Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Pamcake1]

This isn't publicly available information. The tragedy happened in the 90s and with a last name like Hill it is hardly easy to link it to RH.


GL & RH must have had a conversation about the tragedy, I see no other feasible way of GL obtaining this information.

It is publically available information through a number of ways.
Research skills would tell you that.
If you look in the archives of a state library all News Papers from then are available, these can be accessed on the net through Trove.
The internet became publically available in 1991 and then very common usage 1993.
The link with the name is the area...both happened in that part of the world.

Of course they may have had a conversation but it is also possible to have obtained the information too.

 

[Kurve]

How do you know this? I have not caught the evidence where we know the mirror is involved.

The cops have pointed to the mirror as significant in the crime scene. Whether it was shot off or knocked off in a struggle, I don't know.

Nor do I know yet if the prosecution accepts the shot that killed Clay came from the front of the bonnet if it looks like it did.

 

[highcountry]

Packing up a camp site in the dark is a hard thing to do.

Even when you know where certain things are they can be hard to find with only torch or led light. Even headlights can easily obscure things due to deep shadows.

To clean up a crime scene where you have no idea about where others might have placed possessions, casings, or say splatter and blood from gun shot wounds would be an insanely difficult task.

I fatal gunshot wound to the head is going to cause someone to bleed out where they fell and seep deep into the soil. Not just a little bit. A lot.

I might have missed it but I’ve heard no evidence in court of any detection of blood in any quantity on the ground.

Only limited splatter high under the canopy.

And none near where Lynn camped.

 

[Zidane98]

It is publically available information through a number of ways.
Research skills would tell you that.
If you look in the archives of a state library all News Papers from then are available, these can be accessed on the net.
The internet became publically available in 1991 and then very common usage 1993.
The link with the name is the area...both happened in that part of the world.

Of course they may have had a conversation but it is also possible to have obtained the information too.

What is not publicly available information is that the person killed is Russel's nephew. There are hundreds of thousands of Hills around and there is no indication that the Hill killed in 1994 is related to RH.

I find it highly improbable that GL obtained this information any other way than a conversation with RH in the "Gatta.

 

[Zidane98]

Packing up a camp site in the dark is a hard thing to do.

Even when you know where certain things are they can be hard to find with only torch or led light. Even headlights can easily obscure things due to deep shadows.

To clean up a crime scene where you have no idea about where others might have placed possessions, casings, or say splatter and blood from gun shot wounds would be an insanely difficult task.

I fatal gunshot wound to the head is going to cause someone to bleed out where they fell and seep deep into the soil. Not just a little bit. A lot.

I might have missed it but I’ve heard no evidence in court of any detection of blood in any quantity on the ground.

Only limited splatter high under the canopy.

And none near where Lynn camped.

Lynn wasn't known about until they could match his car image to RH's phone. So not surprising GL's camp site was not swept at the time, nobody really knew he had camped there.


By the time the police could reliably establish GL was there in the "Gatta at the same time as the couple (around July 2020) t would probably be too late to find blood. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if GL quickly dug up any area that had blood on the ground or he contaminated it with deer blood.

 

[Kurve]

It's technically and physically challenging (Lynne doesn't look like the most athletic guy in the world), and risk of harm to the attacker is high.

Lynn collects knives, he has a special license, he's an experienced hunter and he's handy with knives.

He may even have some hand to hand combat training as a pilot.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Is there any evidence or version of events that indicate RH died anywhere other than his own campsite?

I hope the prosecution start producing evidence relating to how, when and possibly why the two people died.
Your question reminds me of the Samantha Murphy case where police said it was not hit and run but was a deliberate murder, which goes against me theory she was still alive when disposing of her.
How are we to know that RH wasn't still alive when he was in the trailer and taken away.
I think you brought up a good question.

 

[Pamcake1]

What is not publicly available information is that the person killed is Russel's nephew. There are hundreds of thousands of Hills around and there is no indication that the Hill killed in 1994 is related to RH.

I find it highly improbable that GL obtained this information any other way than a conversation with RH in the "Gatta.

