Worrying Signs for the Carlton Football Club.

[Bartel#]

I have not created this thread to pay out Carlton, and read before moving to Bay 13.

If I were a Carlton supporter I would be demanding anwsers from the club. Last year was meant to be the time this club arrived (we are coming).

With the draft picks and players this club has had I cannot believe they are in the position. They simply do not play the kind of football which will win finals football.

They rely way to much on Judd whom is entering into his latter years. Trading Fev was a big mistake. Let me tell you. If Carlton supporters think they will win a premiership with Ohailpin, betts and yarran kicking the majority of their goals they are deluded.

The on ball brigade is below average. Murphy has shown geat signs but has not lived up to the expectation.

Gibbs is soft.

Questions need to be asked of this organisation. They are in just as much trouble as Essendon are.

 

[Thommo 42]

Their gameplan is worse than Essendon's, they just have a better list.

Boom or bust style when everyone runs one way looks great when it works, but it won't wi you games of footy consistently.

 

[Duffman95]

Their gameplan is worse than Essendon's, they just have a better list.

What gameplan?

Trading for Warnock at the time seemed like a curious decision (given our relative developing strength in the ruck compared to other areas of the ground - Kreuzer pick 1, Hampson around pick 20 etc), but now we have the laughable situation of having a rotating ruck playing full forward. Of course that isn't are only problem, but it's the sort of list management decision that has been repeated each year which will come back to haunt us.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think they may have seduced us a bit with some work early in the season

They have a young list and are developing so cant right them off yet. There are still major problems with their list.

Perhaps the other issue is they have been right down for nearly a decade and have lost their way as an organisation

They are no longer a power in the competiion and have got v use to non achievement

Kernahan/Ratten as a combo still has an amateur feel about it in a very professional age

Carlton as a club are followers these days not leaders

 

[theyellowsash]

soft. thats their problem. they have far too many flankers, downhill skiers and hit/miss players.

 

[R1KSTA]

do worry, ive been demanding answers for the past couple of weeks!!
our game style is pityful and needs to be changed!
grigg does not deserve to be in out side, his lack of knowing where his man is, is just pathetic!
yarran needs to understand that team has no I in it!!
murphy needs to improve big time.
we need to offload o'hAlphin to somewhere, as he is just a load of crap. I cringe everytime he goes for the ball!
It's a wonder Judd doesnt want to leave the pathetic club!!

and i agree with you Bartel# , getting rid of FEV was no doubt the biggest mistake in the CFC history!!!

and bookmark it, we will miss the finals, i can just feel it....

there is my 2cents

 

[gaelictiogar]

Honestly I would be very disappointed with them if I was a fan. They are almost unarguably the flakiest team in the competition. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them drop out of finals this year and frankly that is unacceptable at their stage.

The fact that fewer than 32,000 turned up to watch Carlton while in the top 8 against The Swans who always bring a support indicates that a percentage of their fanbase simply don't believe in this team. Turnout at their games recently have been poor and indicates a feeling that nothing is happening there.

 

[rose jam]

None of their midfielders run both ways - Judd is the biggest criminal with this. So when you apply pressure on them they get scored against and they crumble.
They need to dominate clearances or they're mud

 

[The Big League]

Ratten should be coaching a school boy league not an AFL team.

 

[R1KSTA]

Ratten should be coaching a school boy league not an AFL team.

still then he wouldn't be able to coach them to the finals!!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

None of their midfielders run both ways - Judd is the biggest criminal with this.

It's amazing how many people don't realise this.

 

[LeftNut]

I have not created this thread to pay out Carlton, and read before moving to Bay 13.

If I were a Carlton supporter I would be demanding anwsers from the club. Last year was meant to be the time this club arrived (we are coming).

With the draft picks and players this club has had I cannot believe they are in the position. They simply do not play the kind of football which will win finals football.

They rely way to much on Judd whom is entering into his latter years. Trading Fev was a big mistake. Let me tell you. If Carlton supporters think they will win a premiership with Ohailpin, betts and yarran kicking the majority of their goals they are deluded.

The on ball brigade is below average. Murphy has shown geat signs but has not lived up to the expectation.

Gibbs is soft.

Questions need to be asked of this organisation. They are in just as much trouble as Essendon are.

I agree with alot you have said, but I dont think trading Fev is our problem, before this round Carlton were 4th in the league for goals kicked.
Our major problem is lack of a consistent game plan and leadership, Judd, isnt a true leader of men, nor is Ratten!

 

[LeftNut]

None of their midfielders run both ways - Judd is the biggest criminal with this. So when you apply pressure on them they get scored against and they crumble.
They need to dominate clearances or they're mud

Yet hes our leading tackler!

