Current Trial Wonnangatta - Murders of Russell Hill & Carol Clay *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty

[Kurve]

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Israel Keyes

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[faible]

Lynn had an argument at Hill’s camp over the drone and then went where exactly?
How did Hill come over to Lynn’s camp and take a gun with ammunition? Why did Hill allegedly take 3 rounds only? Why not take the box?
How did Hill get back to his own camp without Lynn noticing his gun was missing? When Lynn did notice the gun was missing where did he come from?
When Clay was shot where was Clay standing? How did she get shot in the side of the head if she was facing them trying to stop the fight?
If the round that hit Clay ricochet off the mirror then where are the mirror fragments on the ground? Why was Clays dna under the canopy?
If Hill died at Lynn’s camp then where is the forensic evidence of this on the ground? How come Lynn didn’t even sustain a scratch from the alleged knife fight?

There’s nobody on this planet that would believe Lynn’s crazy story. Amazing how far from the truth he tells the story.

IMO

It'll be interesting how and where the prosecution attacks his story, if they can prove some of the key points couldn't have occurred the way Lynn says, then his whole defense falls apart.

 

[Zidane98]

This has killed his “I panicked” defence imo, apart from his rubbish accidental death by falling on a knife or whatever?
He is showing no remorse and is cold and heartless, juries still work on emotion at the end of the day

Not for me. Getting stuck at the Abbeyard gate,
creating a racket than driving all the way up to Dargo randomly for me is exactly the behaviour of some acting irrationally. Then burying RH/CC followed by going home the long way via Hotham (and getting snapped on camera) wasn't exactly a well thought out plan either.

True about juries being sold on emotion. For me they'll need to be convinced of a plausible explanation for RH's death to truly believe CC was then murdered by GL for being a witness.

 

[GrayRanga]

A few things possibly? One is the Police had him with evidence and he knew that. So they forced his hand. Secondly if he claimed self defense and accidental deaths then it stands to reason to give up the bodies otherwise it looks more like murder. They tell him what are Melanie and your children going to think if you don't disclose the location of their remains. He can't deny he wasn't there and they have Hill's phone pinging with his car going through Hotham, he's cooked at this stage and he knows it. To me he has to play ball and conversely the Police have to charge him with murder with him believing he can defend the case as we see it today. There could be other factors perhaps the guilt of what happened and how he acted afterwards had become a unbearable load, if it didn't then he would be as cold blooded as some think IMO

I don't think that there was a moment of feelings of remorse for the couple nor one of guilt what weighed upon his soul over the period between the incident in the valley and his arrest.

He spent that period making sure he could not be caught and getting his story, if arrested, was rote perfect; rehearsing answers to any possible questions.

He was going to display an Oscar winning performance if arrested.

The Police laid out the evidence they had; probably fairly significant evidence (including GPS mapping?), that had him "bang to rights"

Some time during the ROI the Police mentioned the "no body, no parole" legislation (which was fairly new at that point) and pointed out that his cooperation may influence any decision the Board may make in the future?

He did a profit/loss calculation decision and believing that the bodies had been so badly destroyed, that there would be little forensic evidence left to undermine his story, led the police to the exact spot rather than the approximate vicinity

After all, he had checked a few times to check on their rate of decay, burnt them, and given the amount of bone fragments found, broke their bodies up further

 

[EagleEyes1]

It'll be interesting how and where the prosecution attacks his story, if they can prove some of the key points couldn't have occurred the way Lynn says, then his whole defense falls apart.

A re-enactment of the whole incident combined with forensic evidence (both present and missing) will prove how crazy Lynn’s story is.

 

[MiguelM]

Not for me. Getting stuck at the Abbeyard gate,
creating a racket than driving all the way up to Dargo randomly for me is exactly the behaviour of some acting irrationally. Then burying RH/CC followed by going home the long way via Hotham (and getting snapped on camera) wasn't exactly a well thought out plan either.

True about juries being sold on emotion. For me they'll need to be convinced of a plausible explanation for RH's death to truly believe CC was then murdered by GL for being a witness.

Thing for me is if he was so panicked his demeanor to family/friends/workmates would a dead givaway you would think?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Thing for me is if he was so panicked his demeanor to family/friends/workmates would a dead givaway you would think?

In general, unless it's immediately following a traumatic event, people are pretty good at concealing their real feelings, imo. He'd be thinking he'd covered his tracks well and was in the clear, clever him.

 

[Zidane98]

Thing for me is if he was so panicked his demeanor to family/friends/workmates would a dead givaway you would think?

This doesn't change whether he was panicked or not on the night of the tragedy.

