Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Pamcake1]

Lynn was a pilot, I wonder if he had any affairs.

Whether he did or not is not the issue.
It is a trope within the aviation industry.
Doesn't compute to be of any value thinking about it IMO.
On the topic of morality I would be more interested to know whether his moral turpitude means a habituation to dispatching people and constancy of callous disregard for living beings.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

I think the music being turned up by GL was ...childish...but was trying to piss off Russell. And that it did.

Russell probably asked fairly sternly for him to turn it down. Russell sees gun and takes it as he walks back to camp. GL, already annoyed that Russell has evidence that may cost him a lucrative job as a pilot, kills him with knife and subsequently kills Carol with gun. All evidence then destroyed.

 

[Kurve]

I think the music being turned up by GL was ...childish...but was trying to piss off Russell. And that it did.

Russell probably asked fairly sternly for him to turn it down. Russell sees gun and takes it as he walks back to camp. GL, already annoyed that Russell has evidence that may cost him a lucrative job as a pilot, kills him with knife and subsequently kills Carol with gun. All evidence then destroyed.

Not real sure GL did turn the music up or if it's a case of his preparedness to admit to doing a childish thing to make it fit in to his scheme of how things happened. IMO.

With the weight of a possible life sentence he's facing, he's now also prepared to admit to the lesser firearms offences.

 

[Pamcake1]

Returning to post #6683 (Thanks BadDog btw that was far clearer info than previously reported by other journos)
"The jury was told that in March 2022, police re-examined the Bucks Camp site and discovered metal and bone fragments, including an unburnt skull fragment allegedly belonging to Clay. It’s the prosecution case that the metal projectile fragment likely came from a 12-gauge shotgun and contained Clay’s DNA. Further fragments of human skull bones, believed to have belonged to Clay, were also later collected from the scene.
First bolded bit: multiples for both projectiles and bone or one of metal and several of bone?
One projectile mentioned here so more than likely as has been said before not pellets but solid slug. (but if multiple metal found disproven)
Forensics will no doubt be about where these fragments were found to support & explain the earlier evidence we heard about in the commital of C either bending down or kneeling down. IMO She was crouched low, hiding behind the only solid protection offered in the campsite...it was dark and there's a man with a gun, no time to think, would you run off into the bush or would you seek cover behind something solid?

They found burnt remains while focusing on an area at the base of a fallen tree, the prosecutor said. The remains had included a burnt human tibia, or leg bone, and a toe bone. The jury was told further remains found nearby included more than 2100 pieces of burnt and highly fragmented bones.
2100 pieces! I don't even know where to start...
206 bones in a human body x 2 = 406
2100 divided by 406 = 5.17
"The temperature to cremate a body is between 800 and 1000 degrees Celsius. The intense heat within the industrial furnace, known as the cremation chamber, ensures disintegration of the body as it reduces the body to its basic chemical compounds of gases, ashes and mineral fragments." ref; Google

(My Google history is going to be damning should I turn to nefarious deeds in the future..."all for wanting to know stuff for BF chatter your honour" sic.)

 

[Angry_Crow]

Jury comes in after and leaves before the accused, so they wouldn't witness it. It does seem a little over the top but you don't know what goes on in other peoples relationships. I have my own thoughts on what I would think of my partner if they had done the things he has admitted to....

The wave and kiss seemed to get bigger as the week went on- thought she’d almost fall over the balcony today.

 

[Pamcake1]

Not real sure GL did turn the music up or if it's a case of his preparedness to admit to doing a childish thing to make it fit in to his scheme of how things happened. IMO.

With the weight of a possible life sentence he's facing, he's now also prepared to admit to the lesser firearms offences.

Given that as has been said take most of the truth for your story of lies...
Wouldn't it be possible or likely that there was in fact music turned up to drown out sounds as Gl didn't know who could be out there and how much they could hear or testify to have heard at a later date.

 

[Pamcake1]

The wave and kiss seemed to get bigger as the week went on- thought she’d almost fall over the balcony today.

"She doth protest too much" ???

 

[Dirh Semaj]

Not real sure GL did turn the music up or if it's a case of his preparedness to admit to doing a childish thing to make it fit in to his scheme of how things happened. IMO.

With the weight of a possible life sentence he's facing, he's now also prepared to admit to the lesser firearms offences.

I see your point Kurve, though in my opinion he did turn the music up and knows this may have been heard by other people so it's part of the story.

I feel the defence is doing their very best to get the best result for their client. Possibly weighing the fact he will be found guilty and looking further to the appeal.

Let's face it ...a good result for GL will be the least possible sentence after a verdict of manslaughter....

 

[Kurve]

I see your point Kurve, though in my opinion he did turn the music up and knows this may have been heard by other people so it's part of the story.

