Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Kurve]

I wonder if this has been mixed up and it was Hill who had two phones, what does Clay need two phones for?

Anyhow, Lynn's phone was off the network for 48 hours.

Telecommunications expert Dr Matthew Sorell told the jury he was asked by police to conduct analysis on data from four phones - belonging to Mr Lynn, Mr Hill and two belonging to Mrs Clay.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-no-identifiable-cause-of-death-for-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/news-story/5cc761857ec0686feafef3ad9f803635

 

[Percel]

18. Drug deal gone wrong
19. GL was hired by RH's wife to kill them
20. CC was accidentally shot in the head from a bullet off the mirror and RH accidentally stabbed himself to death
21. Radio aerial got caught around GL's trigger finger
22. Chemicals from weeds prayers made GL delusional

24. Rusty inadvertently brushed Lynnsanity on the hip with his viagra dominated sausage. Gregor did not like this.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I wonder if this has been mixed up and it was Hill who had two phones, what does Clay need two phones for?

Anyhow, Lynn's phone was off the network for 48 hours.

Telecommunications expert Dr Matthew Sorell told the jury he was asked by police to conduct analysis on data from four phones - belonging to Mr Lynn, Mr Hill and two belonging to Mrs Clay.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-no-identifiable-cause-of-death-for-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/news-story/5cc761857ec0686feafef3ad9f803635

Maybe CC had a phone in her name for RH’s use?

 

[Kurve]

Maybe CC had a phone in her name for RH’s use?

That makes sense.

I wonder if he found the phone that was in the console and decided to leave it there for some reason.

It's real strange he had his own phone completely shut down for 48 hours but somehow, he couldn't completely disable Hills.

 

[highcountry]

The crown has argued his actions should be seen as an “implied admission” of guilt, while his barrister, Dermot Dann KC, said Mr Lynn made “terrible choices” fearing he would be wrongly blamed.

Implied Admission seems to be central to the prosecution case.

It all hangs on this notion.

Jurors of course must follow the law and directions of the judge in deliberations. But on any jury there is always an emotional connection, or otherwise, towards the accused and the victims.

Like it or not, if the jury like a defendant. Or they despise them, that shouldn’t colour their deliberations. But in reality it does.

It is only natural that most on a jury will ask them selves What would I have done? What would I have felt? What would a reasonable person have done?

The defence has a number of hurdles to over come to pass the reasonable person test, even if that is not a burden under law they need to address.

 

[Sir_Loin]

That makes sense.

I wonder if he found the phone that was in the console and decided to leave it there for some reason.

It's real strange he had his own phone completely shut down for 48 hours but somehow, he couldn't completely disable Hills.

Whatever happened it was clearly a mistake. Maybe he didn’t realise there was a third phone. It’s the only logical thing I can think of. It’s what’s sunk him in the end IMO.

 

[MiguelM]

That makes sense.

I wonder if he found the phone that was in the console and decided to leave it there for some reason.

It's real strange he had his own phone completely shut down for 48 hours but somehow, he couldn't completely disable Hills.

Unless he was monitoring incoming calls/messages that popped up.

 

[Pamcake1]

I wonder if this has been mixed up and it was Hill who had two phones, what does Clay need two phones for?

Anyhow, Lynn's phone was off the network for 48 hours.

Telecommunications expert Dr Matthew Sorell told the jury he was asked by police to conduct analysis on data from four phones - belonging to Mr Lynn, Mr Hill and two belonging to Mrs Clay.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-no-identifiable-cause-of-death-for-russell-hill-and-carol-clay/news-story/5cc761857ec0686feafef3ad9f803635

Probably didn't mix it up though.
C would have had the burner for contacting R because otherwise her number is known to the wife.

 

[Kurve]

Unless he was monitoring incoming calls/messages that popped up.

Whatever happened it was clearly a mistake. Maybe he didn’t realise there was a third phone. It’s the only logical thing I can think of. It’s what’s sunk him in the end IMO.

It's like he didn't know it was there?

Wild thoughts here, what if Hill wasn't dead when he was put in the trailer, he had a phone on him that Lynn missed and Hill got it out of his pocket when he was in the back of the trailer, turned it on then dropped it in a corner of the trailer or left it in the sleeping bag?

