Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[LeChatNoir]

I think we’re crossing wires. The police can’t record a conversation and use it as evidence in the context of what we are discussing. I think you admitted that even though you have a recording of someone who didn’t provide permission it can’t be used as evidence.

That’s the point isn’t it?

Yes. I used the recording to encourage the other party who was being dishonest to tell the truth.

As far the police recording a conversation and using it as evidence I believe that it may be inadmissible. I would like to think the police know more about what they can and can't do than they are given credit.

Hypothetically, I might record a conversation and refer to it later to "refresh" my memory of the event. As a witness, knowing I may not be able to use the recording as evidence, I would also know that I can use my "refreshed memory" of what was said as evidence.

 

[Eaglette01]

To you all that need a song-break on this case....

Over and over in my mind I say "if only one had walked away".

I do wonder what sort of taste in music GL had; chose to blare out of his car stereo - certainly wouldnt have been this:

 

[Brian Oblivion]

A law enforcement officer may apply to an authorised judge or magistrate for the issue of a surveillance device warrant which may record private conversations or activities. A warrant can only be obtained if the officer has reason to suspect or believe that:

• An offence is being, is about to be, has been, or is likely to be committed; and
• The use of a surveillance device is necessary in the investigation and collection of evidence of that crime.

The issue of warrants is overseen by the Public Interest Monitor. If granted, the warrant with authorise the use of a specific type of device on specified premises. It may allow entry by force, if necessary, to install and to later retrieve the device.

This is correct.

 

[Thats Ambitious]

Just for a bit of context, this is the result of a shotgun shot on a police car (obviously not from this case, it is from an incident up around Lismore a few years back).

If it all happened as GL claims, how is there no shot damage to the vehicle?

 

[Sir_Loin]

A law enforcement officer may apply to an authorised judge or magistrate for the issue of a surveillance device warrant which may record private conversations or activities. A warrant can only be obtained if the officer has reason to suspect or believe that:

• An offence is being, is about to be, has been, or is likely to be committed; and
• The use of a surveillance device is necessary in the investigation and collection of evidence of that crime.

The issue of warrants is overseen by the Public Interest Monitor. If granted, the warrant with authorise the use of a specific type of device on specified premises. It may allow entry by force, if necessary, to install and to later retrieve the device.

Zindane already provided information on this. The context is police recording interactions without permission or a warrant and its admissibility.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Just for a bit of context, this is the result of a shotgun shot on a police car (obviously not from this case, it is from an incident up around Lismore a few years back).

If it all happened as GL claims, how is there no shot damage to the vehicle?

View attachment 1997648

There is damage. There’s a missing side mirror and if he is using slugs you’re not going to get damage like this if it hits the body of the car.

 

[Thats Ambitious]

There is damage. There’s a missing side mirror and if he is using slugs you’re not going to get damage like this if it hits the body of the car.

So the shot hits the side mirror and absolutely nothing hits the body of the car? Remarkable /s

 

[GrayRanga]

If there was a struggle at the front of the car then how was Clay telling them to stop from the rear passenger side of the car?
If a shot was fired and hit the side mirror, there would be fragments of the mirror everywhere. There are no fragments unless Lynn had a vacuum cleaner and picked up every single bit in the dark.
Furthermore ballistic analysis will show that bullets or pellets hitting any object will not continue its straight path. The pellets would have tumbled and taken random trajectories going in different directions. We do not see any evidence of this within the incident. Clay was shot in the side of the head whilst telling them to stop the argument which is bizarre and her dna fragments were found under the canopy which proves she was not standing when she was killed. Forensic analysis proves she was shot at point blank range with zero pellet spread i.e. she was executed.

IMO

It is illegal in Victoria to use pellet shot to shoot Deer in Deer Hunting areas.

Lynn's gun, if loaded, would have been loaded with slugs, and I'd suggest that any readily available cartridges in his vehicle would have also been slugs rather than shot

Hill's Vehicle and base was almost the epitome of a camp base. The kitchen door/awning opens to kerb and provides cover from the elements. Park it close to the tent awning and chuck a tarp over the top and you have a comfortable kitchen/dining/rest area protected from the elements.

The burn/smoke marks on the door indicate that this was the setup, you can see the marks left by the ropes.

Again, I'd suggest that this door would be left open whilst they were in camp and, if in the evening, Clay might have been in the kitchen area. This could make her in a direct line from the front of the bonnet via the mirror.

Was the vehicle found with the awning door open or closed? I think the first person that found the vehicle only said they checked the icebox under the chassis, not the kitchen.

I think it was found with awning door closed as the smoke stains are more intense at the bottom and get lighter as they go up.

Assume that the tent was sent on fire as the last action performed before departing (you don't want anybody investigating a fire whilst still loading the trailer), Chuck a gas bottle into the tent hoping it cooks off and the plastic(?) awning falls to the ground as it is no longer held up to the awning and melts and burns, presenting an intense fire between the vehicle and the tent.