I feel the defence is doing their very best to get the best result for their client. Possibly weighing the fact he will be found guilty and looking further to the appeal.

Let's face it ...a good result for GL will be the least possible sentence after a verdict of manslaughter....

Given that as has been said take most of the truth for your story of lies...
Wouldn't it be possible or likely that there was in fact music turned up to drown out sounds as Gl didn't know who could be out there and how much they could hear or testify to have heard at a later date.

Yes, it's entirely possible that he did turn the music up to drown out other sounds that might be overheard. Which adds an extra layer of sinister in to the situation.

Did they find a silencer at his house? I think they did.

 

[Pamcake1]

I think the music being turned up by GL was ...childish...but was trying to piss off Russell. And that it did.

Russell probably asked fairly sternly for him to turn it down. Russell sees gun and takes it as he walks back to camp. GL, already annoyed that Russell has evidence that may cost him a lucrative job as a pilot, kills him with knife and subsequently kills Carol with gun. All evidence then destroyed.

IMO I don't accept that "Russell sees gun and takes it as he walks back to camp." is true.
In applying the logic that some of what is said by the defense/GL is factual and some isn't, the stated 'story' that RH even touched the gun, saw it or took it is not at all proven fact or necessarily true.

 

[Kurve]

I momentarily forgot about the longarm silencer they found at Lynn's house. A shotgun is a longarm.

If he was hunting at night, he would use one. Silencers are also highly illegal.

Why didn't he get rid of it after the police made first contact? Why does he even need a longarm silencer? Because he loves his silencer I'd think.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

IMO I don't accept that "Russell sees gun and takes it as he walks back to camp." is true.
In applying the logic that some of what is said by the defense/GL is factual and some isn't, the stated 'story' that RH even touched the gun, saw it or took it is not at all proven fact or necessarily true.

Ok, that's a good point Pamcake, though I was surmising what may have tipped GL 'over the edge' to commit murder. And Russell taking the gun could be the catalyst to do that.

 

[Badd0g]

Returning to post #6683 (Thanks BadDog btw that was far clearer info than previously reported by other journos)

"The temperature to cremate a body is between 800 and 1000 degrees Celsius. The intense heat within the industrial furnace, known as the cremation chamber, ensures disintegration of the body as it reduces the body to its basic chemical compounds of gases, ashes and mineral fragments." ref; Google

(My Google history is going to be damning should I turn to nefarious deeds in the future..."all for wanting to know stuff for BF chatter your honour" sic.)

Yes, I thought it was a very well written piece that made things just that little bit clearer.
Re cremation: given there were that many bones/fragments remaining, it couldn't have been that hot, but I can only guess it was petrol fuelled

The wave and kiss seemed to get bigger as the week went on- thought she’d almost fall over the balcony today.

I was actually going to say earlier it struck me as almost theatrical - but then considered it may have just been my perception. I'm glad I wasn't the only one!

 

[356deamon]

??? Wasn't the house sold etc. She'd want a quick resolution if after money.
Maybe she likes a bad boy?
Maybe still loves him.and believes him?
Who knows?

The property history shows a transfer of ownership on the 20th October 2021.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

I momentarily forgot about the longarm silencer they found at Lynn's house. A shotgun is a longarm.

If he was hunting at night, he would use one. Silencers are also highly illegal.

Why didn't he get rid of it after the police made first contact? Why does he even need a longarm silencer? Because he loves his silencer I'd think.

GLs story seems to account for the noise of a firearm discharging at least a couple of times. Weirdly, from the witnesses so far no mention of them...

 

[Kurve]

The wave and kiss seemed to get bigger as the week went on- thought she’d almost fall over the balcony today.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Yeah Kurve ..... reminds me of this somehow ? Listen to the words ....

 

[Pamcake1]

Ok, that's a good point Pamcake, though I was surmising what may have tipped GL 'over the edge' to commit murder. And Russell taking the gun could be the catalyst to do that.

Possibly what we know of the 'edge' of GL so far?
1/He dislikes noise and things he can't control. (multiple instances of GL's lack of controlling his temper prior in known history...go right back in the thread for this info if you don't know it already)
2/He doesn't like or want a drone recording and identifying what he is doing.

Taking the gun as cause for deed:
a/did it actually happen and b/GL was already over the edge before gun involement.

Just saying IMO the story of the gun is at anyrate whether true or not, after things had heated up and it would still not be 'reasonable' to murder someone over in a fit of pique, if it happened as said.

 

[Dirh Semaj]

Possibly what we know of the 'edge' of GL so far?
1/He dislikes noise and things he can't control. (multiple instances of GL's lack of controlling his temper prior in known history...go right back in the thread for this info if you don't know it already)
2/He doesn't like or want a drone recording and identifying what he is doing.

Taking the gun as cause for deed:
a/did it actually happen and b/GL was already over the edge before gun involement.

