Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Pamcake1]

Interesting that the Guardian had one para near the end of the article:

"The prosecutor, Daniel Porceddu, has said police did not know the exact circumstances or motive behind the alleged double murder at Bucks Camp, a remote site in the Wonnangatta Valley"

I might be reading too much into the very specific quote from the prosecutor, but it may be that the prosecution aren't going to buy into Lynn's narrative in his ROI at all.

They're not providing an alternative narrative at all by suggesting a motive or passage of events that has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

I'd suggest there is very specific evidence that will be lead later in the trial that will create it's own story (such a pathologist painstakingly putting as many of 2000 bone fragments together)

I confirm it very much looks like that is the strategy. As I have been saying all along when we get to the forensics we will know a whole lot more of how the Prosecution will dismantle the Defence's 'story'.

 

[MiguelM]

I confirm it very much looks like that is the strategy. As I have been saying all along when we get to the forensics we will know a whole lot more of how the Prosecution will dismantle the Defence's 'story'.

Yeah, you would think there is a whole lot more to play out.

Does the prosecution have to detail what evidence forensics may have prior to trial?

 

[Pamcake1]

Whatever they found at the motel might not pass as evidence in the circumstances but if Lynn did check in and given he would have paid in cash, the motel might have taken his registration.

If the Hotel housekeeping saw obvious blood on the bath mat it would have and should have been separated from the normal wash.
As you would know, blood only washes out in cold water to not leave staining and normally Hotel linen is put through a hot wash for sanitising purposes.
Possibly It was also kept in a separate bag for hygenic reasons to be washed totally separate from all other items.
Hard to know what exact protocol the Hotel would be following, there is 'best practise' and then there's 'so so practise'.

Possibly it has been preserved in a way as noted that could be used as evidence possibly not.
If I remember the original mention of this piece of evidence correctly, it was located on the underside of the bath mat.

I'm imagining there was in fact a lot of blood on his clothes and himself, (soaked through) and in the clean up he would have also cleaned up the bathroom to get rid of the evidence possibly by only wiping or dousing the top of the bath mat, therefore missing that it had soaked through to the underside.

It was obviously notable for Housekeeping to see it in the first place.

 

[Pamcake1]

Yeah, you would think there is a whole lot more to play out.

Does the prosecution have to detail what evidence forensics may have prior to trial?

I would imagine so as all evidence is given to the defence.

 

[Run n Spread]

GL himself admits leaving just before midnight doesn't he? It fits his story, left in a panic etc tried to exit via Abbeyard, got stuck at gate. Instead of unhitching he created a huge racket trying to turn around with the trailer on.

Did the witness check his phone? Verify the time? Otherwise he'd be guessing. Either side could knock a hole in the story.
If it was after midnight it matches GLs story.

 

[Lady O]

Depends on the "heart condition". He could have had hypertension, which wouldn't suggest anti-coagulants. He could have had CHF, which also wouldn't suggest anti-coagulants.

Not necessarily anticoagulants (Warfarin etc), but blood thinners like asprin or clopidogrel will make even minor injuries and scratches bleed profusely.

 

[Run n Spread]

Interesting that the Guardian had one para near the end of the article:

"The prosecutor, Daniel Porceddu, has said police did not know the exact circumstances or motive behind the alleged double murder at Bucks Camp, a remote site in the Wonnangatta Valley"

I might be reading too much into the very specific quote from the prosecutor, but it may be that the prosecution aren't going to buy into Lynn's narrative in his ROI at all.

They're not providing an alternative narrative at all by suggesting a motive or passage of events that has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

I'd suggest there is very specific evidence that will be lead later in the trial that will create it's own story (such a pathologist painstakingly putting as many of 2000 bone fragments together)

Yeah won't be any surprises. All evidence and witness lists have to be disclosed. While we have to wait both sides know each other's strategies and the witness stories.
Where the big bucks are made and barristers earn their money is forensic questioning. Like a skilled interrogater they are very skilled at leading a conversation a certain way to extract information/ sow a doubt they want others to hear.

 

[Terrafirma]

Yeah, you would think there is a whole lot more to play out.

Does the prosecution have to detail what evidence forensics may have prior to trial?

Yes that's what delayed the case was the evidence brief. Defense get the evidence brief before the trial so then Lynn can structure his story to work around the evidence. That's a huge advantage I would have thought. Let's hope the prosecution have some aces up their sleeve. The system favors the accused when there are 2 dead people who can't testify or tell the truth. A tragic accident, self defense, then some very bad choices afterwards. I wonder if they can use his initial interview against him because I also wonder if he's changed his story since then now his team have had a chance to read the evidence brief.

