Would you rather be St Kilda or Richmond going forward?

[W. Smithers]

Hardly. In case you forgot, the Tiges are the 2007 spooners, so you'd think they'd start playing young players, retire the oldies, and stop trading away their top draft picks for recycled types e.g. McMahon, Polak, Morton. No wonder the Tiges have been success-less after 28 years. It's just a complete disaster, and to make matters worse they keep repeating the same list mismanagement mistakes. Miller should have been booted 3 years ago. I think the problem is you have very weak people running your Club who don't want to rock the boat.

Carlton would envy to be in Richmonds position.

Because of the gaping holes in Carlton's list, they have had to play draftees before they're ready and they haven't been able to cope. An example being Cain Ackland's selection ahead of Sean Hampson against Brisbane.

Richmond have not had to rush in Cotchin, Putt or Rance. Cotchin was allowed to recover from him achilles problem, whilst Kruezer was already showing wear and tear after round 1 and subsequently missed round 2.

We have young forwards, mids, rucks and backmen in the senior team, with many others pushing hard for selection in Coburg.

Speaking of disasters, Judd was sidestepped by Keplar Bradley couldn't make the distance twice from inside 50 in the last quarter and just doesn't seem to be 'himself'. That groin would be causing more than just Chris Judd some discomfort at the moment particularly in light of the form being shown by Rhys Palmer, Chris Masten, Brad Ebert, Cyril Rioli, Harry Taylor, Cale Morton and David Myers.

Carlton of course passing up the opportunity to have a pairing of Josh Kennedy and any of the above. Has Carlton messed up a 7th straight draft??

 

[Kyusss]

any1 can pick out draft mistakes after thay happen
heres just looking at 1 draft

hey parrot which would u prefer

what u took-
Luke Livingston
Trent Sporn
Simon Wiggins
Callan Beasy
Sean Okeefe

what u could have taken-
Daniel Kerr
Scott Thompson
Amon Buchanan
Corey Jones
Graham Johncock

 

[parrot]

Carlton would envy to be in Richmonds position. ...

lol. Are you serious? Would ANYONE be envious of Richmond. Look, the point isn't Richmonds 28 years of disaster, or the crazy list management stuff-ups by Miller, the issue IS the state of the Tiges list now and in the future, which is what this poll is about. The point is nothing has changed at Tigerland. Still playing old players and still recruiting top-ups, and still employing Miller. You had a chance of a top-10 super draft pick and instead got Polak who is now playing VFL. You could have got Selwood with your low 2nd round pick, and instead got McMahon. You also traded away another low pick for Morton! How about drafting young players and playing them? Ever heard of that concept. What you've been doing at Tigerland for 28 years hasn't been working, perhaps it's time for a change. That's what I'm suggesting. Comparing your list the the Saints who have well and truly stuffed things up over the past 2 years in terms of list management decisions, is pointless. Big changes need to happen at Tigerland, and you need some strong leaders at your Club to make those tough decisions. Otherwise nothing will change.

 

[parrot]

any1 can pick out draft mistake...

Sure, but Miller makes bigger ones, and on a more consistent basis that anyone else in the AFL. He has a terrible track record.

 

[tucker777]

Sure, but Miller makes bigger ones, and on a more consistent basis that anyone else in the AFL. He has a terrible track record.

almost as bad a track record as st kilda in recent years...how many years straight have they been flag favourites? is it 10 nearly? they've followed through there eh

 

[parrot]

almost as bad a track record as st kilda in recent years...how many years straight have they been flag favourites?...

Sorry, but being a "media flag favourite" means ZIPPO. Winning flags requires the complete package, and the Saints only had parts of it. For 1-2 years they did have the necessary list talent, but GT was a truly shocking game-day coach "Mr no Plan B", plus the Club just has no success culture and was celebrating being in the finals, rather than understanding that finals appearances mean nothing. They lost focus. And then they started mucking up their list by trading away players, and loading up on top-ups. And then the nasty infighting between GT and their admin. And then selling up their spiritual home because they couldn't get extra poker machine licenses from the Moorabbin council etc etc. It all fell apart. In reality that Club was a long long way from winning a flag. I wouldn't use them as a role model. It's turned into a disaster.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Sure, but Miller makes bigger ones, and on a more consistent basis that anyone else in the AFL. He has a terrible track record.

