YVMDFL Thread - 2012

[ManInWhite]

With so many grounds in such bad condition, what is everyones tips for where finals will be held? Obviously Woori, Gembrook & Healesville will feature heavily, but those 3 grounds can't take all the heat..

Alex and Yea must be in the frame again you'd think?

 

[ManInWhite]

How bad does a ground have to be to have the game called off? Kinglake v Alex was called off Saturday with Alex up by three points and given the win. Who makes the decision? Really does open up a pandoras box.

You sure about? I checked with a colleague who was there and said full games were played. They did start early and must have had limited time-on - apparently it was finished by 4pm.

 

[Jpod17]

There's no doubting that in general the GV grounds are holding up better. But your theory doesn't hold up to a few of our grounds. A week ago Alex was in fantastic nick - no water and we wore runners. About 3 weeks ago I was at Yarra Junction and you could have played cricket there. I heard the guys at Yea on Saturday wore runners too. Others said that Woori was in pretty good nick too. Healesville was perfect about 4 weeks ago too. More a case of our good grounds are great but our bad grounds are really, really bad.

yeah true Alex always holds up well along with other you said but still Mansfield is the worst ground but would still probably be better than the best YV grounds as i said you cant have players getting infections from playin on a ground that is a disgrace hopefully the league sees some sence and holds majority finals at Alex,Yea,Healesville,Woori and Junction

 

[Monniehawk]

yeah true Alex always holds up well along with other you said but still Mansfield is the worst ground but would still probably be better than the best YV grounds as i said you cant have players getting infections from playin on a ground that is a disgrace hopefully the league sees some sence and holds majority finals at Alex,Yea,Healesville,Woori and Junction

Alex, Yea, Woori and Gembrook are standouts, as is Healesville. Pretty much in that order as far as venues are concerned for mine.
Its not only the state of the grounds, but spectator accommodation, parking and hospitality issues need to be considered.
Then, for the GF's, the league has to consider its corporate and admin requirements.
Despite the issue of distance, I really did like Alex and Yea for all of the above reasons.

 

[Stax on the mill]

Not for the last five weeks Ive been told.

Emerald fare no better or worse from the men in white than other teams. No wonder the league have trouble recruiting and retaining umpires when they have to face constant unjustified smears from bozos like yourself.

 

[footysnumberone]

Alex, Yea, Woori and Gembrook are standouts, as is Healesville. Pretty much in that order as far as venues are concerned for mine.
Its not only the state of the grounds, but spectator accommodation, parking and hospitality issues need to be considered.
Then, for the GF's, the league has to consider its corporate and admin requirements.
Despite the issue of distance, I really did like Alex and Yea for all of the above reasons.

Surely the league would have to take into consideration that there's not many clubs or spectators that actually like going to Gembrook? The constant wind can (AND DOES) ruin games.

 

[Taj Mahal]

P

Emerald fare no better or worse from the men in white than other teams. No wonder the league have trouble recruiting and retaining umpires when they have to face constant unjustified smears from bozos like yourself.

The valley has plenty of white maggotts but they are on the wrng side of the fence and on this forum. start recruting miw.

 

[Taj Mahal]

BUT if Mt Ev beat Woori (which they nearly did first time around), and Healesville beat Emerald, then in the final round Healseville beat Mt Ev and Wandin beat Emerald, it'll be Emerald who get relegated. With Emeralds current form, that becomes a real possibility.

In a nutshell though, if Mt Ev and Emerald win any of their next 2, they stay up. Their future is in their own hands and Healseville are the only team reliant on other teams results.

Garions moan-bulk are trying to keep the drama in the relagation and finals race.
after loosing successive games to the bottom sides to give each of them a chance to avoid divvy 2, they beat wanderin' to take 3rd spot and leave the finals door open for upwey and warby.

and, boys, here comes upweeeeeeey.

 

[tika masala]

Here comes upweeeeeeeey

 

[Oldtimer_1934]

You still can not write off Upwey - a powerhouse on their day.