For me his actions are of someone not acting straight or thinking rationally on the night and next day of the alleged murders.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

... juries still work on emotion at the end of the day

I think that's the problem - they have to work on this beyond reasonable doubt instruction.
Emotions and what you personally think of the accused have to be put aside by jurors and judge the matter completely on what evidence is put before them.
I would have made my mind up and have before the defence even begin their argument so I probably wouldn't be much good as an unbiased juror.
Just as well juries don't give written explanations how they reached their verdict because many normal people would think along similar lines to mine and hence why I think a judge should be the only person to hand down a verdict.

 

[Badd0g]

Might have recently returned and put them in the car so as to not be easily accessible or visible while he did other things before fully securing it.

I imagine it would be hard to prove it sufficiently, but might be a good way to poke holes in his story.

'Why didn't you secure it properly?'
'Oh um, I mean well I did!'
'So how did RH so easily get it?'
'Uh I mean I didn't!'
'Your story seems inconsistent sir.'

Not according to his story...he says it was after he had returned, had words and gone back to his camp and eaten dinner (oh and turned his music up to piss RH off)

 

[Zidane98]

Any more testimony from those who had interactions with GL apart from the guy who recommended Bucks camp to him?

We've heard plenty of testinony about Russel's life and interactions that don't paint him in a great light.

Prosecution getting testimony from the many people who probably have had an interaction with GL in the high country showing him to be argumentative and easily able to lose his temper would certainly bolster their case.

 

[faible]

Thing for me is if he was so panicked his demeanor to family/friends/workmates would a dead givaway you would think?

There was a gap in time between the incident and him seeing family again, plus with Covid and losing his job I'd think any weird behaviour could easily have been chalked up against that.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Any more testimony from those who had interactions with GL apart from the guy who recommended Bucks camp to him?

We've heard plenty of testinony about Russel's life and interactions that don't paint him in a great light.

Prosecution getting testimony from the many people who probably have had an interaction with GL in the high country showing him to be argumentative and easily able to lose his temper would certainly bolster their case.

Prosecution seem to be working for GL at this stage painting RH as a very grumpy man who just had a fight with his passenger in his car, lied to his wife who he was going with, GL was the pleasant chap and said hello to grumpy RH, RH hated weapons, hated someone in his spot, hated deer hunters next to his camp and hated people who shoot down his drone.
That's the picture painted in my head and that's why Lady O had to add point nine because GL may have been hired to knock RH off because he deserved it.
I always get so confused about whose side a lawyer is on when getting to his/her feet to say something.
Does anyone have a reason for painting RH in this way by the prosecution?

 

[faible]

Does anyone have a reason for painting RH in this way by the prosecution?

Motive?

RH was a prick so GL decided to do something to shut him up?

 

[Zidane98]

Motive?

RH was a prick so GL decided to do something to shut him up?

That's a tough sell without any evidence painting GL as being capable of such a reaction. I'd expect some witness testimony from someone who possibly had an interaction with GL, maybe got into an argument which got physical and he lost his temper. That would sell the idea that GL could possibly lose the plot and murder RH/CC with what tipped him over the edge being covid, losing his job, trying to get away from it all at the "Gatta etc, RH being an annoying old git. That's a plausible theory for the prosecution to follow.


But RH being a prick so GL decides to blow him away? I wouldn't buy that at all without any evidence to support that theory. And it would have to be pretty compelling.

 

[MiguelM]

I think that's the problem - they have to work on this beyond reasonable doubt instruction.
Emotions and what you personally think of the accused have to be put aside by jurors and judge the matter completely on what evidence is put before them.
I would have made my mind up and have before the defence even begin their argument so I probably wouldn't be much good as an unbiased juror.
Just as well juries don't give written explanations how they reached their verdict because many normal people would think along similar lines to mine and hence why I think a judge should be the only person to hand down a verdict.

I have been on a few juries and people have different levels of reasonable. Also, many people talk about the what ifs.

Reality is most will have already formed a verdict no matter what the legal elite say.

 

[Pamcake1]

In the Daily Mail article below there are what looks like marked up crime photos. Go to the one showing the front cabin of Hills vehicle and you will see it says view gallery +8 in a blue box to the bottom right and there is a photo of the burnt tent marked up with items and also a front view of the passanger side damage marked up:

Police found traces of Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill

Police found a label for the erection pill Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill in the bathroom bin of his secret lover Carol Clay, a court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[MiguelM]

In the Daily Mail article below there are what looks like marked up crime photos. Go to the one showing the front cabin of Hills vehicle and you will see it says view gallery +8 in a blue box to the bottom right and there is a photo of the burnt tent marked up with items and also a front view of the passanger side damage marked up:

Police found traces of Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill

Police found a label for the erection pill Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill in the bathroom bin of his secret lover Carol Clay, a court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What a crappy tabloid clickbait headline!!