 

[Pamcake1]

IMO.
Further thoughts on the Hotel cleanup: what does it prove?
That GL had no intention of doing anything other than hide all evidence, as much as possible.
That a calculated and calculating mind was at work showing culpability.
That at no stage was any thought given to reporting two 'accidental' fatalities.
That no thought for their families and any compassion was given.
Ruthless, calculated, cold-blooded and only self concerned.

 

[Lady O]

Some more photos were made public today that answer a few things about the campsite - in particular how far apart they were. I'm sure we'll get a mudmap at some stage but in the meantime I had a look at todays photos and some older ones. The first one is one that was marked by someone who identified GLs camp by the black circle. The second and third are side on views of RH car and the fourth is another, slightly different angled aerial view of the campsite. Identifying the same trees in each shot (purple, green, yellow and blue dots), I have marked approximately where it appears the two campsites were: Red for GL and White for RH/CC. Looking from the perspective of pic 3, they don't actually appear to be that close. Close enough to see each other but not exactly in each others' laps. It certainly wouldn't move my needle if someone camped that close to me...

So this photo of the vehicle shows it with the esky still in place and the passenger side canopy open. All the other photos we have seen show the canopy closed and looking like it has suffered some signs of smoke damage. From some of the previous photos, it looks like the awning had been tied to the canopy, so it looks like this is where they would have been sitting and eating.



Just on the wires for the radio, how would he have got them up so high in the tree?

 

[Zidane98]

The testimony from the 2 Serbian campers from NSW is interesting. One allegedly witnessed RH/CC pull up at the drop toilets in the "Gatta while the other reckons RH sped past him right into the campsite and parked near a blue Patrol.

Both agreed this was on the 19th which matches with GL saying he had a "pleasant" interaction with RH on the 19th.

 

[MiguelM]

So this photo of the vehicle shows it with the esky still in place and the passenger side canopy open. All the other photos we have seen show the canopy closed and looking like it has suffered some signs of smoke damage. From some of the previous photos, it looks like the awning had been tied to the canopy, so it looks like this is where they would have been sitting and eating.

View attachment 1995596

Just on the wires for the radio, how would he have got them up so high in the tree?

Maybe tie a string to wires with a weight and throw over the branch?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Instead of tip toeing around for pages about the drone, why don't you just get to the point about your infatuation with the drone.

My infatuation with the drone is that you all seem to believe that part of GL's evidence but think it's a lie that one person was accidentally killed with a shotgun and the other fell on his own knife and died that way.
It might have been the radio wires that set off an argument.
It might have been correct as the weedsprayers testified that RH had just had a row with CC and GL tried to calm them down when they were at the campsite.
Believing one part of an alleged murderer's story which fits his record of events is wrong imo.
Why don't you get to the point why you think the deaths were no accident.

 

[Zidane98]

Maybe tie a string to wires with a weight and throw over the branch?

This seems the only logical way, sort of like casting a fishing line. I am pretty sure RH wasn't climbing up a gum tree to get the HF antenna in place....

 

[GrayRanga]

Yes that's what delayed the case was the evidence brief. Defense get the evidence brief before the trial so then Lynn can structure his story to work around the evidence. That's a huge advantage I would have thought. Let's hope the prosecution have some aces up their sleeve. The system favors the accused when there are 2 dead people who can't testify or tell the truth. A tragic accident, self defense, then some very bad choices afterwards. I wonder if they can use his initial interview against him because I also wonder if he's changed his story since then now his team have had a chance to read the evidence brief.

If the defence are going to use the 20 hours Record of Interview without any subsequent alterations under caution, its going to be very hard to change the story.

As you mentioned in an earlier post, NSW has case law that allows for post event actions to be considered as part of the evidence.

In a later post, Badd0g suggested that similar case law exists in Victoria with a 28 day notice to be provided to the defence.

Back track through the Court Mentions in regards to this matter, there is a matter heard with no information, which could be the lodging of the notice about 6 weeks ago

The next Court mention could be the judicial determination of the notice, which may included legal argument?

We wont know whether this supposition may be correct as it is Voir Dire until the trial is completed

 

[Kurve]

The prosecution intends to introduce a deer hunting map in a plastic bag the cops found, I wonder if there are any pointers on it to indicate where he left the bodies. Not like a big X or anything but maybe coded coordinates.

Or possibly they have some other relevance that points to his guilt, I just can't think of anything atm.

 

[GrayRanga]

My infatuation with the drone is that you all seem to believe that part of GL's evidence but think it's a lie that one person was accidentally killed with a shotgun and the other fell on his own knife and died that way.
It might have been the radio wires that set off an argument.
It might have been correct as the weedsprayers testified that RH had just had a row with CC and GL tried to calm them down when they were at the campsite.
Believing one part of an alleged murderer's story which fits his record of events is wrong imo.
Why don't you get to the point why you think the deaths were no accident.