So Monbulk v gembrook - will gembrook rest some, doubt it as its a 3 week break then for them
Upwey v warbuton - who wants fifth - still think Upwey can make it, sorry warby
Wandin v emerald - appears emerald struggling hard at end of a big year
Healesville v mt eve - surely mt eve win
Woori v olinda - see top game, but more merit in resting some perhaps

Anyone care to predict final ladder?

 

[Monniehawk]

It has been an intriguing last couple of seasons.
Over previous years, we had become accustomed to having a couple of dominating sides, some hopeful pretenders and a couple of chopping blocks. It seemed like the natural law.
This has changed recently. While Gembrook and Woori have led the table for the whole season, they have never really looked the impregnable units we have come to expect from our top sides. Last year Monbulk finished well clear but their vulnerability was also shown during the finals, while Upwey limped into 5th place and then blitzed the flag.
Likewise, the lower end of the table has been remarkably competitive this year and every game has actually been a danger game. Mt Evelyn and Healesville have propped up the competition for most of the year, yet they have clocked up some great wins over quality sides. When did a bottom team last have 5 wins with one winnable round to go?
We also had Emerald looking very dangerous for a good part of the start of the season and they have become a real prospect for relegation over the final part of the season. They have a win over the ladder leaders!
Warby, Monbulk, Upwey, Wandin and Olinda have at alternate times looked like finalists and yet were also discussed as possible relegation fodder.

Big games this week with a lot hingeing on the results.
Upwey and Warby will see two good sides fighting for fifth and that benefits a rocky Monbulk who will now be safe regardless of the results.
Wandin and Emerald looks fairly cut-and-dried, but this is now a must win for the Bombers who have surprisingly slipped from finals glamour boys to relegation territory with seven straight losses. They must win to stay in Div 1.
From early in the season everyone was nominating this as the game that would decide who went down between the The Bloods and the Mounters. But Mt Evelyn's dramatic late resurgence has given them some huge wins and they are well and truly safe. Healesville has its destiny in its own hands. They MUST win to stay alive and would expect Wandin to help send the Bombers back to Div 2. Both Healesville and Mt Evelyn have very good form coming into the game, but Mt Evelyn do look stronger, more disciplined and have a home game. Then again, Healesville will have their very lives on the line, so they are well capable of tipping up the cart.
Whatever happens, the relegated side will be the most powerful we have sent back to 2nd Division for a very long time.

 

[sid snot]

It has been an intriguing last couple of seasons.
Over previous years, we had become accustomed to having a couple of dominating sides, some hopeful pretenders and a couple of chopping blocks. It seemed like the natural law.
This has changed recently. While Gembrook and Woori have led the table for the whole season, they have never really looked the impregnable units we have come to expect from our top sides. Last year Monbulk finished well clear but their vulnerability was also shown during the finals, while Upwey limped into 5th place and then blitzed the flag.
Likewise, the lower end of the table has been remarkably competitive this year and every game has actually been a danger game. Mt Evelyn and Healesville have propped up the competition for most of the year, yet they have clocked up some great wins over quality sides. When did a bottom team last have 5 wins with one winnable round to go?
We also had Emerald looking very dangerous for a good part of the start of the season and they have become a real prospect for relegation over the final part of the season. They have a win over the ladder leaders!
Warby, Monbulk, Upwey, Wandin and Olinda have at alternate times looked like finalists and yet were also discussed as possible relegation fodder.

Big games this week with a lot hingeing on the results.
Upwey and Warby will see two good sides fighting for fifth and that benefits a rocky Monbulk who will now be safe regardless of the results.
Wandin and Emerald looks fairly cut-and-dried, but this is now a must win for the Bombers who have surprisingly slipped from finals glamour boys to relegation territory with seven straight losses. They must win to stay in Div 1.
From early in the season everyone was nominating this as the game that would decide who went down between the The Bloods and the Mounters. But Mt Evelyn's dramatic late resurgence has given them some huge wins and they are well and truly safe. Healesville has its destiny in its own hands. They MUST win to stay alive and would expect Wandin to help send the Bombers back to Div 2. Both Healesville and Mt Evelyn have very good form coming into the game, but Mt Evelyn do look stronger, more disciplined and have a home game. Then again, Healesville will have their very lives on the line, so they are well capable of tipping up the cart.
Whatever happens, the relegated side will be the most powerful we have sent back to 2nd Division for a very long time.

if results fall the ofcfnc way and they can win by around 400 points they can sneak into the finals......otherwise going on the way the last 2 years have gone monbulk are now premiership favourites

 

[toxic]

Does the side finishing last automatically get relegated or is their some discretionary power the board have to keep a side in Div 1?