I don't know about others but I leave gas bottles outside the tent unless I leave the camp.

I believe it was intended that the vehicle would go up as well

It has been more than 30 years since I've been to the Valley, I assume after being defeated by the locked gate and wanting to leave the Valley ASAP, the campsite wasn't on the most direct route and wasn't checked again.

Just one other thing about camping etiquette, you only enter another campsite from the open side where people can see you, A stranger with peaceful intent approaches your front door not the back.

 

[OzF]

I was referring to what Zidane said specifically "Also against the law to record a conversation without the permission of the other party unless as you say there is a warrant."

Not that that is relevant here, but you are correct - s.6(1) of the surveillance devices act allows you to record a private conversation that you are party to without informing the other party.

 

[Kurve]

So why was Carol Clay killed crouched down next to the car? With Shotgun pellets in her head?

Is it confirmed Clay had shotgun pellets in the remains of her head?

 

[Zidane98]

I think you are just getting a little carried away trying to prove you are right about everything. Take a breath. We are living in a world surrounded by devices that not only record voices but images. According to you, we would all be breaking the law every time we use a device in a public place that records voices and images without asking everyone around us if it was ok to do so... Seriously. Turn it up mate.

You're talking about public places which is a completely different kettle of fish. The Surveillance act refers to private places, conversations & workplaces.

Originally the discussion was about GL's interview in his own house, not in a public place. Not sure why you've brought up public places here as it is 100% irrelevant.

 

[Kurve]

So the shot hits the side mirror and absolutely nothing hits the body of the car? Remarkable /s

It's possible if it's come across the bonnet, it missed the body of the vehicle to hit Clay in the head. That's where the slug went.

 

[Zidane98]

They can't do this unless the defence leads evidence he is a good bloke, in which case the prosecution can refute it. If the defence doesn't lead such evidence, the prosecution can't lead evidence that he is not of good character

Surely it is relevant to the prosecutions case that they demonstrate GL has a short temper and / or predisposition to violent behaviour during arguments given both defence & prosecution have seemingly accepted there was an altercation to begin with.

 

[OzF]

Surely it is relevant to the prosecutions case that they demonstrate GL has a short temper and / or predisposition to violent behaviour during arguments given both defence & prosecution have seemingly accepted there was an altercation to begin with.

DBM

 

[10571z]

Lets me honest he is in his 50s facing a murder charge and will throw a Hail Mary to get off.

Is it believable

A lady was accidentally shot in the head with a rifle caused by 2 people wrestling. There is a million other directions the bullet could have gone.

He then after seeing his mistress murdered approached GL with a knife knowing he had a gun and fell on it stabbing himself?

After all that instead of ringing police and having the story proved using crime scene analytics he took the body’s away and burnt everything.

It’s basically his story and whether he can make it believable now.

 

[Lady O]

It is illegal in Victoria to use pellet shot to shoot Deer in Deer Hunting areas.

Lynn's gun, if loaded, would have been loaded with slugs, and I'd suggest that any readily available cartridges in his vehicle would have also been slugs rather than shot

Hill's Vehicle and base was almost the epitome of a camp base. The kitchen door/awning opens to kerb and provides cover from the elements. Park it close to the tent awning and chuck a tarp over the top and you have a comfortable kitchen/dining/rest area protected from the elements.

The burn/smoke marks on the door indicate that this was the setup, you can see the marks left by the ropes.

Again, I'd suggest that this door would be left open whilst they were in camp and, if in the evening, Clay might have been in the kitchen area. This could make her in a direct line from the front of the bonnet via the mirror.

Was the vehicle found with the awning door open or closed? I think the first person that found the vehicle only said they checked the icebox under the chassis, not the kitchen.

I think it was found with awning door closed as the smoke stains are more intense at the bottom and get lighter as they go up.

Assume that the tent was sent on fire as the last action performed before departing (you don't want anybody investigating a fire whilst still loading the trailer), Chuck a gas bottle into the tent hoping it cooks off and the plastic(?) awning falls to the ground as it is no longer held up to the awning and melts and burns, presenting an intense fire between the vehicle and the tent.

I don't know about others but I leave gas bottles outside the tent unless I leave the camp.

I believe it was intended that the vehicle would go up as well

It has been more than 30 years since I've been to the Valley, I assume after being defeated by the locked gate and wanting to leave the Valley ASAP, the campsite wasn't on the most direct route and wasn't checked again.

Just one other thing about camping etiquette, you only enter another campsite from the open side where people can see you, A stranger with peaceful intent approaches your front door not the back.

We had always seen the Toyota with the canopy door closed, however, photos posted yesterday from evidence in Court, show it with the door open and the esky in place.



If it had been open when the fire started, wouldn't you expect evidence of smoke damage inside the canopy?

 

[Zidane98]

Lets me honest he is in his 50s facing a murder charge and will throw a Hail Mary to get off.

This will be irrelevant to the trial

Is it believable

A lady was accidentally shot in the head with a rifle caused by 2 people wrestling. There is a million other directions the bullet could have gone.

