Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[LeChatNoir]

Thanks for the reminder

What is the simplest approach that fits within the broad parameters of Lynn's ROI?

He comes back from hunting about 6:00 pm and is followed to his campsite by Hill after the radio sked, who (after having a couple of beers) expresses his concerns about hunting in Valley because a relative was killed there.

A physical altercation occurs (doesn't matter who started it), which results in Hill's death; punch, knife, blunt instrument or heart attack?

Doesn't really matter, but he is left with a body and Clay knows that Hill went to speak with him. So, with post fight adrenalin coursing through his veins he goes to Hill's campsite, approaching from blind side by the toilet tent and fires a snap shot across the bonnet with the shot gun (hitting the mirror) and kills Clay.

He's left with two corpses and now the anger/adrenalin/blood lust has left him, he starts planning the scene so it can't be tracked back to him.

Takes the drone so it looks like a theft gone wrong. Whilst it's still light he cleans up Hill's camp site as much as possible and goes to his site to pack up. He then does back to set fire to Hill's camp

The only changes to his ROI is where the altercation occured, and removing who pulled the trigger of Clay's fatal shot. Adds the element of Hill recording his actions via drone later for verisimilitude

I just can't see him losing his s**t "anger/adrenalin/blood lust". Not in the way normal people do, at least. IMO, he feels like the type who will not let the smallest 'slight' go unpunished. And the punishment is colossal! He feels to me, like he is calm, collected, and well-thought out before he makes his move. IMO

 

[Lady O]

"By the time up to a foot of soil from the location had been excavated and sieved, the team had recovered "a significant amount of intensely heat-affected biological matter," he said.

Teeth, bone fragments and a wristwatch recovered from a cavity at the foot of a felled tree were among the charred remains.

Dr Dadna Hartman said a partial DNA profile could only be yielded from one bone fragment by the time some of the material arrived for analysis at the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine.

"If we have items that haven't been exposed to heat through burning, we should be able to recover a DNA profile, but that also depends on the age and antiquity of those samples," the molecular biologist explained.

"However, if those samples have been exposed to extreme heat or fire, it makes them less likely to be able to yield DNA for analysis."

In analysis, Dr Hartman concluded DNA from the bone fragment matched Mr Hill's profile.

Tests of bone fragments found at Bucks Camp across two searches in March 2022 were found to match Ms Clay's."


I had the impression from reading here that it was the prosecution who questioned Mrs Hill about the Viagra, but from this article, it appears it was Lynn's lawyer Dermot Dann. Makes more sense as they are trying to diminish and degrade him in the eyes of the jury.

Jurors in the trial of accused murderer Greg Lynn were warned the details would not be for the faint of heart

Forensic specialists and a frail widow give evidence in the trial of Greg Lynn, accused of murdering Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Eaglette01]

My heart goes out to widow Robyn Hill - the long suffering wife of an adulterer.

"Being the last to know is such a betrayal"
"Being lied to is the ultimate insult"

IMO we are now all being lied to by GL - consummate liar with his fantasy story of two (2) accidental deaths.
The jury and judge will be all over this.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

My heart goes out to widow Robyn Hill - the long suffering wife of an adulterer.

"Being the last to know is such a betrayal"
"Being lied to is the ultimate insult"

IMO we are now all being lied to by GL - consummate liar with his fantasy story of two (2) accidental deaths.
The jury and judge will be all over this.

It's hardly a unique situation but it's humiliating to have it plastered all over the papers and internet. No doubt it would have continued until he came clean or some other event brought it out.

 

[Eaglette01]

It's hardly a unique situation but it's humiliating to have it plastered all over the papers and internet. No doubt it would have continued until he came clean or some other event brought it out.

RH did promise to end the affair with the "cousin" 2 decades ago - to Robyn and his children, but he continued with it. I just feel for the widow in this messy murder.

I wish her well.

 

[Kurve]

I’m surprised no one heard the gun shots. 1 km is not that far away on dead quiet night.

