Worst Recruiting Decision.

[The Crows Truth]

We look back and know that now - and as a result it is counted as one of the all time great lopsided trades - but at the time there was absolutely nothing wrong with Freo's motives.

dyertribe

you make some good points. can i ask how old you were when groom came to the crows at the end of 1991? and how many of his games did you see live at footy park?

 

[The Crows Truth]

by your so called logic, matthew kelly was a dud too

was he? Matthew Kelly played less AFL games, was he dud too. btw google won't help you.



now that's an non issue.

crow mos, you are failing to grasp the basic premise in our debate. Let me summarise simply again for your benefit.

crow mos calls groom a SUPER KPP in an earlier post in this thread

the crows truth points out that groom had potential but was never a SUPER KPP. I never called him a dud. re-read my posts. groom played 24 games in 7 yrs and averaged 2 marks per game .no doubt injuries played a big part. even less doubt that groom never obtained super KPP status in the afl

now i am bored (as i am sure others are) with the circular and diversionary tactics once again employed so i am outta here on this discussion. feel free to have the last word if that makes you feel good

 

[Crow-mo]

crow mos, you are failing to grasp the basic premise in our debate. Let me summarise simply again for your benefit.

crow mos calls groom a SUPER KPP in an earlier post in this thread

the crows truth points out that groom had potential but was never a SUPER KPP. I never called him a dud. re-read my posts. groom played 24 games in 7 yrs and averaged 2 marks per game .no doubt injuries played a big part. even less doubt that groom never obtained super KPP status in the afl

now i am bored (as i am sure others are) with the circular and diversionary tactics once again employed so i am outta here on this discussion. feel free to have the last word if that makes you feel good

your inability to form a coherent argument or understand the most basic of analysis is, was, and remains very boring.

seek attention elsewhere.

 

[Crow-mo]

To be fair, Crow-Mo's base point has nothing to do with what subsequently happened (a fact VC has touched upon).

It's the issue of the perpetual mythology that has Freo trading a can't miss superstar for a talentless stiff.

At the time McLeod was an inconsistent but somewhat mercurial young small forward who had been nothing more than a bit-part player in Port's 1994 SANFL flag. Groom meanwhile was a 21 year old key forward who had been in the AFL system for 2 years and had shown a fair bit when not on the treatment table. It was widely considered he was on the cusp of a breakout year as an excellent key forward, albeit amongst plenty of competition.

• Modra was still the main man.
• There were still high hopes for Matthew Robran coming back after his broken leg.
• The 21 year old hype-saturated Brett Chalmers was entering his second year and it was thought would be much better with another preseason under his belt.
• Jason McCartney had just been recruited as one-part enforcer, two-parts target man.
• A young bloke named Sean Wellman was also operating as a swingman.

Bottom line, the KPF cupboard at West Lakes was full as a goog.

Meanwhile Freo had stacks and stacks of mosquitos. On the flipside their tall stocks consisted of precisely Peter Mann and Kingsley Hunter. Therefore trading some surplus in McLeod for the rare potential of Groom made perfect sense for the Dockers both list and structure-wise.

Now history shows that Groom did OK in his time in Perth despite his ongoing injury nightmares before being ontraded to Pagan's Roos (a measure of how highly his potential was rated despite his failing body), whereas McLeod became an all-time great.

We look back and know that now - and as a result it is counted as one of the all time great lopsided trades - but at the time there was absolutely nothing wrong with Freo's motives.

precisely! well articulated.

though you undersell McLeod a little, he did play a bit part in the SANFL finals but he was the hottest thing on everyone's tongues at the time. but the basic point remains the same.

 

[Crow-mo]

And thats a VERY fair analysis!

History will also say that Ryan Fitzgerald was a dud but people forget just how highly he was rated as a football talent and if not for all the injuries he would have had one hell of an AFL career. His early games with the Swans suggested he was on his way to become one of the best forwards in the competition. Then the injuries kicked in and he was eventually off the list!

Similarly with Groom, history will say we made out as bandits out of that trade and numbers would suggest that Groom was a dud but reality at the time was something very different.

again, well said.