 

[KennyHunter9]

Yawn.

Everyone, including respected commentators, and even some BF hacks picked Carlton to have a 'rebuilding year" after Fevola's departure.

The fact that the club so exceeded expectations earlier in the year means that this has been forgotten.

We've had a few bad losses lately, but things can turn very quickly in football. Just go and check out all the bleating on the Adelaide board a few months ago.

Thank god most of you people have nothing whatsoever to do with running football clubs or coaches would be sacked every month and half the list would be traded each year.

 

[KennyHunter9]

do worry, ive been demanding answers for the past couple of weeks!!
our game style is pityful and needs to be changed!
grigg does not deserve to be in out side, his lack of knowing where his man is, is just pathetic!
yarran needs to understand that team has no I in it!!
murphy needs to improve big time.
we need to offload o'hAlphin to somewhere, as he is just a load of crap. I cringe everytime he goes for the ball!
It's a wonder Judd doesnt want to leave the pathetic club!!

and i agree with you Bartel# , getting rid of FEV was no doubt the biggest mistake in the CFC history!!!

and bookmark it, we will miss the finals, i can just feel it....

there is my 2cents

Perhaps you could join Brisbane?

Now they seem to be a club run with the kind of cool-head and keenness for trading that you have.

 

[markjjj]

I have not created this thread to pay out Carlton, and read before moving to Bay 13.

If I were a Carlton supporter I would be demanding anwsers from the club. Last year was meant to be the time this club arrived (we are coming).

With the draft picks and players this club has had I cannot believe they are in the position. They simply do not play the kind of football which will win finals football.

They rely way to much on Judd whom is entering into his latter years. Trading Fev was a big mistake. Let me tell you. If Carlton supporters think they will win a premiership with Ohailpin, betts and yarran kicking the majority of their goals they are deluded.

The on ball brigade is below average. Murphy has shown geat signs but has not lived up to the expectation.

Gibbs is soft.

Questions need to be asked of this organisation. They are in just as much trouble as Essendon are.

Unfortunately i agree with you....except for the Fev bit.

 

[pacemaker]

Trading Kennedy away was the best move ever .... from a WCE point of view.

 

[Zeke]

Yet hes our leading tackler!

No he's not, Simpson is.

In fact, you don't have single a player in the leagues top 25 at this stage of the season.

We have three: Ball (94), Pendlebury (86) & Swan (78).

 

[LeftNut]

No he's not, Simpson is.

In fact, you don't have single a player in the leagues top 25 at this stage of the season.

We have three: Ball (94), Pendlebury (86) & Swan (78).

I do apologise, Simpson has more tackles, 4 more, Judd's averages more tackles cos he missed the 1st 3 games.

 

[serenityNow]

Their gameplan is worse than Essendon's, they just have a better list.

Boom or bust style when everyone runs one way looks great when it works, but it won't wi you games of footy consistently.

We have a game plan ????

 

[serenityNow]

Honestly I would be very disappointed with them if I was a fan. They are almost unarguably the flakiest team in the competition. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them drop out of finals this year and frankly that is unacceptable at their stage.

The fact that fewer than 32,000 turned up to watch Carlton while in the top 8 against The Swans who always bring a support indicates that a percentage of their fanbase simply don't believe in this team. Turnout at their games recently have been poor and indicates a feeling that nothing is happening there.

A heap walked out at 3/4 time last week, was shocked how many were leaving. I was outside having a dart with a mate, and turned to him and jokingly said "its 3/4 time yeah". poor form by those that left

Crowds are well down for us this year, and the mumblings and chat you here at games is that the vast majority think we are going backwards, and that Ratten is not the right man for the job.

 

[Chris who]

None of their midfielders run both ways - Judd is the biggest criminal with this. So when you apply pressure on them they get scored against and they crumble.
They need to dominate clearances or they're mud

He had 2 players dedicated to blocking and defending for him at the eags, I dare say he may have been carried be the eags not the other way,. Granted he is still a great player, its just that he is being eposed more than ever nowadays

 

[maryjames]

Wheres there talls?? Recruited to many small forward types..

 

[db swannie]

If Fev goes back to Melb next year I hope he ends up at Carlton.

 

[btdg]

I have not created this thread to pay out Carlton, and read before moving to Bay 13.

If I were a Carlton supporter I would be demanding anwsers from the club. Last year was meant to be the time this club arrived (we are coming).

With the draft picks and players this club has had I cannot believe they are in the position. They simply do not play the kind of football which will win finals football.