Just saying IMO the story of the gun is at anyrate whether true or not, after things had heated up and it would still not be 'reasonable' to murder someone over in a fit of pique, if it happened as said.

Yes, I see those points Pamcake. But will the Jury be told all this and would they have that sense to put those pieces together?

You're right, GL may have only needed the fact that Russell had footage of him and had already threatened to go to the Police as impotence to act ....

I will be interested to see if there is evidence put forward about GLs secret stash of guns, knives and as Kurve mentioned... silencer....

 

[Pamcake1]

He just made a series of terrible choices, not of his making and not of his choosing….

One can only hope that this statement about 'choices' that was made by the defense, is the thing that sticks in the jurors minds, as being an utterly pathetic application of 'self determination' which has no absolutionary value whatsoever.
It certainly sticks in my mind as such.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Yes, I see those points Pamcake. But will the Jury be told all this and would they have that sense to put those pieces together?

You're right, GL may have only needed the fact that Russell had footage of him and had already threatened to go to the Police as impotence to act ....

I will be interested to see if there is evidence put forward about GLs secret stash of guns, knives and as Kurve mentioned... silencer....

Here is what GL's barrister will say friend if he was trying that on ......

 

[Angry_Crow]

"She doth protest too much" ???

Correct weight

 

[EagleEyes1]

I've just come across this article from earlier this week written by one of the journos from the podcast. It contains quite a few details that I don't recall having read/been reported before.

Dann said that when Lynn, 57, first met Hill and Clay at a campsite in the Wonnangatta Valley in the state’s alpine region, they exchanged pleasantries. But the next day, on March 20, 2020, Lynn went hunting, and when he returned to Bucks Camp, he became aware of a drone flying above him.​

This seems to clear up that RH/CC were in the valley on the Thursday. There are definitely other reports that say they stayed the Thursday night up on the high plains.

“Mr Lynn started to follow Mr Hill ... could see him trying to load the magazine....“Mr Hill said he was going to take the gun to the police as well.” Dann said Lynn then went towards Hill to get his gun back, when Hill fired the gun into the air, leaving Lynn “scared shitless”.​

"Trying to load" is an interesting point here...seems to me that someone not familiar with guns who was just trying to load a gun would struggle to successfully get 3 rounds loaded before GL could cross the distance to retrieve the gun. Not to mention if you were going to take the gun to the police, would you be loading it first and shooting it into the air?

But as the struggle allegedly continued, Dann said, a shot went through the mirror of Hill’s car and then allegedly struck Clay in the head. (and later in the piece)...On February 11, 2022, the canopy of Hill’s vehicle was examined. Porceddu said the examining expert found blood splatter stains and fatty deposits under an area of the canopy. The prosecution alleges DNA analysis supports the proposition that the sample belonged to Clay.​

Under the canopy... which would indicate she was crouched down pretty low... much lower than the mirror. Edit: Unless they are referring to under the lift up door.

“It’s the defence case Mr Hill let go of the gun, Mr Hill went over to see where Mrs Clay was.” Dann said Lynn got his gun back and returned to the car before Hill came towards him with a knife, “screaming at him, ‘She’s dead.’ “Then a struggle occurred over the knife. “The two men fall to the ground and the knife goes through the chest of Mr Hill.”​

Lynn got his gun back after RH had already let go of it to go to CC?? In this scenario RH is clearly aware that CC has been hit, and GL just casually goes back to his car? If one were to take his story on face value, strike one for failing to assist.

On April 1, the prosecution said, Lynn put the trailer and other items up for sale on Gumtree, and the ad was removed two days later. The trailer has never been found.​

Not even 2 weeks later - some April Fools joke.

The jury was told that in March 2022, police re-examined the Bucks Camp site and discovered metal and bone fragments, including an unburnt skull fragment allegedly belonging to Clay. It’s the prosecution case that the metal projectile fragment likely came from a 12-gauge shotgun and contained Clay’s DNA. Further fragments of human skull bones, believed to have belonged to Clay, were also later collected from the scene.​

Multiple fragments of skull found but no mention of exactly where/how far from camp

They found burnt remains while focusing on an area at the base of a fallen tree, the prosecutor said. The remains had included a burnt human tibia, or leg bone, and a toe bone. The jury was told further remains found nearby included more than 2100 pieces of burnt and highly fragmented bones.​

2100 pieces! I don't even know where to start...

Lynn comes back from Hunting and notices a drone flying around him so he goes and talks to Hill who tells him where to go?
-Unlikely as Hill would have respected his privacy. Whatever footage the drone captured, it certainly meant Lynn would be in serious trouble if it were taken to the authorities. Lynn got rid of the drone for this reason otherwise he would have kept it for his own defence.