Least we got something for Fiora.What did you get for Livingston?Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[W. Smithers]

any1 can pick out draft mistakes after thay happen
heres just looking at 1 draft

hey parrot which would u prefer

what u took-
Luke Livingston
Trent Sporn
Simon Wiggins
Callan Beasy
Sean Okeefe

what u could have taken-
Daniel Kerr
Scott Thompson
Amon Buchanan
Corey Jones
Graham Johncock

Do you know what must be the most embarrasing thing about the above for Carlton fans. Wiggins is in their best 22

 

[Kyusss]

Sure, but Miller makes bigger ones, and on a more consistent basis that anyone else in the AFL. He has a terrible track record.

but our kids are out performing carltons surely even u would admit that we have played the better footy than you guys this year
and the question is stkildas list or richmonds and its overwhelmingly strong richmonds way
surely you just have to admit your anti richmond to a fault and cant see reality

we play less interstate teams in melbourne than carlton
we play more interstate away games
4 times we play geelong or hawthorn to carltons 2
and if we finish higher than carlton you still wont admit to richmond having
an ounce of talent

surely its just your hatred for richmond

look at the poll results
dont be silly

 

[telsor]

Polak is closer to 24yo. He struggled to make Freo's starting 22, and has been dropped from the Tiges lineup. His problems are his poor kicking, poor disposal and poor mobility. Even Richmond supporters don't want him back in your side. And to make things worse Miller traded away a top-10 superdraft pick for him!

He was 22 when we got him, and 24 is still reasonably young for a KPP.

He was 'dropped' due to a virus and will almost certainly be back next week.
On all of those 'problems' he's more average than 'bad', and he's an awesome contested mark. Although he needs to learn to impose himself on a game more.

We traded pick 8 for him and pick 11 ( or was it 13? ), hardly a huge cost, especially as we picked up Reiwoldt with the pick we received, and so far, he's done better that those picks we 'missed'.

Gourdis was a PSD mistake. He's struggling at VFL level, meanwhile Pffeifer is kicking match winning goals at AFL level.

He was regarded as a potential top-20 pick, but slid because while he's a freakish athlete and a great mark, he's yet to prove he can be a footballer. We picked him up with ( effectively ) a 5th or 6th round pick as a 'project' player..If he makes it, he could well be a star, if he doesn't it's a small price to pay.

Trading an early 2nd round pick for McMahon was plain silly.

Yeah, he's already a key part of our team taking over the linkman position from Bowden, but with more run, equal 3rd in disposals, most of them effective...complete waste.

Even the Morton trade was borderline sensible. Can you see the pattern here? Gross list mismanagement.

Pattern? You mean picking up young, quality players who are either very cheap or can meet a need? Yeah, I see it.

The Tiges bottomed out yet again in 2007. You'd think that the penny would finally drop, and the Tiges would stop trading away their draft picks, retire some of the oldies, and start playing a young starting 22. Still hasn't happened. Just amazing.

Wow, when Carlton is near the bottom for what was it, 4 years? it's a well thought out plan, we hit the bottom last year when injuries hit hard, and too much was left to too many kids ( who, according to you, don't get a game ) and it's bottoming out because we're crap. Try to at least pretend you have some consistancy.

 

[yellowblack+brown7]

Sure, but Miller makes bigger ones, and on a more consistent basis that anyone else in the AFL. He has a terrible track record.

and your is any better, starting off with your love child Bryce Squibbs

 

[tucker777]

and your is any better, starting off with your love child Bryce Squibbs

hang wait for it

........................ "oh but he's still young and learning the craft"


there we go

 

[anti.]

in terms of going forward:

West Coast > Richmond + Stkilda

saying that, richmond are in a better position then the saints moving forward.

 

[tucker777]

in terms of going forward:

West Coast > Richmond + Stkilda

saying that, richmond are in a better position then the saints moving forward.

god people are bad at maths
the correct equation is

Judd and Cousins > West Coast
Richmond >St Kilda
Richmond > West Coast
West Coast > St Kilda


here endeth the lesson

 

[TigerGlory]

in terms of going forward:

West Coast > Richmond + Stkilda

saying that, richmond are in a better position then the saints moving forward.

I dont understand that post.

West Coast are starting to bottom out now, while Richmond are on the way up.

Shouldnt it read Richmond > West Coast in terms of going forward?

 

[anti.]

actually i was saying west coast are greater than both tigs and stkilda put together moving forward.

geez, cant even comprehend a simple equation.

 

[TigerGlory]

actually i was saying west coast are greater than both tigs and stkilda put together moving forward.

geez, cant even comprehend a simple equation.

What do you constitute as moving forward?

Tiges are ahead in list development, our younger players are far more developed. While you guys are starting to recover now from such a change in the clubs list.

 

[anti.]

What do you constitute as moving forward?