They rely way to much on Judd whom is entering into his latter years. Trading Fev was a big mistake. Let me tell you. If Carlton supporters think they will win a premiership with Ohailpin, betts and yarran kicking the majority of their goals they are deluded.

The on ball brigade is below average. Murphy has shown geat signs but has not lived up to the expectation.

Gibbs is soft.

Questions need to be asked of this organisation. They are in just as much trouble as Essendon are.

There are some incredibly worrying signs for Carlton, but they've been around for a while. Unfortunately, you miss them all, having possibly never watched Carlton, instead relying on a whole list of Bay 13 nonsense. Consider:

- There seems to be some general view that Carlton has been gifted a whole stack of quality players because of tanking or some such. What is ignored is (a) the horrendous position Carlton were in prior to 2002, (b) the draft sanctions that kept us out of the draft from 02-04. As a result, our list is badly flawed.The draft picks we have had? Here are the ages of Carlton listed players drafted by the club in the top 20: Murphy (22). Gibbs (21). Kreuzer (21, injured). Walker (23). Russell (23). Hampson (22). Grigg (22). Yarran (19). Lucas (19). AFL players peak between the ages of 23 and 28. Only Walker and Russell have hit that area so far. Our high draft picks simply aren't ready to carry a top level team every week yet.
In terms of other high quality players, Carlton have... Judd? We traded (ie, gave up a fair bit) to get Judd, traded to get Scotland and McLean. Other than that, the mature (age 23+) players in our team are rookie-listers (Thornton, Carazzo, Jamison, O'Hailpin) or low draft picks (Houlihan, Simpson, Armfield, Fisher). Exception is Waite (F/S). In other words, Carlton really only has one A-grade talent in their prime (Judd). The rest of our senior players are b-graders at best. I certainly don't know who the 'draft picks and players CArlton have had' are that you refer to, anyway.

- Judd is not entering his latter years. He's 26 years old. He came second in the Brownlow last year, has won 2 straight club best and fairests, and two straight All-Australian. He will play at a high level for at least another 5 years.

- I don't think anyone thinks Carlton will win a premiership with O'Hailpin, Betts and Yarran kicking the majority of their goals. I don't think Carlton are within miles of a premiership right now, and most would agree that a finals berth would be a good outcome for the club, given our relative youth.

- Carlton's on-ball brigade are playing poorly at the moment. Murphy was very good last year, but missed the preseason this year and is struggling a bit with fitness. Otherwise, we are still heavily dependent on our older crew (Simpson, Scotland, Carazzo) - the same midfield that led us to 3 straight wooden spoons. We rely heavily on Judd and Murphy to provide class at the moment, and are missing Brock Mclean (or what we thought he would bring to us). We've also been playing Robinson, Gibbs, Grigg, Joseph and co in the middle, when they are clearly not developed enough physically to do so. And we're playing ruckmen who aren't ready yet as well (with Kreuzer, Jacobs and Hampson having a whopping average age of 21).

- The argument that Gibbs is soft is just a troll.

- Trading Fevola is a divisive issue. But he forced our hand through continual poor behaviour. You grow up and move on after something like that. Not ideal, but no different to our 2010 performance than the knee injuries to Kreuzer/Waite/Bower.

Are we in trouble? Depends what you mean by trouble. We have some obvious flaws on our list, notably a lack of tall forwards, and not enough quality midfielders in their primes. We have a poor quality coaching setup, and our players don't seem to be particularly motivated at the moment. Its also fair to say that a few players haven't progressed as much as might have been hoped under Ratten, and that our skills at the moment are poor (whether that is because of preparation, confidence, or individual skill levels remains to be seen). We might miss the finals this year, despite starting 7-4 (although we'll probably still finish 7th-10th).

On the other hand, we have:
- A host of high quality young midfielders who are about to enter their primes (this year and next), before giving us 4-5 years together as a core group. (Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Mclean as the core, Yarran, Betts, Lucas, Robinson as supplementaries).
- A young, solid backline that was performing well prior to injury worries, and that will also stay together for 5-7 years (Walker, Russell, Jamison, Bower, Joseph, Armfield).
- 4 decent young ruckmen - enough to cover injuries and serve as a bit of trade bait.

Throw in a few top-up pieces, and that is enough to set us up for a decade. We'll almost certainly fall away either this year, or in the next two, as the core group at the moment (Simpson, Waite, Thornton, Carazzo, Scotland, Houlihan) start to get old and the new guys take a while to replace them. We might even be seeing that right now. But we're probably still 2 years away from really starting to peak, and that is plenty of time to fix the deficiencies.