He's admitted there were three shots, I figured he said that just in case someone heard them and he doesn't know what the police have. There will be some truths in his story, so there probably was three shots.

 

[champagnegirl]

Regardless

Did you do your research before you commented? . Either Irregardless or Regardless is correct. Personal choice. Both have been in use throughout time and appear in various respected Dictionaries.

 

[Underarrest_]

I’d hazard a guess that some anxiety did spill over into his private life, as allegedly the police have recordings of him talking to himself on multiple occasions, and presumably about the deaths. Also that they arrested him when they did as they apparently were worried he might take his own life. Wasn’t there an argument with his wife on that morning (of his arrest), before he left home? So I don’t think he did quite manage to entirely keep himself together.

I think he could also argue that yes he panicked initially, but once he’d set the wheels in motion there was no turning back? Maybe there was no single point along the way, that he thought he could go to the police and even remotely be believed? And so he carried on... I dunno, I’m playing devils advocate here, I don’t believe the half of what he’s claiming, but just throwing in some food for thought.

It’s a good point. (Putting the dumping, burning of the bodies aside,) most people still aren’t going to accept his version of what happened at the camp site.

 

[Sir_Loin]

It’s a good point. (Putting the dumping, burning of the bodies aside,) most people still aren’t going to accept his version of what happened at the camp site.

Because it’s not a believable accounting of events. IMHO it’s a self serving account of what happened and all of his post offence behaviour explains it.

He’ll never tell the truth. Lying sack of shite IMHO.

 

[Kurve]

Because it’s not a believable accounting of events. IMHO it’s a self serving account of what happened and all of his post offence behaviour explains it.

He’ll never tell the truth. Lying sack of shite IMHO.

I just hope he thinks he's good enough to get through a cross examination unscathed and he takes the stand. He's been described as narcissistic, highly intelligent and with an eye for detail, so he might.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I just hope he thinks he's good enough to get through a cross examination unscathed and he takes the stand. He's been described as narcissistic, highly intelligent and with an eye for detail, so he might.

Is he taking the stand? Can’t see it happening has a persecution complex by the looks of it IMHO

 

[Kurve]

Is he taking the stand?

His lawyer would probably tell him not to. imo.

 

[Underarrest_]

Because it’s not a believable accounting of events. IMHO it’s a self serving account of what happened and all of his post offence behaviour explains it.

He’ll never tell the truth. Lying sack of shite IMHO.

Definitely an unbelievable story.

 

[Badd0g]

More questions for the hunter-types...
Something that has been really nagging at me is the 3 alleged shots. I've already expressed that my opinion is GL needed to explain away 3 shots in case they were heard and I am even more sure of that now after considering what it would have taken to get to the point of having (at least) 3 live rounds available for shooting.

I am gun naïve, but understand that semi-automatic guns are illegal and therefore, GLs shotgun would (should) have been one that had a manual loading mechanism? If that is indeed the case, in order for what Lynn says happened to have occurred:

• RH (someone unused to guns) was able to load a magazine, chamber a round, switch the safety off - shoot warning shot
• RH then manages to eject the spent shell and chamber another round - wrestles with GL over gun and CC gets shot.
• RH lets go of the gun to go to CC and somehow the spent shell is ejected and another chambered, thus that GL had to shoot the gun into the air again to "make it safe". By his own admission, he is the only one to have touched the gun after CC was shot - why would he chamber another shell after gaining control of the gun?

Just another part of his story that does not add up. IMO

 

[GrayRanga]

More questions for the hunter-types...
Something that has been really nagging at me is the 3 alleged shots. I've already expressed that my opinion is GL needed to explain away 3 shots in case they were heard and I am even more sure of that now after considering what it would have taken to get to the point of having (at least) 3 live rounds available for shooting.