Up to the prosecution to debunk this as there is always the small possibility this is how it actually went down no matter how far fetched it sounds.

He then after seeing his mistress murdered approached GL with a knife knowing he had a gun and fell on it stabbing himself?

Same as the gunshot story.


IMO it is also far fetched to imagine any scenario where both RH & CC were murdered over a simple argument. Prosecution needs to explain the RH death for me than it becomes logical that GL snaps and finishes of CC as a witness.

After all that instead of ringing police and having the story proved using crime scene analytics he took the body’s away and burnt everything.

Being that he has admitted to attempting to cover up his involvement and all of the things you mention apart from the implied admission of guilt path the prosecution can use this is largely irrelevant. It all happened post deaths.

It’s basically his story and whether he can make it believable now.

Forensics also tells a story. But yes, GL is the only person who can know what really happened that night in Mar 2020. Shame he can't be grilled on a lie detector test or be forced to testify.

 

[10571z]

This will be irrelevant to the trial

Up to the prosecution to debunk this as there is always the small possibility this is how it actually went down no matter how far fetched it sounds.


Same as the gunshot story.


IMO it is also far fetched to imagine any scenario where both RH & CC were murdered over a simple argument. Prosecution needs to explain the RH death for me than it becomes logical that GL snaps and finishes of CC as a witness.


Being that he has admitted to attempting to cover up his involvement and all of the things you mention apart from the implied admission of guilt path the prosecution can use this is largely irrelevant. It all happened post deaths.


Forensics also tells a story. But yes, GL is the only person who can know what really happened that night in Mar 2020. Shame he can't be grilled on a lie detector test or be forced to testify.

How is how you act following a murder “largely irrelevant”


Has forensics been able to piece it together and confirm one was shot and the other stabbed.

 

[Terrafirma]

Just for a bit of context, this is the result of a shotgun shot on a police car (obviously not from this case, it is from an incident up around Lismore a few years back).

If it all happened as GL claims, how is there no shot damage to the vehicle?

View attachment 1997648

That's a very good point. But these look like mini canon shells.?

 

[Terrafirma]

How is how you act following a murder “largely irrelevant”


Has forensics been able to piece it together and confirm one was shot and the other stabbed.

We haven't heard the forensics yet it's still yet to be presented in court.

 

[Zidane98]

How is how you act following a murder “largely irrelevant”


Has forensics been able to piece it together and confirm one was shot and the other stabbed.

GL's on trial for murder, not what he did afterwards. He's already admitted to the post offense stuff.


Prosecution did have the option of going down the implied admission of guilt by post offense behavior. We still aren't sure if they did pursue that, I am sure we will hear testimony to that effect soon if so.

 

[Zidane98]

We haven't heard the forensics yet it's still yet to be presented in court.

That was meant to be today, haven't heard anything yet.

 

[Lady O]

"The court has heard Mr Hill and Lynn had argued about Lynn hunting for deer so close to other campers.

Later that night, Lynn decided to turn the volume in his car stereo up loud in an effort to annoy Mr Hill, the jury heard.

It was about 10pm when Lynn noticed Mr Hill had got into his car and stolen his 12-gauge shotgun.
The jury heard that as Lynn tried to wrestle the firearm away from Mr Hill, the gun discharged and Ms Clay was hit in the head.

Upon seeing what had happened, Mr Hill dropped the gun and rushed over to Ms Clay's body.

Mr Dann said Lynn picked up the gun and fired its remaining shots into the air before being set upon by an enraged Mr Hill.

'The next thing is Mr Hill's advancing towards him with a knife screaming at him "she's dead",' Mr Dann said."

'A struggle developed over the knife. Mr Lynn trying to defend himself - they're locked in this struggle - and as part of that struggle the two men fall to the ground and the knife goes through the chest of Mr Hill.'



According to Lynn, Hill went to Lynn's camp and stole his shotgun from Lynn's vehicle. During the struggle, the gun discharged and shot Clay, ricocheting off Hill's vehicle's wing mirror!

However, we can clearly see that Hill's Toyota was at Hills camp, still with the wire of the aerial and the tent awning attached to the canopy.

Maybe I'm crazy, but this doesn't even remotely make sense. The camps were several hundred metres apart!

 

[Pamcake1]

Latest from the Guardian:

"The court had previously heard that such material, linked by DNA to Clay, had later been found by police on an inside section of the canopy of Hill’s Landcruiser.
The material was not visible during the video taken by Cogan of the same area."

Greg Lynn told police he used kerosene to set bodies of Russell Hill and Carol Clay alight, court hears

Lynn’s lawyer says accused – who has pleaded not guilty to murder – committed ‘terrible acts’ to evade police

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pamcake1]

Latest from the Daily Mail:

With clear photos of the number plates:

Eerie images show former Jetstar pilot driving out of the wilderness

The moment former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn left the remote wilderness where police say he murdered two elderly campers has been shown to a jury.

www.dailymail.co.uk