1/Who knows whether R.Hill was not quoted in an article in the News Papers commenting on the death.
2/Who knows if GL didn't cross reference the Death Notices in the Paper around the same time as the accident.
3/ As said before both the death of the nephew and the fact that R. HIll was in the same area, not more than 3km's from where the shooting accident happened. The link was the Gatta.
4/ Who knows that there wasn't a reference in a Newspaper that made the connection in a story of both the nephew and RH both dying in tragic circumstance in the same area.

 

[Zidane98]

1/Who knows whether R.Hill was not quoted in an article in the News Papers commenting on the death.
2/Who knows if GL didn't cross reference the Death Notices in the Paper around the same time as the accident.
3/ As said before both the death of the nephew and the fact that R. HIll was in the same area, not more than 3km's from where the shooting accident happened. The link was the Gatta.
4/ Who knows that there wasn't a reference in a Newspaper that made the connection in a story of both the nephew and RH both dying in tragic circumstance in the same area.

I tried this myself and can only find a few cursory mentions of a tragedy in 1994.


With 3) are you saying GL simply assumed they were related because it happened in the "Gatta and he had the same last name? GL would look silly giving this tesimony if it turned out the Hill killed in a hunting accident back in 1994 was not actually related to RH.


I just don't a scenario here where GL reliably knew the Hill killed in a hunting accident in the "Gatta in the 90s was actually RH's nephew other than from the two having a conversation. It isn't impossible for him to find out in other ways but it would be incredibly difficult to do so and probably raise a few eyebrows too with the various info requests needed to confirm the story.

 

[Kurve]

I tried this myself and can only find a few cursory mentions of a tragedy in 1994.


With 3) are you saying GL simply assumed they were related because it happened in the "Gatta and he had the same last name? GL would look silly giving this tesimony if it turned out the Hill killed in a hunting accident back in 1994 was not actually related to RH.


I just don't a scenario here where GL reliably knew the Hill killed in a hunting accident in the "Gatta in the 90s was actually RH's nephew other than from the two having a conversation. It isn't impossible for him to find out in other ways but it would be incredibly difficult to do so and probably raise a few eyebrows too with the various info requests needed to confirm the story.

That Hill told GL about the hunting accident is probably true, it's consistent with evidence from other witnesses Hill camped near. Hill told others at different times the same thing and he also asked them questions about their gun safety habits.

 

[Pamcake1]

I tried this myself and can only find a few cursory mentions of a tragedy in 1994.


With 3) are you saying GL simply assumed they were related because it happened in the "Gatta and he had the same last name? GL would look silly giving this tesimony if it turned out the Hill killed in a hunting accident back in 1994 was not actually related to RH.


I just don't a scenario here where GL reliably knew the Hill killed in a hunting accident in the "Gatta in the 90s was actually RH's nephew other than from the two having a conversation. It isn't impossible for him to find out in other ways but it would be incredibly difficult to do so and probably raise a few eyebrows too with the various info requests needed to confirm the story.

The easiest on was number 4 in my list.
Was there an article that mentions both as a story that GL then saw and included it in his story? It is possible.
In doing a quick search you just proved that it can be found on the net quickly...the link being the Gatta...GL might have then gone further into researching it.
Using Trove as a search tool as I said you can find the News Papers of the day?

 

[Zidane98]

The easiest on was number 4 in my list.
Was there an article that mentions both as a story that GL then saw and included it in his story? It is possible.
In doing a quick search you just proved that it can be found on the net quickly...the link being the Gatta...GL might have then gone further into researching it.
Using Trove as a search tool as I said you can find the News Papers of the day?

You can use trove, also family research sites if you delve deep enough.


But I don't see a possible way GL could know that the two are related off public info. Different if there was an uncommon surname. The average person wouldn't assume two different Hills are related.

 

[GrayRanga]

There seems to be no DNA evidence yet hat supports RH dying at his own campsite while there is DNA evidence to suggest CC was killed in or near RH's vehicle by a shotgun (part of her skull found, blood/fat DNA deposits found under the canopy of the vehicle)

The cranium is an enclosed sphere. anything going in will create pressure and it blow the sphere apart. A shotgun slug at close range has a lot of energy.

However, a slug hitting a torso will blow a hole in it and may atomise the ejaculated blood, bone and gore that could paint a sold surface, such as a tent wall?