Lynn then goes back and blasts the music to annoy Hill so Hill comes over and walks off with Lynn’s gun and ammunition.
-Unlikely as you would not have your weapon and ammunition available for anyone to walk by and pick it up. Where was Lynn when this happened? Didn’t he just come back from hunting all day? Why wasn’t he at his own campsite?

Lynn goes to retrieve his gun and sees Hill loading the weapon who then fired a round into the sky.
-Unlikely as Hill hated guns and hunting. Why would he take the gun when he could easily take footage and report Lynn from his car registration?

They had a struggle and Clay got shot through the passenger mirror.
- Unlikely. If the passenger mirror was shot then where are the glass metal and plastic fragments? They would be all over the ground. How come the mirror was removed? Was it because Lynn accidentally touched the mirror while searching their car for their wallets?
Clay’s skull fragments and blood were found under the canopy. Given she was shot in the side of the head she was most likely killed point blank whilst crouching down or on her knees.

Hill lets go of the gun and checks on Clay realising she’s dead.
- Unlikely. If Clay was shot that close I’m sure Hill would have realised she was dead instantly. There’s no way he would have let go of the gun.

Lynn walks off back to his campsite.
- Unlikely. Clay has just had her head blown off and Lynn walks off like he’s taking a stroll in the park?

Hill goes and gets a knife and comes back to Lynn and has a second fight with someone who has a loaded shotgun, falls and kill’s himself.
- Absolutely unlikely. Why wouldn’t Hill radio for backup? Who on earth would bring a knife to a gun fight? He would have been shot dead.
If there was a knife fight how come Lynn has no cuts on his hands or body? Most knife attack victims have cuts on their hands in self defence. Lynn had none.
Where was the blood on the ground from Hill’s stab wound?

Lynn burns Hill and Clay’s camp site.
- Why did Lynn burn Hill’s campsite? Was it to burn the evidence of the actual place where Hill was shot or stabbed to get rid of any blood/bone? The fire as seen by images has also gone towards the canopy which leads me to believe that Lynn has doused and burnt the true areas of where the murders took place.

Lynn takes the bodies and burns them far away from the camp site.
- Lynn destroys evidence of pathology and potential autopsy.

Lynn disposes of Russel’s knife and drone.
- Lynn destroys evidence. We still do not know if Hill was shot or stabbed. It could be either. As for the drone it would have had key evidence of what Lynn was upto that day leading to the incident. It is nowhere to be found.

Lynn sells his trailer and repaints his car.
-Lynn destroys evidence again. Covering his tracks he goes back to check on the bodies to make sure they are well disposed of.

Lynn’s story does not hold water.

IMO

 

[Irma]

Found reference to a shooting accident involving someone with the same surname, it has been discussed on another forum has confirmed the man referenced in the article was Russel’s cousin. Very sad

Oh geez, yeah that is really sad. For everyone. It certainly makes it easier to understand why Russell wasn’t a fan of guns/hunters.

 

[GrayRanga]

A theory only:

Take a Commercial Pilot, who got his wings via the RAAF, who has a fair degree of personal conceit about his abilities as a pilot who is currently stood down due to Covid

Take a hunter and a Bushy who probably has a fair level of conceit about his ability as a successful hunter and has a financial investment in his hunting armoury and lifestyle who has been informed that there is actual drone footage of breaches of Game Hunting rules and regulations or even breaches of the Fire Arms Act or the Wildlife Act and has has been threatened with the footage being provided to a regulatory body

Say this regulatory body has the ability to convict him of any breaches of the legislation and impose a fine (not neccesariy inprisonment) and cancel his Fireams Licence(s)

His employment contract probably has clauses that they have to be notified of any conviction, and this conviction may affect his employment with that employer and any other Australian employer

Go overseas to another Airline, what do you put on the working Visa application if it asks "Have you had any convictions" or "Have you had any convictions for violence against the person or firearm offences"?

He's had a non argument with a probably belligerent old fart who wouldn't back down and he's gone back to his camp in high dudgeon stewing about his choices and he turns up the radio to annoy them as sees the preparations to the evening meal

Possible the drone is having its last flight to catch the images of the sunset across the valley and the drone and the people are about 50 m away within range of his 5 shot gun loaded with slugs and his shooting abilities

Bang, the drone has gone, bang, the bloke is shot andd he sees blood spattter on the walls of the tent, bang. the woman drops down, the mirror explodes, he moves to retarget for a cleaner shot and bang.

Because he's not cruel he goes closer to infict the coup de gras on the wounded target(s)

Nice theory only based on male ego, fear of consequences of actions which in a split second decision which he believed to resolve all his problems. Murders often are the result of split second decisions when the assailant's ego or self belief are threatened.

Of course, the evidence provided later in the case may prove this spiel to be nothing more than a bunch of electrons being excited for no particular reason