 

[The Finger]

Does the side finishing last automatically get relegated or is their some discretionary power the board have to keep a side in Div 1?

Generally GONE has been a couple of times I can remember that the Div 2 winner has declined to come up. Healesville should put in an appeal in regard to the called off game going on form that has cost them a win. Also with there twos being strong and their facilities they offer far more to First Division.

 

[Monniehawk]

Does the side finishing last automatically get relegated or is their some discretionary power the board have to keep a side in Div 1?

It used to be that the div 2 club had to apply and would be automatically promoted and the bottom side in Div 1 went down. This was amended by the clubs in 2008 to give the Board some limited discretionary power if the Div 2 club did not wish to be promoted.
You can download the latest version of the Constitution (and By Laws, etc.) yourself from the YVMDFL website.

6.0 COMPOSITION OF THE LEAGUE
Rule Six (6) Amendment as agreed at a Special Meeting held in the Delegates Room at the
League Office on Monday 21st July 2008.
6.1 The bottom team at the end of the home & away season in Division One (1) shall be
relegated to Division Two (2).
6.2 The Premier Club of Division Two (2) shall be promoted to Division One (1).
6.2.1 The YVMDFL Board may, under special circumstances, consider a submission in
writing from the Division Two (2) Club Premiers to remain in Division Two (2). This
application must be submitted to the Board no later than 21 days following the
Division Two (2) Grand Final.
6.2.2 In the event of the Board approving a club’s submission to remain in Division Two
(2), the Board may seek expressions of interest from other Division Two (2) clubs to
be promoted to Division One (1).
6.2.3 In the event of no clubs being promoted to Division One (1), the composition of the
YVMDFL divisions will then be structured at the sole discretion of the YVMDFL
Board.
6.3 If the Division One (1) competition has an odd number of teams, the bottom two (2) teams in
Division One (1) clubs shall be relegated to Division Two (2).
6.3.1 In the event that no Division Two (2) club is promoted, only the team finishing on the
bottom of the Division One (1) ladders shall be relegated.

Rules 6.2.3 and 6.3.1 seem to be at odds with one another.
They each refer to the case where no Div 2 club is promoted. 6.2.3 states that the "divisions will then be structured at the sole discretion of the YVMDFL Board", while 6.3.1 appears to conflict by saying that "only the team finishing on the bottom of the Division One (1) ladders shall be relegated."
'Sole discretion' is being qualified by 6.3.1 which implies that the bottom team "shall be relegated".
That doesn't exactly give the Board sole discretion - at least not in who goes down.

 

[Monniehawk]

Generally GONE has been a couple of times I can remember that the Div 2 winner has declined to come up. Healesville should put in an appeal in regard to the called off game going on form that has cost them a win. Also with there twos being strong and their facilities they offer far more to First Division.

What case do they have?
They can appeal all they want. I don't think there is anything that can be done according to the By Laws. Nor with the R10 cancellation in Div 2. And it probably isn't any advantage having the extra 2 points anyway. They are still behind on percentage, so the original two points are actually more than enough. Either way, they need to win on Saturday.
And it is my understanding that both sides agreed to call it off after the Healesville President consulted the League, the umpires and Olinda who all agreed.
The League doesn't appear to have done anything wrong in my reading of the rules.

But, a few other clubs have been interested in that game too! There are concerns of a contrived result and some at Mt Evelyn were not happy - until they kicked clear of the relegation. I guess the Bombers would be looking at it as well, now. If Emerald have a case (don't really think they do) and the League agreed, they could strip the points from both Olinda and Healesville. Healesville still go down.
The only rule that goes near that case is By Law 34, but that seems only to apply to games that have actually started and have then been abandoned.
Games called off prior to the start don't really rate a mention. There appears to be a By Laws loophole that needs to be closed.
Belgrave will definitely come up if they win - and they should.