I'm no hunter, or firearms experience beyond firearms safety, so I have no experience to draw on

A shot from the other side of the bonnet, using the toilet tent as cover to stalk up, into the body of a man and move more to front of the bonnet for a snap shot to someone standing under the awning

That's a possible scenario, a firearm hunter will use the tools they are most comfortable with

 

[EagleEyes1]

Packing up a camp site in the dark is a hard thing to do.

Even when you know where certain things are they can be hard to find with only torch or led light. Even headlights can easily obscure things due to deep shadows.

To clean up a crime scene where you have no idea about where others might have placed possessions, casings, or say splatter and blood from gun shot wounds would be an insanely difficult task.

I fatal gunshot wound to the head is going to cause someone to bleed out where they fell and seep deep into the soil. Not just a little bit. A lot.

I might have missed it but I’ve heard no evidence in court of any detection of blood in any quantity on the ground.

Only limited splatter high under the canopy.

And none near where Lynn camped.

Exactly. Lynn was already packed and ready to go. He wasn’t going to pack up after murdering two people. He would have left forensic evidence everywhere.

He waited til dark and came within the cover of Hill’s car emerging from the bonnet side and ambushing both Hill and Clay while they were both sitting around their camp. This isn’t someone coming to chat and retrieve a gun it’s someone with an intention to murder.

He shot Hill where he sat hence why a large area of the campsite including almost all the items were burnt where blood would have certainly splattered.

Clay was executed in the most brutal way, point blank to the head.

IMO

 

[Pamcake1]

I tried this myself and can only find a few cursory mentions of a tragedy in 1994.


With 3) are you saying GL simply assumed they were related because it happened in the "Gatta and he had the same last name? GL would look silly giving this tesimony if it turned out the Hill killed in a hunting accident back in 1994 was not actually related to RH.


I just don't a scenario here where GL reliably knew the Hill killed in a hunting accident in the "Gatta in the 90s was actually RH's nephew other than from the two having a conversation. It isn't impossible for him to find out in other ways but it would be incredibly difficult to do so and probably raise a few eyebrows too with the various info requests needed to confirm the story.

Given that GL is a known 'control freak' I am quite certain that he would have run down any clue, any article and any information on the case and the people involved.
It is easy to look at what the local paper stories (Gippsland) and their interest in it and if you remember because of lockdowns this was a huge story at the time and went on and on.
Who knows what information GL gleened and has used to shape his story.
He certainly had the time and he had an ulterior motive for doing so.
IMO

 

[jason_recliner]

Lynn collects knives, he has a special license, he's an experienced hunter and he's handy with knives.

He may even have some hand to hand combat training as a pilot.

Yeah but he doesn't leap down from the trees and slaughter the deers in a brutal close-quarters knife attack (AFAIK). He'd need a pretty stout branch, for starters...

He may even have some hand to hand combat training as a pilot.

Anything's possible.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Packing up a camp site in the dark is a hard thing to do.

Even when you know where certain things are they can be hard to find with only torch or led light. Even headlights can easily obscure things due to deep shadows.

To clean up a crime scene where you have no idea about where others might have placed possessions, casings, or say splatter and blood from gun shot wounds would be an insanely difficult task.

I fatal gunshot wound to the head is going to cause someone to bleed out where they fell and seep deep into the soil. Not just a little bit. A lot.

I might have missed it but I’ve heard no evidence in court of any detection of blood in any quantity on the ground.

Only limited splatter high under the canopy.

And none near where Lynn camped.

Yes, I’m inclined to think it was earlier in the evening when it was still light. Not sure RH would have sent the drone up in the dark. Probably soon after the radio call IMO. GL objected, told Hill to bring it down, Hill refused and Lynn produced his gun and threatened to shoot it down. Hill landed it, Lynn grabbed it and ………..
IMO

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

What is not publicly available information is that the person killed is Russel's nephew. There are hundreds of thousands of Hills around and there is no indication that the Hill killed in 1994 is related to RH.

I find it highly improbable that GL obtained this information any other way than a conversation with RH in the "Gatta.