 

[Asgardian]

I had that very argument with a port fan a few weeks back who really didn't like it when I said by his logic Bowen Lockwood was a complete dud as well then.

Bowen did play 50 games, not many duds play that many (there are exceptions of course)

Imagine 10, 20, 50 years from now, they'll hook the kids up to a computer and it'll say if they are likely to have serious injuries, likely to be great, hell, likely to be a nutcase. No more dopey drafting selections to talk endlessly about.

God, how boring

 

[Mego Red]

His first AFL coach says he was such a good prospect, he wouldn't have traded him for the best undrafted prospect in the country in McLeod.
Freo gave up McLeod AND a draft pick for him.

some BF numpty says he was a dud quoting post injury stats... boring.

C'mon - you are being ridiculous. Everyone is forgetting one key fact that was discussed at the time - that Freo was concerned that they couldn't sign McLeod and thought there was a chance he'd just go back up North. Groom was what they could get - a solid prospect who had been ill and injured, but NO WHERE near the talent of McLeod. McLeod was the clear number one draft pick going into that year and had a sensational SANFL finals series, while Groom hadn't strung together three games in two years. That was obvious at the time, hence our rejoicing, and you were one of the folks over the moon.

Now, I'm all for not just dismissing Chris Groom as a complete scrub (he was a great second tier talent, based on potential) but let's not boomerang round to the other direction and start completely over-rating him. Every time you discuss him, he is becoming fonder in your memory, like some high school sweetheart that you remember as being much hotter than she actually was.

I do not believe that anyone would have ever said that they would not have traded Chris Groom for Andrew McLeod. I could imagine them saying they would rather have traded someone ELSE for McLeod, but that is a much different thing. Unless you can pull a Cornes quote, I'm not going to believe it.

And yes, I AM old enough to remember it, old enough to have seen the trade and to have seen them both when they were 18.

And, BTW - you're acting like a bit of a jacka$$ on this thread, Crow-mo. The Crows Truth was making fair points and you were dismissing them with opinion, and barely that - he was creaming you in the debate stakes.

 

[Markthirtytwo]

This is not supposed to be funny, but wasn't the only issue why Freo didn't want Macca in the first place was because Neesham didn't like him with an ear ring?

I also think the comparison between Groom and Fitzy is far far in the real world than just calling Groom a dud. No one though could say for sure he was going to be a super star that Macca turned out to be.

 

[Macca19]

Ive done a little research on this subject as it has interested me the whole Mcleod debate.

Fremantle in the end had no chioce but to trade off Mcleod after he and his father refused to sign an initial poor contract from the Dockers. Fremantle could select two SANFL registered players from the 1993 draft pool and after lots of conjecture from other AFL clubs about Mcleods eligibility (sounds similar to Gibbs, he had signed an underage contract with the Pies in 93 and also played in the Teal Cup for NT in the same year....maybe this is another Pavlich...noone picked him up!), it was found that Mcleod was Freos property to trade off if they wanted.

In the end it actually looked destined to see Mcleod traded to Collingwood, which he was happy to go to as the AFL Magpies offered him a lot of money, but Fremantle refused to trade with Collingwood.

Fremantle had targeted Groom and David Pittman but it ended up being Groom to Fremantle with Mcleod and pick 38 going to Adelaide! This was signed moments before the trade deadline. Robert Shaw also stated he was sad to see Groom go as he was definately a required player and had a contract for 1994.

 

[Macca19]

This is not supposed to be funny, but wasn't the only issue why Freo didn't want Macca in the first place was because Neesham didn't like him with an ear ring?

Maybe, but from what I read it was actually Mcleod that didnt want to sign with Freo, not the other way around.

 

[-VC-]

Maybe, but from what I read it was actually Mcleod that didnt want to sign with Freo, not the other way around.

From a little reading I've done on the issue it seems like McLeod didn't want to sign with them because of a whole bunch of bullshit (including the earring). More or less it sounds like Neesham said, "I don't like that earring" and McLeod said "Get ****ed." Figuratively.