Reminds me of those old People magazines.

Not sure what finding viagra has anything to do with the case tbh.

 

[Badd0g]

In the Daily Mail article below there are what looks like marked up crime photos. Go to the one showing the front cabin of Hills vehicle and you will see it says view gallery +8 in a blue box to the bottom right and there is a photo of the burnt tent marked up with items and also a front view of the passanger side damage marked up:

Police found traces of Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill

Police found a label for the erection pill Viagra belonging to elderly camper Russell Hill in the bathroom bin of his secret lover Carol Clay, a court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Trust DM to weed out all the sordid details. Viagra, indeed!
Good shots of the car though...interesting that the indicator and the bonnet are circled as potentially damaged as well as the mirror.

 

[Pamcake1]

What a crappy tabloid clickbait headline!!

Reminds me of those old People magazines.

Not sure what finding viagra has anything to do with the case tbh.

Expect nothing less from the Daily Fail.
But I keep my eye on them because sometimes in their online site, they have things like these photo's that the others don't.
Yes, they are the Post, Pix and the Truth combined.

 

[jason_recliner]

What a crappy tabloid clickbait headline!!

Reminds me of those old People magazines.

Not sure what finding viagra has anything to do with the case tbh.

Might have compromised his ability to run at Lynn?

 

[Pamcake1]

Trust DM to weed out all the sordid details. Viagra, indeed!
Good shots of the car though...interesting that the indicator and the bonnet are circled as potentially damaged as well as the mirror.

Yes, and interesting to get a good look at where exactly the items are in the fire too.
Also the front cabin, things obviously werent thrown around in a panic looking for things.
It is left looking very neat to me. Skilled riffling not panicked at all.
The comments in the article about Clay's friend give a bit more backgrounding too.

 

[Badd0g]

Expect nothing less from the Daily Fail.
But I keep my eye on them because sometimes in their online site, they have things like these photo's that the others don't.
Yes, they are the Post, Pix and the Truth combined.

Ditto, the local media outlets don't seem to publish a lot of that which is entered into evidence. Not sure what the story is there.

 

[Badd0g]

Yes, and interesting to get a good look at where exactly the items are in the fire too.
Also the front cabin, things obviously werent thrown around in a panic looking for things.
It is left looking very neat to me. Skilled riffling not panicked at all.
The comments in the article about Clay's friend give a bit more backgrounding too.

Similarly, CCs stuff. Still neat and tidy, and that looks like more than just a handbag...why would she have had that much stuff still in the car if they had arrived the night before?...you'd think most of it would be in the tent.
Skilled riffling with gloves on? or are we going to hear evidence of GLs fingerprints on the ID cards/wallet?
The background I am less intrested in... I don't think there is anything that could come up that would explain or justify why they died. Unless Lady O wants to add GL wanted some of RHs Viagra and he wouldn't give it up as a motive

 

[Zidane98]

Might have compromised his ability to run at Lynn?

Is that a shotgun in your pocket or are you happy to see me.

 

[GrayRanga]

Prosecution seem to be working for GL at this stage painting RH as a very grumpy man who just had a fight with his passenger in his car, lied to his wife who he was going with, GL was the pleasant chap and said hello to grumpy RH, RH hated weapons, hated someone in his spot, hated deer hunters next to his camp and hated people who shoot down his drone.
That's the picture painted in my head and that's why Lady O had to add point nine because GL may have been hired to knock RH off because he deserved it.
I always get so confused about whose side a lawyer is on when getting to his/her feet to say something.
Does anyone have a reason for painting RH in this way by the prosecution?

Nobody "deserves" to die.

Hill might not be a shining example of a spouse, might have been economical with the truth. he might not have "suffered fools gladly" and had reached the age that he had done the hard yards in life and basically gave up giving a flying farnackle about social niceties'.

A prickly pain in the butt, who you had to walk carefully around unless you wanted a good stand up argument, which he would probably enjoy.

Millions of men and women like that around the place. Meet them daily

I could have enjoyed his company around a campfire

Nobody with his characteristics "deserves" to die.

Was Clay just collateral damage? It appears she also was in a relationship with Hill whilst still married.

Was Lynn the avenging angel striking people engaged in adultery dead?

There has not been one shred of evidence tabled that Hill's wife of Clays former partner contributed to their deaths.

Why are you throwing out unproven allegations because their relationship didn meet your exacting standards?

Why did Hill and Clay "deserve" to die/