviously missed in the newspapers. Craigy suggests that each area of the ground is currently impacted by poor conditioning of one or more key players:

Backline: Nathan Bock - match fitness not where it should be. He also said Phil Davis needed further match fitness, but appeared to base his lack of "conditioning" on his age and the fact he is in game 10 of his career

Midfield: DMac, 4 weeks off, 2.5 of which he was unable to do conditioning work

Forward: Porps, said his season is the product of poor conditioning

He then went on to say that the perfect example of a player who got a good pre-season in and has pushed themselves throughout the year is Richie Douglas. NC also said that he wanted to see players pushing themselves in the final quarter to improve their conditioning because the with recovery requirements it is difficult to get that conditioning base at training.

There were parts of the interview i found quiet interesting. In particular the fact that we'll be trying different structures for the rest of the season, including ruck structures. I think we'll see Sellar come in at some stage.

Overall, listening to the interview, it didn't strike me as 'spin', although admittedly I don't think i've ever heard an AFL coach blame injuries and conditioning to the extent that NC did and without prefacing it with the old "we're not going to use injuries as an excuse" line. Clearly NC thinks our injury and conditioning situation is genuinely and issue. I can't say i blame him. So in short, i guess i disagree with your use of the word 'spin' .

I'd be ok with this, if he wasn't just rolling out this line after 3 weeks of performances where we have run out the game just fine. over run the opposition in 2 of them.

Bock played 3 of the 4 preseason games (not sure some insist on saying it was only 2, it was 3) and 7 of the 10 games. I can accept he is not at 100%, I do not accept that having played a total of 10 games that he is so far below expected standards.

or at least if he is, what does that say about our expectations?

consider Bernie Vince, I only heard recently he came back 4kg's heavy from the offseason, and we know he had hamstring issues to start with. Now that is someone you could pretty easily see having fitness issues.

However, I would be pretty worried about that at the time, that our best onballer has turned up fresh from the Johncock school of offschool preparation. This might have an impact on my expectations for the season coming up. Unless I thought we cover it.

 

[Crow-mo]

I'm not sure it would have been too different to last years though. Last year, unlike previous years, we were actually peaking at the right time of the year, unfortunately we stumbled, only just as well, in the Semi against Collingwood.

Now for whatever reason, our preseason was average, many were expressing their concerns well before the NAB cup, honestly, I thought we could get over it, clearly I was wrong. We are not a side who is fit enough to challenge top 4 sides. Sure, we can still match it for 4 quarters with competition easy beats like the Roos and the Tigers, or an injury ravaged Brisbane at home, but against genuine top 4, or even top 8 sides we have no hope. We're good enough to go with them, or even beat them for a quarter or 2 and we've shown this, unfortunately we just can't sustain this. In fact, I believe one of the commentators last night commented that when we're going, we're a definite top 8 side.

Now there's certainly other issues at play, I'm lead to believe there's one or two players around the club who are causing a bit of disharmony. I also believe as a club we got ahead of ourselves during the preseason, became too arrogant and just believed the hype far too much and as a result, the players felt that they merely needed to "rock up" and they would beat sides like Port or Fremantle. Its too late to change too much this season, we now need a preseason to assess, reset and reload, I think we'll see a much improved Adelaide next season.

As for the spin, what's new? Clubs use spin all the time, they're just like politicians. I rarely bother to listen to/read what coaches have to say during the season, its generally just the same old crap trotted out each week, it just differs depending the current status quo. Its what the club does both on the field and off it that I care about. I'm sure the club could say whatever they liked in their current situation and they'd still be widely criticised for saying it.

I think as we see the season go on, we'll see the club become more open and honest. At the beginning of the season we probably wanted to protect the fact that many of our players were massively underdone, even though it was rather quite obvious. However, as the season wears on, there'll be little point being cagey about what's happening at the footy club and the club will start to inform us of what really went wrong.

James,

I don't agree with all of this, but you make some good points

 

[Geoffa32]

My first thought on our capitulation in the final quarter was of player fitness. Didnt realise Craigy mentioned it and "spun it" till logged on today.

We matched the Saints till our younger guys and players who have lacked games and base fitness ran out of gas.

 

[Geoffa32]

James,

I don't agree with all of this, but you make some good points

I also agree with the bolded bits.

People are getting into Craigy and his gameplan etc. But what I see in the live games I have been to, all home and away to Melbourne is a lack of players putting in, whcih could be attributed to underestimating the opposition.

Think back to teh 2008 Final against the Pies, that is why we lost that game.

 

[Crow-mo]

what so many of these replies are not taking account of, is the timing.

the timing is what makes these statements all the more inexplicable.

 

[Geoffa32]

How you mean?

 

[Crow-mo]

I mean this was written on Feb 13.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26714929-23211,00.html?from=public_rss

long after all the preseason fitness base work has been done.

 

[Geoffa32]

I mean this was written on Feb 13.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26714929-23211,00.html?from=public_rss

long after all the preseason fitness base work has been done.

See what you mean.

 

[smoovy]

that's because its been borrowed from UK politics, where its been the order of the day for over a decade. see Campbell, Alastair.

It may have some merit, NC hasn't really commented on lack of preparation before. Which by him not saying anything implies it isn't a problem. You could say then that was 'spin' by silence in making us feel it all would be ok.

precisely. He hasn't. including at the time. and not just be silence, at the time he was making grand predictions.

I think the grand predictions were a reaction to previous media criticisms that he trots out the same line every year about the goal being to make the finals.

NC was just giving a bit more, if you like less spin than he normally gives. Surely anyway the goal every year is to win a premiership. All Craig did was set the goal basically one step up from last years result. If he said anything less then it would be construed as going backwards or stagnating.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Bottom line: the acoltyes will believe regardless, and this only noises up the iconoclasts. what can be the point of such blatant spin?