Tiges are ahead in list development, our younger players are far more developed. While you guys are starting to recover now from such a change in the clubs list.

yes but i could argue that west coast's poor start to the season can be heavily contributed to poor form from senior players.

we still have a list full of premiership players, most of whom were under performing until last week (when everyone clicked).

with a quality batch of young players to top it off, we are set for the future.

dont be surprised to see west coast bounce back up into the top 6 next year.

you have to ask, will richmond actually make the finals this year or just finish 9-11?

while i like the tigs and i think their list is coming along nicely, i rate west coast's because of its final's experience + its quality youth brigade.

but hey, im bias and so are you.

 

[TigerGlory]

yes but i could argue that west coast's poor start to the season can be heavily contributed to poor form from senior players.

we still have a list full of premiership players, most of whom were under performing until last week (when everyone clicked).

with a quality batch of young players to top it off, we are set for the future.

dont be surprised to see west coast bounce back up into the top 6 next year.

you have to ask, will richmond actually make the finals this year or just finish 9-11?

while i like the tigs and i think their list is coming along nicely, i rate west coast's because of its final's experience + its quality youth brigade.

but hey, im bias and so are you.

Not an issue with being bias. As you said so am i.

While i believe having a core group of premiership players around is a good thing, i still think you'll need to wait a few years until your younger players are experienced enough to complement your senior guys. Richmond are starting to develop a core group of 22 year olds that are all starting to blossom at the same time. These guys are allowing blokes like Richo to play on the Wing. They will also complement our senior guys like Simmonds, Brown and Johnson to do less work. (You'll remember in 2005, Browny literally dragged us up the ladder himself)

 

[anti.]

yep, as you said richmond have a wealth of quality 22 year olds or something around that age. but if you look at west coast's best 22 moving forward we have:

B: Selwood(24) - Glass (27) - B.Jones(25)
HB: Waters(22) - Hunter(26) - Schofield(19)
C: Rosa(21) - Stenglein(27) - Embley(26)
HF: LeCras(21) - Kennedy(20) - Butler(22)
F: McKinley(21) - Lynch(25) - ????
R: Cox(26) - Kerr(25) - Priddis(23)
Int: Masten(19) - Ebert(18) - Seaby(24) - Hurn(20)

i didnt include braun/fletcher/wirra because they're either on the way out or retiring soon and wont be part of our next flag tilt.

it's actually a pretty experienced squad, most of those guys have played finals and are hardened. topped off with a few guys in their teens.

at the moment we're fielding a very young team but once a few of those injured players come back im sure lots of the 18/19 year olds will be pushed out of the side.

theres no real glaring weakness in that 22 besides the lack of a quality crumbing forward pocket.

 

[parrot]

in terms of going forward:

West Coast > Richmond + Stkilda
...

Correct. And the reasons are:

1. Weagles didn't trade away their draft picks for recycled players like the Tiges have done

2. Weagles are playing young players, rather than 5 players 30 years oldor older in their starting 22 like the Tiges are doing.

3. Weagles don't have Miller stuffing things up

It's just basic, sensible list management, that the Tiges are incapable of for some reason.

 

[C-Dog]

Richmond have an even older starting 22, with 5 players in their starting 22, 30 years old or older. Apart from Foley, Cotchin, and perhaps Deledio, there's not much quality among the Tiges younger players. They traded away a lot of draft picks for top-ups like McMahon, Polak, Morton etc etc. Also made a mess of many top-20 picks. The Saints list is getting old as well and is going backwards. Both Clubs are also looking to relocate. The Tiges to Craigeburn, and the Saints to Frankston because Moorabbin wouldn't give them the poker machine licenses they wanted. So there are similarities there I guess. So who would you rather? Answer: neither. Both going backwards at this stage.

we also made a pathetic attempt to top up our list by drafting cotchin, i mean he was 17 when we drafted him but its still a last minute effort to re-use players, who are unproven at other clubs and are too old.

 

[parrot]

we also made a pathetic attempt to top up our list by drafting cotchin...

Not talking about Cotchin, I'm talking about your next 2 picks in 2007. And I'm talking about your first pick in 2006 superdraft! All were traded away. Unbelievable. The Tiges would have been much better off using these draft picks to rebuild their list.

 

[C-Dog]

Not talking about Cotchin, I'm talking about your next 2 picks in 2007. And I'm talking about your first pick in 2006 superdraft! All were traded away. Unbelievable. The Tiges would have been much better off using these draft picks to rebuild their list.

yeah i disagree, we merely downgrading our 2006 pick by 5 places and took a punt on polak. Polak went pick 4 in the 'other superdraft' so the talent was there once.

 

[parrot]

.... Polak went pick 4 in the ...

But he's ordinary! I mean, does Miller actually know anything about the players he drafts or trades for other than "they were pick 4 several years ago". Everyone knew the guy couldn't kick, and was slow. That's why he struggled to make Freo's starting 22, and why he's in your VFL team right now. Unbelievable. Just sack Miller, and start moving forward.