I am gun naïve, but understand that semi-automatic guns are illegal and therefore, GLs shotgun would (should) have been one that had a manual loading mechanism? If that is indeed the case, in order for what Lynn says happened to have occurred:

• RH (someone unused to guns) was able to load a magazine, chamber a round, switch the safety off - shoot warning shot
• RH then manages to eject the spent shell and chamber another round - wrestles with GL over gun and CC gets shot.
• RH lets go of the gun to go to CC and somehow the spent shell is ejected and another chambered, thus that GL had to shoot the gun into the air again to "make it safe". By his own admission, he is the only one to have touched the gun after CC was shot - why would he chamber another shell after gaining control of the gun?

Just another part of his story that does not add up. IMO

I will leave it to the shooters to answer in more detail, but my understanding is that with the right Firearm licence, you can own a semi auto firearm.

You can shoot deer up in a deer hunting area up to half an hour after sunset, which would mean on that day. 8:00 pm

A gunshot or two about 7:00 pm could be expected in the valley and may have not be memorable, especially if you saw a hunter wandering about earlier in the day.

Fire off a few shots about 10:00 pm would fit in the narrative he created for his ROI, or fit into a another narrative he was forming in his mind when he burnt the tent and took the bodies away

 

[Sir_Loin]

I will leave it to the shooters to answer in more detail, but my understanding is that with the right Firearm licence, you can own a semi auto firearm.

You can shoot deer up in a deer hunting area up to half an hour after sunset, which would mean on that day. 8:00 pm

A gunshot or two about 7:00 pm could be expected in the valley and may have not be memorable, especially if you saw a hunter wandering about earlier in the day.

Fire off a few shots about 10:00 pm would fit in the narrative he created for his ROI, or fit into a another narrative he was forming in his mind when he burnt the tent and took the bodies away

Have to be c or d licensed and I don’t see how or why he would have been granted one unless some loophole for being a clay target shooter or the 1996 Rule. Which to be honest I didn’t know about because I’ve only been A/B licenced.

As Alberto mentioned I’ve never seen anyone shoot deer with a shotgun. But maybe things have changed it’s been a while since I’ve hunted deer. Only time I’ve seen them used in hunting are goats and pigs and even then it’s been either lever action or straight pull. I’ve never come across professional hunters or pest controllers or farmers who have a reason for c/d firearms.

 

[Badd0g]

Have to be c or d licensed and I don’t see how or why he would have been granted one unless some loophole for being a clay target shooter or the 1996 Rule. Which to be honest I didn’t know about because I’ve only been A/B licenced.

As Alberto mentioned I’ve never seen anyone shoot deer with a shotgun. But maybe things have changed it’s been a while since I’ve hunted deer. Only time I’ve seen them used in hunting are goats and pigs and even then it’s been either lever action or straight pull. I’ve never come across professional hunters or pest controllers or farmers who have a reason for c/d firearms.

Thanks, that's what I have been able to gather from researching gun laws and types of shotguns. So, does that mean, as I thought, that the shells would have to be loaded into the chamber with a manual action? How easy would that be for someone unfamiliar with guns?

I'm visualising something like this...https://www.facebook.com/barathrumgunsofficial/videos/sp-12-test-shooting/903507849818002/

 

[Sir_Loin]

Thanks, that's what I have been able to gather from researching gun laws and types of shotguns. So, does that mean, as I thought, that the shells would have to be loaded into the chamber with a manual action? How easy would that be for someone unfamiliar with guns?

I'm visualising something like this...https://www.facebook.com/barathrumgunsofficial/videos/sp-12-test-shooting/903507849818002/

To be honest it’s not that hard but you definitely need some familiarity. It’s why I think GLs story is total bullshit IMHO.

I can’t see how or why GL would have a loaded firearm in his car. It’s just nonsense. For RH to have taken a firearm and a magazine he’d need to know that a magazine was full, inserted it, cycled it and taken the safety off.

TBH I’m not sure what shotgun GL had that it had an external magazine. They exist I just haven’t come across them - every shotgun I’ve seen and used has been breach loaded or internal magazine. And never have I seen them used for deer.

 

[Badd0g]

To be honest it’s not that hard but you definitely need some familiarity. It’s why I think GLs story is total bullshit IMHO.