Lynn missed it because he'd placed two phones, one on him and one in the console?

Yeh this is a bit out there but it's driving me nuts how he could have made this mistake.

 

[Kurve]

The prosecution might come up with some sort of explanation for this phone weirdness.

 

[FranklinBluth]

Does anyone know how he "fragmented" the burnt remains? They look about 2.5cm x 1.5cm or thereabouts, so I think it would have taken a lot of time to turn the bones of two people into "fragments". I'm thinking a hammer but I would have expected the forensic specialist to give this information.

My guess would be stomping with large boots and significant force. Once the bodies had been burnt and dried. Perhaps something that might be mentioned in his police interview?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

...what if Hill wasn't dead when he was put in the trailer...

IMO the trailer is just as important as the gun for forensic info for the prosecution.
And I would have thought the knife would be a vital exhibit for the defence.

 

[Run n Spread]

There are some seriously wild theories now being spouted.
I get truth is stranger than fiction but you've got to look at what is being said.
He admits to being at the scene.
He admits to disposing of the remains
He's even given an alternate explanation

All this stuff about affairs dick.pills pilot training are irrelevant.
What matters is what can be proven
IMO a huge admission today was no discernible cause of death could be determined. Not even the fact CCs skull was all over the place could a reasonable inference made she was shot.
That handed momentum to the defence.

 

[Kurve]

IMO a huge admission today was no discernible cause of death could be determined. Not even the fact CCs skull was all over the place could a reasonable inference made she was shot.
That handed momentum to the defence.

My understanding of the article was that of the bones forensics collected, they could not determine cause of death.

That is aside from a piece of spent lead that contained Clay's DNA, the only explanation being is that it passed through her body, and fragments of her skull located at Bucks Camp.

 

[EagleEyes1]

Pretty risky to claim someone was definitely stabbed and not shot, if they had any kind of forensic evidence that demonstrates a gunshot his entire defence falls apart.

Smartest play is have a level of truth to it that forensic evidence can't disprove.

That’s true. However there’s no forensic evidence he used a knife either. So I think he’s thrown in the knife so he doesn’t look like he’s shot two people. Imagine him taking the stand saying he accidentally shot two people? That would look more ridiculous than what it already looks.

 

[Lady O]

That’s true. However there’s no forensic evidence he used a knife either. So I think he’s thrown in the knife so he doesn’t look like he’s shot two people. Imagine him taking the stand saying he accidentally shot two people? That would look more ridiculous than what it already looks.

Yep, totally unbelievable to say Hill took his gun and during a struggle shot Clay and himself.

Much better to say Hill accidentally shot her then he then pulled a knife and accidentally stabbed himself!

 

[Badd0g]

"Lynn told police that he then became aware of noise coming from his car, and saw Hill walking away with one of his guns and magazines, Dann said."

I had missed this before...so he has admitted to having more than one gun. Perhaps there is some truth to the story of RH taking his gun, but it was the rifle and the only thing he had left to "convince" RH to give it up was the shotgun. I can visualise him approaching, telling RH to give it up, RH says F off and to show him he is serious GL chambers a round and shoots it into the air. RH then wrestles with him and the shotgun when it goes off. I have no doubt there was a struggle over a gun, but the context in which it occurred, the time and where it happened are all up for debate in my mind.

The magazine would take five shells? So Lynn already spent two and had three left if he discharged the remaining one after he got his gun back off Russell? According to Lynn.

There are also 3+1 magazines from what I could see.

If you can't find a trailer used in an alleged murder they are hardly going to find the weapons. They wouldn't have found the bodies unless Lynn told them and they didn't find Lynn for 600 days.

They had him in the July of 2020...so more like 90-120 days

How would you determine whether somebody has been stabbed or shot using a pile of incinerated bone fragments?

Knife markings on bone. Knives rarely go into a chest without hitting at least one rib. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8813839/

I wonder if this has been mixed up and it was Hill who had two phones, what does Clay need two phones for?

Anyhow, Lynn's phone was off the network for 48 hours.

It appears the 48 hours was in reference to the November return trip.

The crown has argued his actions should be seen as an “implied admission” of guilt, while his barrister, Dermot Dann KC, said Mr Lynn made “terrible choices” fearing he would be wrongly blamed.