 

[The Finger]

Belgrave will definitely come up if they win - and they should.

I dont necessarily agree. I believe clubs should show more than one year of sustained success before they are automic inclusions in Div 1. For the good of the club and comp.

 

[Taj Mahal]

Bit of talk going round about Olinda and healsevil.
Anyone no anything?

 

[The Finger]

Bit of talk going round about Olinda and healsevil.
Anyone no anything?

Apperantly the draw was going to be looked at. Id imagine Healesville would be very keen to have the game played but its not possible. Or is it?

 

[Monniehawk]

Apperantly the draw was going to be looked at. Id imagine Healesville would be very keen to have the game played but its not possible. Or is it?

Only if the League determines it is to be played. I can't see that it as a likelihood, though. Apart from no real provision for it, there probably isn't a need.
I've had a bit of a look at the rules and changed my mind a couple of times. After looking at the AFL and VCFL as well as our own rules, it starts to get a bit ugly. Personal opinion is now leaning towards that Healesville might have some sort of a case to answer.
We might have to clean up our own rules, too.

 

[The Finger]

Only if the League determines it is to be played. I can't see that it as a likelihood, though. Apart from no real provision for it, there probably isn't a need.
I've had a bit of a look at the rules and changed my mind a couple of times. After looking at the AFL and VCFL as well as our own rules, it starts to get a bit ugly. Personal opinion is now leaning towards that Healesville might have some sort of a case to answer.
We might have to clean up our own rules, too.

Odd. Out of interest why do you think Healesville might have some sort of case to answer? Remembering this is ALL opinion based of course.

 

[J6shSC]

Didn't emerald finish on the bottom of division 2 in 2010 due to an Alex/Kinglake draw from a game that they never played too? From memory Alex finished half a game clear from the bottom even though they had easily the worst percentage. Would be interesting if it happens again, surely an enquiry by whoever finishes bottom?

 

[The Finger]

Didn't emerald finish on the bottom of division 2 in 2010 due to an Alex/Kinglake draw from a game that they never played too? From memory Alex finished half a game clear from the bottom even though they had easily the worst percentage. Would be interesting if it happens again, surely an enquiry by whoever finishes bottom?

Lucky there is nothing to lose if you finish bottom of Div 2. Just opens a massive pandoras box with games being called off.

 

[TeeS]

Odd. Out of interest why do you think Healesville might have some sort of case to answer? Remembering this is ALL opinion based of course.

Lucky we have you Finger to hold all clubs to account, otherwise where the hell would this league be ??

In all seriousness, unless you were a part of what took place on the day (OFC v H'ville), how on earth you could possibly make comment on who has cases to answer for etc ? There is no case to answer for ! There will no replayed games or anything of that nature. Both sides have 2 pts, and if it costs H'ville a spot in Div 1, crap happens. And if it costs Emerald a spot in Div 1, crap happens - mind you only 4 weeks ago they were eyeing off 3rd spot - funny old world isn't it ??

Well played Chris Tarrant, will miss the cannons !!!

 

[Monniehawk]

Odd. Out of interest why do you think Healesville might have some sort of case to answer? Remembering this is ALL opinion based of course.

A few people have raised this in general conversation. I got interested in the legalities of it, because a lot of it was just heresay and, frankly, a bit hysterical.
Because it is possible that the matter is not finished, I am now loathe to put anything that relates directly to the events on the forum. Like most people, I don't have all the facts, just opinions and don't wish to prejudice anyone's case.
I couldn't find anything specific in our rules - By Law 34 only covers abandoned games after they have started. That being the case we must go higher up the chain.
There are a couple that I think do need to be considered: our league has rules, but we are subject also to the VCFL who, again, is subject to the AFL rules!
This is a relevant text clip:

AFL Rules and Regulations 10.6.2 part (a)

Match Not Commenced
The result of a Match which is unable to commence for reasons beyond the control of the Team shall be determined by the Controlling Body.)

This rule covers games abandoned, but not started. Our case in point. So the League has the right to rule on it in accordance with its own guidelines. Precedent is not necessarily a guideline.