I can’t see how or why GL would have a loaded firearm in his car. It’s just nonsense. For RH to have taken a firearm and a magazine he’d need to know that a magazine was full, inserted it, cycled it and taken the safety off.

TBH I’m not sure what shotgun GL had that it had an external magazine. They exist I just haven’t come across them - every shotgun I’ve seen and used has been breach loaded or internal magazine. And never have I seen them used for deer.

All I can find is that they allege it was a Barathrum 12 gauge. He also had a Ruger rifle when he was arrested. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01...olice-allegations-against-greg-lynn/101867002
So the theory posited by someone over the weekend thst he had 2 guns is plausible.
If he didn't use the shotgun for deer, then it's unlikely it would be loaded in the car. Which again suggests RH would have had to figure it all out - In the dark. Yeah... Nah.

 

[Sir_Loin]

All I can find is that they allege it was a Barathrum 12 gauge. He also had a Ruger rifle when he was arrested. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-01...olice-allegations-against-greg-lynn/101867002
So the theory posited by someone over the weekend thst he had 2 guns is plausible.
If he didn't use the shotgun for deer, then it's unlikely it would be loaded in the car. Which again suggests RH would have had to figure it all out - In the dark. Yeah... Nah.

Wouldn’t surprise me if he had a ruger they are highly reliable Mauser actions. They are built like a Mack truck.

Never heard of the shotgun brand. Only used Barretta and Pardus but looks like a low cost Turkish brand. Wouldn’t think it was semi auto if that’s the case

 

[Run n Spread]

Is he taking the stand? Can’t see it happening has a persecution complex by the looks of it IMHO

Apparently. He's lawyer alluded to it in opening
Has to imo. Given the actions post event and the evidence forensics available he's version is so unusual he will have to sell it. Give a detailed account where he was how the guns were accessed and exactly what happened and hope it matches with forensics and police brief.

 

[CD Xbow]

....If he didn't use the shotgun for deer, then it's unlikely it would be loaded in the car. Which again suggests RH would have had to figure it all out - In the dark. Yeah... Nah.

He did use the shotgun for deer, unfortunately it was a dear old lady. The story doesn't really hold up to close examination.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

As stated above GLs shotgun was magazine fed and a "straight pull", which relates to the action type, it's a manually cycled bolt which is "straight pulled" to both **** and load/unload - unlike a bolt action that has a up/down motion as well for the cocking.

Anyone familiar with a magazine fed bolt action rifle shouldn't have any issues using this firearm, even in reduced light, and whilst RH was reported as disliking firearms he had owned and used them.

"Lynn told police that he then became aware of noise coming from his car, and saw Hill walking away with one of his guns and magazines, Dann said."

So I interpret this is as meaning that RH took the shotgun and separately held a magazine, which could mean two things
1) GL had a loaded magazine stored separately, which RH was able to find
2) RH removed the magazine, found the ammunition and loaded it himself.

#1 is more likely IMO

 

[Kurve]

As stated above GLs shotgun was magazine fed and a "straight pull", which relates to the action type, it's a manually cycled bolt which is "straight pulled" to both **** and load/unload - unlike a bolt action that has a up/down motion as well for the cocking.

Anyone familiar with a magazine fed bolt action rifle shouldn't have any issues using this firearm, even in reduced light, and whilst RH was reported as disliking firearms he had owned and used them.

"Lynn told police that he then became aware of noise coming from his car, and saw Hill walking away with one of his guns and magazines, Dann said."

So I interpret this is as meaning that RH took the shotgun and separately held a magazine, which could mean two things
1) GL had a loaded magazine stored separately, which RH was able to find
2) RH removed the magazine, found the ammunition and loaded it himself.

#1 is more likely IMO

The magazine would take five shells? So Lynn already spent two and had three left if he discharged the remaining one after he got his gun back off Russell? According to Lynn.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Also in reference to using a shotgun for deer, looks it's not super common as it does limit the effective hunting range to <50m, but inside of 50m it is completely viable and devastatingly effective.

Alao the type of shotgun GL had would be the type you would use.