I love it when you talk dirty.

 

[Jars458]

Anyone read the article in the Mail today where Chapman was quoted about Craig's handling of the Edwards situation. Pure and utter hogwash. Can't believe he would have kept a straight face when saying it.

Now that was spin.

I suppose I could dig out the quotes but will make you work for the laugh.

 

[Allefgib]

Anyone read the article in the Mail today where Chapman was quoted about Craig's handling of the Edwards situation. Pure and utter hogwash. Can't believe he would have kept a straight face when saying it.

Now that was spin.

I suppose I could dig out the quotes but will make you work for the laugh.

Just finished reading it downstairs actually. I was quite amused

 

[Crow-mo]

I love it when you talk dirty.

ooh baby, sometime next week?

 

[Crow-mo]

Anyone read the article in the Mail today where Chapman was quoted about Craig's handling of the Edwards situation. Pure and utter hogwash. Can't believe he would have kept a straight face when saying it.

Now that was spin.

I suppose I could dig out the quotes but will make you work for the laugh.

awww c'mon. is it online?

 

[Southerntakeover]

I honestly cant believe Porpy is being given a free pass for 'lack of match fitness' by the coach...

Hes played practically every game this year! How long does it take this prick to get fit?

 

[Allefgib]

I mean this was written on Feb 13.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26714929-23211,00.html?from=public_rss

long after all the preseason fitness base work has been done.

I personally found this one most damning in the context you've given in this thread:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ach-the-top-four/story-e6frecoc-1225842745459

March 19th

Craig wants his Crows to aim higher than anyone expects outside his clubhouse.

"Our expectations? They are high - and what should they be?" said Craig. "The bar should go up. There should be no limitations (to expectations). We should challenge for the top four."

Regardless of the stress fatigue factor exposed in Adelaide's injury list during the pre-season, Craig describes his squad as "very healthy" and able to achieve "improved on-field performances".

 

[Crow-mo]

ah, I understand now.

Craigy is dyslexic. He thought he said bottom four.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

lets be clear about something, this was a strawman when Vader raised it the first time, and you're just recycling it as someone who has always wanted desperately to believe it's all and only the injuries.

No one including me, has EVER said a player comes back at 100%. What has been said is that every team has injuries, every team has interrupted pre-seasons, and still expects minimum standards.

if a player can't perform at an even basic level, due to a lack of fitness, you do not select them until they can. whether that is 70/80% whatever.

once you take the field, you expect a minimum level of performance. No one has ever demanded a maximum level of performance straight away, though over time it is right to expect a player to move further along the curve closer towards peak.

we are in round 10, not week 2 of the preseason matches.

Never have I said it is ALL the injuries either. Im sure Adelaide would play other players IF there was much else to choose from. Bock was not playing anywhere near last season. Do you suggest we drop Bock and bring in Young? Bocks poor form is still better than what Young would bring into the side. Sometimes it isnt right to from an out of form player or a player without match fitness.

Yes it is round 10. As you can see we were competitive against last years Grand Finalist for 3 quarters. Thats more of an effort we put in against Sydney, Freo, WB, Roos, Carlton.

 

[Vader]

I honestly cant believe Porpy is being given a free pass for 'lack of match fitness' by the coach...

Hes played practically every game this year! How long does it take this prick to get fit?

He's not a player who is inherently super fit - like Burton or VB. He has to work at it.

Porps has played almost every game this year, but he missed the entire pre-season. This means that he missed out on building the base fitness. Players don't improve their fitness during the season - actually it goes backwards. Their recovery sessions etc mean that they can't get the workload into them required to improve their fitness - well, they could, but the players would be so run down as to be useless during the games on the weekend.

Bock is another who missed out on the entire pre-season training program. Since then, he's had a series of injuries and his latest streak (5 games) is the longest he's managed this season. I have very little doubt that his injuries are connected to his lack of pre-season fitness.

It's all very well to suggest that we shouldn't be playing these players who aren't fit enough to run a game out to the end. I agree 100% in theory. The problem is that our injury list is so long that we have very little choice but to play them before they are really ready.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Vader, theres an inherent contradiction in claiming that playing these guys will develop match fitness, and working on the (true) claim that players generally regress in match fitness throughout the season. Im not convinced that its not possible for a tailored program to be created that allows players to work towards regaining fitness, whilst playing. The tapering down of work is generally done to avoid over strain, which isnt necessarily an issue for guys that havent had pre season. We do pay a football department big money to come up with these fitness plans for gods sake.

If as you claim, playing wont develop Porpys fitness, then we never should have played him to begin. He should have stayed out of football, and done the running necessary to allow him to play a role.

 

[Vader]

Vader, theres an inherent contradiction in claiming that playing these guys will develop match fitness, and working on the (true) claim that players generally regress in match fitness throughout the season. Im not convinced that its not possible for a tailored program to be created that allows players to work towards regaining fitness, whilst playing. The tapering down of work is generally done to avoid over strain, which isnt necessarily an issue for guys that havent had pre season. We do pay a football department big money to come up with these fitness plans for gods sake.

If as you claim, playing wont develop Porpys fitness, then we never should have played him to begin. He should have stayed out of football, and done the running necessary to allow him to play a role.

Presumably they're reasoning that a 60-70% fit Porplzyia is still better than a 100% fit Rory Sloane, Tony Armstrong or Jack Gunston. Given the length of the injury list, that's the alternatives. To be honest, I'm not sure they're right - but that's the equation.

If we had a full list to choose from, then maybe they would be resting Porplyzia while he regains fitness. Maybe.. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury.