Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Teen Wolf]

Absolutely. Is it reasonable to destroy all evidence of two accidental deaths, the only evidence that could ever prove your innocence if required?

View attachment 1999738
"If Greg Lynne tricked, you must convict!"

Just because he spoliate, don't mean he assassinate!

 

[champagnegirl]

Looking at it objectively, Pilots are a respected bunch in the community. Everywhere really. Revered even. Applauded and cheered when their skills see us safely on the tarmac. Idolised by little kids who are in awe that this person with the envied shoulder epiletts and the envied captain’s hat is saying hello to them. These people who
hold the lives of 300/400+ people in their control. They are routinely tested, medically examined, psychologically evaluated, background checked. These are intelligent people. You do have to be a pretty good all round intelligent human to pilot these beasts of the sky. And you are trained. In how to remain calm in a threatening situation, how to think outside the square etc. After all, it’s not all about you, it’s 450 people who need to make it
home.

So this type of person experiences an horrific encounter that for whatever reasons, goes horribly wrong and results in 2 innocent people being killed.

I reckon he’d be calm. He’d reason he had more chance of leaving everything as it happened, calling the cops, having an emotional breakdown maybe, getting manslaughter by misadventure. Everything he said can be proven. Hed maybe spend a few years in the slammer, maybe earning the respect of fellow inmates and the screws with his weekly how to fly a jetliner series, or my life as an airbus pilot etc. Fascinating stuff. He go back to his life (not as a pilot) but no doubt his super and his wife working, lufe wouldn’t be too intolerable.

This man is trained to think like this. Instead for some odd reason he literally blows his life out of the water by contaminating a crime scene, concealing the deaths of two people, interfering with and hiding their bodies, cremating them and then pulverising their remains into dust. To say nothing of the horror the deceased families would live with forever. And no bodies to bury, just a few ziploc bags.

Why would he choose to obliterate their very existence. And to totally screw up his own life. Had to be a reason he would rather take the gamble than fess up at the scene of the “accident” or get rid of the scene of the crime. Doesn’t add up

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

It’s not salacious gossip, RH was using viagra to get it on with his lover CC. The ripped up script labels were found in her bathroom bin by a detective.

It is salacious and it’s irrelevant to the case.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

A pilot is no less likely to murder someone than anyone else, given the circumstances. Police can murder (recent case), doctors can murder, businessmen, you name it.

 

[champagnegirl]

That is not in dispute. Of course anyone from any walk of life can murder one or many. A Pilot has a huge responsibility every time he gets into that seat to pilot a plane. Certainly more than any other high profile profession.. Pilots who fly the bigger wide bellied planes can have over 400 people’s lives in their control for a very short span of time. A rogue Surgeon might do one at a time but it would take a while. A cop might do a crowd but again, hard to reach the dizzy heights of as many innocent victims as plane passengers.

The point I was making these people are highly trained, expected to act calmly and rationally in a crisis in the best interests of a huge amount of people. So what happened to this fellow. He was mid career, flew international flights, He had all the training and knowledge to handle a bizarre “accidental” death event of 2 innocent people.

IMO He shat in his own nest. He destroyed any hope of vindicating his story that it was a total stuff up but not wilful muder. IMO

Forensics would have done their intricate science and provided the reinforcement of Lynn’s story.

Instead by his own admission, he trashed the scene, hootfooted
it, interfered with the bodies, hid them, burnt them, pulverised their ashes but why ? He must have known it might be a bit difficult to justify his actions post the incident at the camp, rather than perhaps tell it like it happened if it was in fact a bizarre accident.

 

[Lady O]

That is not in dispute. Of course anyone from any walk of life can murder one or many. A Pilot has a huge responsibility every time he gets into that seat to pilot a plane. Certainly more than any other high profile profession.. Pilots who fly the bigger wide bellied planes can have over 400 people’s lives in their control for a very short span of time. A rogue Surgeon might do one at a time but it would take a while. A cop might do a crowd but again, hard to reach the dizzy heights of as many innocent victims as plane passengers.

The point I was making these people are highly trained, expected to act calmly and rationally in a crisis in the best interests of a huge amount of people. So what happened to this fellow. He was mid career, flew international flights, He had all the training and knowledge to handle a bizarre “accidental” death event of 2 innocent people.

IMO He shat in his own nest. He destroyed any hope of vindicating his story that it was a total stuff up but not wilful muder. IMO

Forensics would have done their intricate science and provided the reinforcement of Lynn’s story.

Instead by his own admission, he trashed the scene, hootfooted
it, interfered with the bodies, hid them, burnt them, pulverised their ashes but why ? He must have known it might be a bit difficult to justify his actions post the incident at the camp, rather than perhaps tell it like it happened if it was in fact a bizarre accident.

Why? He didn't know he'd been spotted on the CCTV.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

That is not in dispute. Of course anyone from any walk of life can murder one or many. A Pilot has a huge responsibility every time he gets into that seat to pilot a plane. Certainly more than any other high profile profession.. Pilots who fly the bigger wide bellied planes can have over 400 people’s lives in their control for a very short span of time. A rogue Surgeon might do one at a time but it would take a while. A cop might do a crowd but again, hard to reach the dizzy heights of as many innocent victims as plane passengers.

The point I was making these people are highly trained, expected to act calmly and rationally in a crisis in the best interests of a huge amount of people. So what happened to this fellow. He was mid career, flew international flights, He had all the training and knowledge to handle a bizarre “accidental” death event of 2 innocent people.

IMO He shat in his own nest. He destroyed any hope of vindicating his story that it was a total stuff up but not wilful muder. IMO

Forensics would have done their intricate science and provided the reinforcement of Lynn’s story.

Instead by his own admission, he trashed the scene, hootfooted
it, interfered with the bodies, hid them, burnt them, pulverised their ashes but why ? He must have known it might be a bit difficult to justify his actions post the incident at the camp, rather than perhaps tell it like it happened if it was in fact a bizarre accident.

Or he's just a nut job with a short fuse and entitlement issues who is ready to go off and then clean up his mess ?

 

[champagnegirl]

That is my point. By the time he was filmed on CCTV he was on his way out, he was leaving the scene. He had already trashed the campsite, loaded the victims into his trailer and he was on his way to hide the bodies. He has admitted this.

He had already decided.

With his training and background, he had the ability to calm down, think rationally and decide that the wisest way might be to call the cops. Let them
have the bodies for proper autopsies, scrutinise every inch of the campsite etc

Not to trash the scene, flee with the bodies and it goes on. Why was he so keen to get rid of the
Bodies ?

He maintains he panicked, as I’m sure he must have. But on the other hand, he had the choice and he chose to flee.

 

[Lady O]

That is my point. By the time he was filmed on CCTV he was on his way out, he was leaving the scene. He had already trashed the campsite, loaded the victims into his trailer and he was on his way to hide the bodies. He has admitted this.

He had already decided.

With his training and background, he had the ability to calm down, think rationally and decide that the wisest way might be to call the cops. Let them
have the bodies for proper autopsies, scrutinise every inch of the campsite etc

Not to trash the scene, flee with the bodies and it goes on. Why was he so keen to get rid of the
Bodies ?

He maintains he panicked, as I’m sure he must have. But on the other hand, he had the choice and he chose to flee.

Maybe he was thinking of just dumping the bodies in the bush somewhere. Then he decided he really needed to make sure they couldn't be found, or if they were, their remains couldn't be easily identified as human, and if they were, it would make identification very difficult. I think he was confident that even if they were found and identified, their deaths couldn't be connected to him.

 

[Awakening]

That is my point. By the time he was filmed on CCTV he was on his way out, he was leaving the scene. He had already trashed the campsite, loaded the victims into his trailer and he was on his way to hide the bodies. He has admitted this.

He had already decided.

With his training and background, he had the ability to calm down, think rationally and decide that the wisest way might be to call the cops. Let them
have the bodies for proper autopsies, scrutinise every inch of the campsite etc

Not to trash the scene, flee with the bodies and it goes on. Why was he so keen to get rid of the
Bodies ?

He maintains he panicked, as I’m sure he must have. But on the other hand, he had the choice and he chose to flee.

I agree with you completely.

If his version is true that there were these two bizarre accidental deaths, I would have expected him to act as you have suggested.

He’s a pilot, a married dad, he is intelligent. He is also a man who hunts and camps alone regularly so is resourceful and has no doubt encountered stressful situations in both his career and camping life. He is not normally inclined to panic, he appears to be a calm thoughtful individual.

Thats why what he did afterwards is so telling in my opinion. If you look at what he just did afterwards this is a not a man who is panicking after two accidental deaths. This is a man who is using his calm, his intelligence, his resourcefulness to try and ensure he would never get caught.

He wasn’t thinking of the victims or the families. He wasn’t demonstrating any remorse or regret. He was demonstrating his ability to very coldly and methodically destroy their remains so that he could continue on his life without repercussions.

And by all accounts he did just that. He continued home to his wife and children and his job. He had time, so much time, to find a lawyer and go to the police and say this is what happened.

Instead he chose to go back to further pulverise their remains. Despite the intense media coverage of the missing campers and their devastated family and friends.

In the aftermath he also demonstrated he is physically strong and fit which points to Russell - even an angry Russell as being no physical threat to a man like Lynn.

Even if I thought the straight from the western movie story he’s provided was believable, which I don’t, it’s his actions immediately after that are the most telling to me.

My opinion only.

 

[LeChatNoir]

That is my point. By the time he was filmed on CCTV he was on his way out, he was leaving the scene. He had already trashed the campsite, loaded the victims into his trailer and he was on his way to hide the bodies. He has admitted this.

He had already decided.

With his training and background, he had the ability to calm down, think rationally and decide that the wisest way might be to call the cops. Let them
have the bodies for proper autopsies, scrutinise every inch of the campsite etc

Not to trash the scene, flee with the bodies and it goes on. Why was he so keen to get rid of the
Bodies ?

He maintains he panicked, as I’m sure he must have. But on the other hand, he had the choice and he chose to flee.

So, he panicked at the campsite and that was followed by what one can argue is what a person in a state of panic may do. Hard to believe, but possible. Did he panic again when he returned and burnt the bodies, and panic again when he smashed their bones scattering and interring them.. That is an awful lot of panic over several months, by someone who is trained not to panic. And this panic that he allegedly suffered so acutely, didn't spill over in his personal life? Somehow he was able (allegedly) to remain calm and in control that no one noticed? IMO, yeah.... nah!

 

[champagnegirl]

Irregardless of his plan, once he had left the burnt out campsite, with the bodies, it was too late. So for some reason, apart from panic, and thinking the so called accidental deaths of the 2 victims would not be believed etc, he made the choice to take the bodies and dump them.

Which he did do. I think he hid both bodies in an area of the Union Spur Track.

Six months later, he returned to perform the totally callous and brutal act of destroying the hidden remains of the 2 victims by cremating them, and in a final stomach churning act, returned the fired remains to dust. From dust to dust and ashes to ashes.

IMO that was one ghoulish attempt to wipe out all traces of 2 innocent souls. Forget about affairs, viagra, drones, and all the rest. Why would a person innocent of deliberately causing the deaths of two people, strive to enact a plan so bizarre it seems almost impossible to imagine.

 

[Irma]

It’s not salacious gossip, RH was using viagra to get it on with his lover CC. The ripped up script labels were found in her bathroom bin by a detective.

I just took it as being a piece of evidence to reinforce that Russell & Carol (regardless of what our own personal views and morals are) were in a warm and loving relationship, and I didn’t give it another thought. I’m surprised to see it implied that the crown prosecutor was being a gossip!

 

[Irma]

So, he panicked at the campsite and that was followed by what one can argue is what a person in a state of panic may do. Hard to believe, but possible. Did he panic again when he returned and burnt the bodies, and panic again when he smashed their bones scattering and interring them.. That is an awful lot of panic over several months, by someone who is trained not to panic. And this panic that he allegedly suffered so acutely, didn't spill over in his personal life? Somehow he was able (allegedly) to remain calm and in control that no one noticed? IMO, yeah.... nah!

I’d hazard a guess that some anxiety did spill over into his private life, as allegedly the police have recordings of him talking to himself on multiple occasions, and presumably about the deaths. Also that they arrested him when they did as they apparently were worried he might take his own life. Wasn’t there an argument with his wife on that morning (of his arrest), before he left home? So I don’t think he did quite manage to entirely keep himself together.

I think he could also argue that yes he panicked initially, but once he’d set the wheels in motion there was no turning back? Maybe there was no single point along the way, that he thought he could go to the police and even remotely be believed? And so he carried on... I dunno, I’m playing devils advocate here, I don’t believe the half of what he’s claiming, but just throwing in some food for thought.

 

[Spectrix]

But weren't there other people camping in the national park? Would any of them heard the gas bottle explosion? Or were they camped too far away?

A gas bottle is solid heavy gauge steel and it would take a very intense fire to get to the point that it malformed enough to breach.
I'm unsure if there was an explosion.
Are there high res photos of the burnt campsite? I'm not sure that I can see a gas bottle with a quick google search.

Edit - "...a single fire began in the tent near where two gas bottles were located."

I guess the question is did they ignite.

 

[highcountry]

Pretty much the view from the visitors gallery.

Jury on left. Press on the right.

Lynn sits in the dock directly under the visitors gallery.

Built back in the 1880s the Supreme Court complex is huge.

The dark wood, century old decor, and high ornate ceilings certainly all scream out ‘Supreme’.

 

[highcountry]

Yep.

Especially if the prosecution is allowed to enter his post deaths actions into evidence.

That the defence have already mentioned Lynn's decisions post event, suggests that these actions will be lead into evidence

The Court may also explore the "reasonable man" (or to be perfectly woke; the reasonable person) test.

Are the actions that of a reasonable person in those circumstances?

I would suggest that a reasonable person would, if faced with two accidental deaths would immediately seek medical assistance or at least notify authorities of their deaths and remain in the vicinity until assistance arrived.

He did have a radio (the aerial can be seen in the photo taken the next morning) but may not had reception, but if he driven towards Dargo to meet the Dargo Mt Hotham Rd (and dump the bodies), he would have passed through or near places with radio or phone reception. If I remember correctly, Dargo has a publc phone near the pub

I would suggest that a series of unfortunate decisions, including moving the bodies, stealing possibly incriminating evidence, burning the scene to destroy evidence, removing and dumping the bodies in a remote location, revisiting the decaying corpses, setting fire to them with an accelerant so fierce that DNA is not readily attainable and then (if I read the evidence correctly) breaking up and scattering the bones are not those of reasonable person faced with "tragic" accidental deaths

If the post events are led into evidence, the jury will be faced with weighing Lynn's evidence in the ROI against the other evidence to form the opinion as to whether story on the ROI are sufficient to satisfy reasonable doubt

Lynn’s defence, and his story, seems to be about denying all culpability. That they were just two accidental deaths.

However the fact that Hill was able, by Lynn’s own account, to gain access to his guns AND ammo - means that Lynn was allegedly in breach of the law.

A breech of firearms law that directly, allegedly, contributed to the two deaths which has the potential to shatter the notion of them being solely ‘innocent accidents’.

 

[GrayRanga]

This is case is text book fascinating - both simple and complex.So many rabbit holes if you want to go down them.


Never thought the older couple would have started anything physical, as two 70 somethings, having romantic trip, out in the woods. Not in 100 years. Way too risky.

Occam’s Razor Theory

IMO

Thanks for the reminder

What is the simplest approach that fits within the broad parameters of Lynn's ROI?

He comes back from hunting about 6:00 pm and is followed to his campsite by Hill after the radio sked, who (after having a couple of beers) expresses his concerns about hunting in Valley because a relative was killed there.

A physical altercation occurs (doesn't matter who started it), which results in Hill's death; punch, knife, blunt instrument or heart attack?

Doesn't really matter, but he is left with a body and Clay knows that Hill went to speak with him. So, with post fight adrenalin coursing through his veins he goes to Hill's campsite, approaching from blind side by the toilet tent and fires a snap shot across the bonnet with the shot gun (hitting the mirror) and kills Clay.

He's left with two corpses and now the anger/adrenalin/blood lust has left him, he starts planning the scene so it can't be tracked back to him.

Takes the drone so it looks like a theft gone wrong. Whilst it's still light he cleans up Hill's camp site as much as possible and goes to his site to pack up. He then does back to set fire to Hill's camp

The only changes to his ROI is where the altercation occured, and removing who pulled the trigger of Clay's fatal shot. Adds the element of Hill recording his actions via drone later for verisimilitude

 

[GrayRanga]

Lynn’s defence, and his story, seems to be about denying all culpability. That they were just two accidental deaths.

However the fact that Hill was able, by Lynn’s own account, to gain access to his guns AND ammo - means that Lynn was allegedly in breach of the law.

A breech of firearms law that directly, allegedly, contributed to the two deaths which has the potential to shatter the notion of them being solely ‘innocent accidents’.

It is a stunning building and Court # 1 is truly awe inspiring, it exudes the majesty of the law through it's very core.

Fun facts: Back in 1980 two people were murdered in the halls outside Court 11.

An aggrieved plaintiff who had who had lost a civil case about monies owed shot the other party and his barrister.

At the end of the lane where all the snaps are taken of the accused being led from in cuffs from the Prison van, there is a court yard (which may be still used a car park), which was big enough to turn a horse drawn cab around

 

[Poppy Penny]

I wonder what Lynn thinks would be an adequate custodial sentence for his crimes?

I wonder what the $ cost of his crimes with police and other investigative expenditure are?

I wonder what his legal costs are and how much the taxpayer has forked out?

Most importantly, does he truly fathom the human cost of the two victims he killed and the emotional pain and suffering he has inflicted on their families, friends and loved ones?

In MY bag of feelings, I have absolutely NO sympathy or empathy for Lynn whatsoever.

 

[Pamcake1]

It is a stunning building and Court # 1 is truly awe inspiring, it exudes the majesty of the law through it's very core.

Fun facts: Back in 1980 two people were murdered in the halls outside Court 11.

An aggrieved plaintiff who had who had lost a civil case about monies owed shot the other party and his barrister.

At the end of the lane where all the snaps are taken of the accused being led from in cuffs from the Prison van, there is a court yard (which may be still used a car park), which was big enough to turn a horse drawn cab around

I used to work directly opposite it on the 3rd floor in 460 Lonsdale street in the early 80's for the Vic Law Dept. Titles Office, next to the then 3LO.
We had a great overview of the Supreme Court and out the back from the tearoom window, we could see the back entrance of the old morgue.
There was always a flurry when the big cases were on that we could watch from our perch.
For atmosphere behind the old Births, Deaths and Marriages Registry building there is a building that used to house all of the Land Titles, is an amazing Victorian building opposite side and around the corner in Queens st.
What the public don't see there, behind is where they once kept all the records has tiers going around a central square with cast iron circular staircases and balustrade railings right around for access. It's really striking in it's practical beauty.
An incredible purpose built building of the Victorian era, built around the same time as the Supreme Court when Melbourne was coming off the boom time of being the richest place in the world.

 

[highcountry]

A gas bottle is solid heavy gauge steel and it would take a very intense fire to get to the point that it malformed enough to breach.
I'm unsure if there was an explosion.
Are there high res photos of the burnt campsite? I'm not sure that I can see a gas bottle with a quick google search.

Edit - "...a single fire began in the tent near where two gas bottles were located."

I guess the question is did they ignite.

I’m surprised no one heard the gun shots. 1 km is not that far away on dead quiet night.

Agree with this.

 

[highcountry]

Thanks for the reminder

What is the simplest approach that fits within the broad parameters of Lynn's ROI?

He comes back from hunting about 6:00 pm and is followed to his campsite by Hill after the radio sked, who (after having a couple of beers) expresses his concerns about hunting in Valley because a relative was killed there.

A physical altercation occurs (doesn't matter who started it), which results in Hill's death; punch, knife, blunt instrument or heart attack?

Doesn't really matter, but he is left with a body and Clay knows that Hill went to speak with him. So, with post fight adrenalin coursing through his veins he goes to Hill's campsite, approaching from blind side by the toilet tent and fires a snap shot across the bonnet with the shot gun (hitting the mirror) and kills Clay.

He's left with two corpses and now the anger/adrenalin/blood lust has left him, he starts planning the scene so it can't be tracked back to him.

Takes the drone so it looks like a theft gone wrong. Whilst it's still light he cleans up Hill's camp site as much as possible and goes to his site to pack up. He then does back to set fire to Hill's camp

The only changes to his ROI is where the altercation occured, and removing who pulled the trigger of Clay's fatal shot. Adds the element of Hill recording his actions via drone later for verisimilitude

Looking at it objectively, Pilots are a respected bunch in the community. Everywhere really. Revered even. Applauded and cheered when their skills see us safely on the tarmac. Idolised by little kids who are in awe that this person with the envied shoulder epiletts and the envied captain’s hat is saying hello to them. These people who
hold the lives of 300/400+ people in their control. They are routinely tested, medically examined, psychologically evaluated, background checked. These are intelligent people. You do have to be a pretty good all round intelligent human to pilot these beasts of the sky. And you are trained. In how to remain calm in a threatening situation, how to think outside the square etc. After all, it’s not all about you, it’s 450 people who need to make it
home.

So this type of person experiences an horrific encounter that for whatever reasons, goes horribly wrong and results in 2 innocent people being killed.

I reckon he’d be calm. He’d reason he had more chance of leaving everything as it happened, calling the cops, having an emotional breakdown maybe, getting manslaughter by misadventure. Everything he said can be proven. Hed maybe spend a few years in the slammer, maybe earning the respect of fellow inmates and the screws with his weekly how to fly a jetliner series, or my life as an airbus pilot etc. Fascinating stuff. He go back to his life (not as a pilot) but no doubt his super and his wife working, lufe wouldn’t be too intolerable.

This man is trained to think like this. Instead for some odd reason he literally blows his life out of the water by contaminating a crime scene, concealing the deaths of two people, interfering with and hiding their bodies, cremating them and then pulverising their remains into dust. To say nothing of the horror the deceased families would live with forever. And no bodies to bury, just a few ziploc bags.

Why would he choose to obliterate their very existence. And to totally screw up his own life. Had to be a reason he would rather take the gamble than fess up at the scene of the “accident” or get rid of the scene of the crime. Doesn’t add up

You can have a very high IQ and do really dumb things.

I’ve know a few very smart individuals who were socially inept and isolated - sometimes as a result of their of the charts intelligence.

I’ve had nearly 40 years in aviation. I have many pilots as friends. That being said, as a group they are an odd bunch. Many lacking in social graces but they muddle through life as their epaulets bestow respect where ever they go.

Some of the most seriously messed up people I know are pilots.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Irregardless

Regardless

You can have a very high IQ and do really dumb things.

I’ve know a few very smart individuals who were socially inept and isolated - sometimes as a result of their of the charts intelligence.

I’ve had nearly 40 years in aviation. I have many pilots as friends. That being said, as a group they are an odd bunch. Many lacking in social graces but they muddle through life as their epaulets bestow respect where ever they go.

Some of the most seriously messed up people I know are pilots.

I don’t think I wanted to know that

I can think of at least two in recent years who fitted that description

 

[Awakening]

cancels flight