Whether a drone was flying at any time after the witness testimony of seeing one it immaterial. Hill may or not be flying it at that time or later in the evening

If the statement of the Prosecutor has been reported by The Guardian correctly; "has said police did not know the exact circumstances or motive".

We have only one story of what happened that night, Lynn's.

I'd suggest that most following this thread would believe elements of it to plausible to an extent, containing some truth, but crafted to defend and support his narrative.

This is not a Hollywood depiction of a Court case; this is real life.

The prosecution's story arc doesn't have to make sense for those expecting a 203 minute run time plus credits.

If the prosecution have prepared their case effectively, each element will come together so that the Jury believe that both people were dies as a result of Lynn's actions to either kill or inflict grievous bodily harm.

Helps of your accustomed to Nordic Noir Crime series where an entire episode adds only one clue to the totality

 

[EagleEyes1]

The prosecution intends to introduce a deer hunting map in a plastic bag the cops found, I wonder if there are any pointers on it to indicate where he left the bodies. Not like a big X or anything but maybe coded coordinates.

Or possibly they have some other relevance that points to his guilt, I just can't think of anything atm.

I doubt it would indicate where the bodies were taken. I would say it shows the locations of where Lynn has been hunting. Any evidence of animal cruelty such as decapitated deers etc would show how cold blooded Lynn really is. If Lynn is ruthless with his hunting style then it portrays he would be ruthless enough to execute Hill and Clay in a similar fashion.

IMO

 

[faible]

Whether a drone was flying at any time after the witness testimony of seeing one it immaterial. Hill may or not be flying it at that time or later in the evening

If the statement of the Prosecutor has been reported by The Guardian correctly; "has said police did not know the exact circumstances or motive".

We have only one story of what happened that night, Lynn's.

I'd suggest that most following this thread would believe elements of it to plausible to an extent, containing some truth, but crafted to defend and support his narrative.

This is not a Hollywood depiction of a Court case; this is real life.

The prosecution's story arc doesn't have to make sense for those expecting a 203 minute run time plus credits.

If the prosecution have prepared their case effectively, each element will come together so that the Jury believe that both people were dies as a result of Lynn's actions to either kill or inflict grievous bodily harm.

Helps of your accustomed to Nordic Noir Crime series where an entire episode adds only one clue to the totality

I assume part of the defence will be making Hill out to be a bit of a grumpy old man who'd inconsiderately fly his drone around and initiate a confrontation.

 

[Kurve]

I doubt it would indicate where the bodies were taken. I would say it shows the locations of where Lynn has been hunting. Any evidence of animal cruelty such as decapitated deers etc would show how cold blooded Lynn really is. If Lynn is ruthless with his hunting style then it portrays he would be ruthless enough to execute Hill and Clay in a similar fashion.

IMO

Lynn went back to burn at the site twice after dumping them at night, he'd need to remember exactly where he left them.

I come from the bush, the landscape can change if one tree comes down for whatever reason and it can be disorienting. I've also washed my clothes on, in the shower when I'm away remote, more than once.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

NEWSFLASH - One juror has been discharged due to ill health.

14 of original 15 remain. 12 needed for a verdict.

Source - ABC 774 just now.

 

[faible]

Lynn went back to burn at the site twice after dumping them at night, he'd need to remember exactly where he left them.

I come from the bush, the landscape can change if one tree comes down for whatever reason and it can be disorienting. I've also washed my clothes on, in the shower when I'm away remote, more than once.

Isn't it also quite common for murderers to dump bodies somewhere they're familiar with?

Doesn't Lynn accept that he dumped the bodies and such, so there's not really a dispute there.

 

[Kurve]

Isn't it also quite common for murderers to dump bodies somewhere they're familiar with?

Doesn't Lynn accept that he dumped the bodies and such, so there's not really a dispute there.

Lynn had been in that area before but I imagine he's also been just about everywhere through the Alpine region.

If there's no dispute, why do they need the map?

 

[faible]

Lynn had been in that area before but I imagine he's also been just about everywhere through the Alpine region.

If there's no dispute, why do they need the map?

That's the question, if he's seemingly admitting to disposing of the bodies and all that entails, do we need the map? Does it perhaps show something relevant to trying to prove murder?

 

[Kurve]

That's the question, if he's seemingly admitting to disposing of the bodies and all that entails, do we need the map? Does it perhaps show something relevant to trying to prove murder?

If Lynn really did tell them where the bodies were, or they found a, or the map, told Lynn they've got it and he thinks they're going to work it out sooner or later, so he gets the jump and he can have his lawyer use it in his defence.

"My client told the cops where the bodies were"

Or there's something on it that proves he was outside the designated deer hunting areas, hunting illegally?