I've known about it from day one due to personal connections (and hoped the media never found out) and out of the dozens of internet sleuths here, Reddit and Websleuths not a single person made the connection until it was entered into evidence.
We also heard evidence given from hunters a week earlier of RH sharing the same story, I imagine he probably shared it with practically every single hunter he came across that hung around for a chat long enough.

 

[Badd0g]

Moon rise on 20 March 2020 for Melbourne was 3:03 am and moon set was 5:44 pm and a waning moon. Illumination of the moon face was 17%.

I know the Lattitude, Longitude and elevation of the Valley is different to Melbourne, but for all intents and purposes, it was still pitch black after last light of the setting sun

Moonrise, Moonset, and Moon Phase in Melbourne, March 2020

Moonrise and moonset time, Moon direction, and Moon phase in Melbourne – Victoria – Australia for March 2020. When and where does the Moon rise and set?

www.timeanddate.com

Hill, not a hunter and without the accoutrements of a hunter (night vision goggles), crept up to Lynn's vehicle in total darkness, selected the shotty, found the ammunition, and despite having minimal firearms experience, loaded a shot gun with at least 5 round capacity with 3 rounds and turned the safety off in the dark and crept back to his campsite?

I know that on a moonless nights in the High Country it seems you can touch the stars, but, come on

We're on the same page here...as I said, little to no moonlight, lots to do. I haven't seen anything that talks about what GL had by way of shelter (swag? tent? etc), but I think we all agree (and I posted the same after opening statements) that he packed up his campsite, dragged two full sized humans into his trailer before raiding the car, gathering up all their gear and any obvious evidence (including at least 3 shotgun shell casings), throwing it in the tent and setting it alight - all in pitch dark. That's gotta be more than an hour's worth of activity, two is pushing it.

 

[Badd0g]

Perhaps someone more familiar with hunting can weigh in here...

I was of the notion that Sambar deer are very wary creatures that like densely foliaged, steep sided hills which made me think GL hunting close to camp (ie on the south side of river where it's flat and open) was probably unlikely.
But.... The weed sprayers said he was wearing gaiters when he approached them and he said he was all sweaty coz he'd been hunting - suggesting he had been hunting close by.

Questions...
Are Sambar likely to be around at dusk... Coming down to the river to drink?
And by gaiters, do they mean waders (like he is wearing in one of the pictures circulating?) If so, could that potentially indicate he was hunting from the river?

 

[Kurve]

Exactly. Lynn was already packed and ready to go. He wasn’t going to pack up after murdering two people. He would have left forensic evidence everywhere.

He waited til dark and came within the cover of Hill’s car emerging from the bonnet side and ambushing both Hill and Clay while they were both sitting around their camp. This isn’t someone coming to chat and retrieve a gun it’s someone with an intention to murder.

He shot Hill where he sat hence why a large area of the campsite including almost all the items were burnt where blood would have certainly splattered.

Clay was executed in the most brutal way, point blank to the head.

IMO

The prosecution can't get anywhere proving your theory that Hill was also shot at his campsite, which is why they're leaving it open.

If the prosecution launched your theory, they've locked themselves in to something that can't be proven and which isn't consistent with the evidence they have.

 

[Kurve]

If it was about the drone capturing Lynn doing illegal stuff, surely Lynn would probably try and STEAL it first? Problem solved.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

If it was about the drone capturing Lynn doing illegal stuff, surely Lynn would probably try and STEAL it first? Problem solved.

I think he'd just grab it, thinking he had the wood over these old folk. Then Hill demanded it back...

 

[Sqotty from office works]

Questions...
Are Sambar likely to be around at dusk... Coming down to the river to drink?
And by gaiters, do they mean waders (like he is wearing in one of the pictures circulating?) If so, could that potentially indicate he was hunting from the river?

I consider "gaiters" to be calf high snake gaiters.
All deer sleep most of the day and are moving from dusk to dawn.
Very skittish animals that see hear and smell you before you even get a glimpse of them.

 

[Kurve]

I think he'd just grab it, thinking he had the wood over these old folk. Then Hill demanded it back...

I don't think Hill stole off Lynn, it's the other way around. Lynn had either stolen, or was busted trying to steal the drone.