Implied Admission seems to be central to the prosecution case.

This one definitely uses the term incriminating conduct which we've discussed before. It was suggested there was a noticed most likely filed that it would be relied upon. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05...s-obliterated-greg-lynn-trial-hears/103897738

Whatever happened it was clearly a mistake. Maybe he didn’t realise there was a third phone. It’s the only logical thing I can think of. It’s what’s sunk him in the end IMO.

He must have realised he had them or why else would he admit to having dumped them on his way to Mansfield. It does seem to be a glaringly obvious oversight though. Had it not been for that ping, it's likely he would never have been found.

All MHO

 

[Underarrest_]

My understanding of the article was that of the bones forensics collected, they could not determine cause of death.

That is aside from a piece of spent lead that contained Clay's DNA, the only explanation being is that it passed through her body, and fragments of her skull located at Bucks Camp.

I’m just saying this as an observation. I think anyone who can disregard two human beings in this manner is a special kind of special and I’m not supporting his story but doesn’t the spent lead support GL’s version?

 

[FrankGrimes]

That’s true. However there’s no forensic evidence he used a knife either. So I think he’s thrown in the knife so he doesn’t look like he’s shot two people. Imagine him taking the stand saying he accidentally shot two people? That would look more ridiculous than what it already looks.

Almost as ridiculous as somebody dying from falling on a knife during a scuffle!

 

[Kurve]

I’m just saying this as an observation. I think anyone who can disregard two human beings in this manner is a special kind of special and I’m not supporting his story but doesn’t the spent lead support GL’s version?

Yes. I don't think it's necessary to dispute everything Lynn has said and I think the evidence supports Clay as being shot. It's the circumstances in how she was shot is in dispute.

I'm taking an objective view here, not supporting Lynn's version of events if I do think it makes more sense that he probably did stab Hill.

The prosecution's case is that there was an argument with Hill and that Hill died before Clay, that Clay was killed because she was a witness. So, in some respects the prosecution is also taking elements of Lynn's admissions in to account.

There's no point in disputing how Lynn killed Hill because they can't prove it. It will simply be a massive distraction that may backfire in baffling the jury.

I don't think the jury's going to buy it that Lynn, after a lifetime of being Captain Safety First, simply went nuts and decided to shoot two elderly campers.

 

[EagleEyes1]

The crown has argued his actions should be seen as an “implied admission” of guilt, while his barrister, Dermot Dann KC, said Mr Lynn made “terrible choices” fearing he would be wrongly blamed.

Implied Admission seems to be central to the prosecution case.

It all hangs on this notion.

Jurors of course must follow the law and directions of the judge in deliberations. But on any jury there is always an emotional connection, or otherwise, towards the accused and the victims.

Like it or not, if the jury like a defendant. Or they despise them, that shouldn’t colour their deliberations. But in reality it does.

It is only natural that most on a jury will ask them selves What would I have done? What would I have felt? What would a reasonable person have done?

The defence has a number of hurdles to over come to pass the reasonable person test, even if that is not a burden under law they need to address.

Can’t see any reasonable person doing what Lynn did in the course of any accident. His story if it were true, would have checked out if he notified the authorities right away.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

It doesn't make any difference because it didn't happen, but how come GL was making so much noise I think it was when he was doing his 4 point turn at the locked gate that someone who heard him from their tent didn't wander over to see if he wanted a hand and happened to glance into his trailer.
I wonder how that would have affected GL's version of events.

 

[Kurve]

It appears the 48 hours was in reference to the November return trip.

Was there anything about Lynn's phone activity after he left Bucks Camp? I assumed he didn't connect to the network at all or they'd have had his phone tracking next to Hill's?

 

[Badd0g]

Was there anything about Lynn's phone activity after he left Bucks Camp? I assumed he didn't connect to the network at all or they'd have had his phone tracking next to Hill's?

In that article you linked it just stated that records showed he had been gone from his CS home for 6 days.

 

[Sir_Loin]

He must have realised he had them or why else would he admit to having dumped them on his way to Mansfield. It does seem to be a glaringly obvious oversight though. Had it not been for that ping, it's likely he would never have been found.

All MHO

What did he admit to dumping on the way to Mansfield?