Review 2014 Post Season Member Briefing (fan forum)

[MyManLynch]

The question that I would of loved to ask but didn't get a chance too, is why they were reporting Freeman's injury as 2-3 weeks in the papers, when it was very serious. To me that is deliberately misleading the members.

The problem with the member Q & A on the night is that members were asking multiple questions which agitated Eddie as he wanted a more 1 question then done. There were also members that got up on the microphone and rambled on for several minutes about how many membership they bought, who they go with the footy with, without discussing or asking questions about issues.

Good question, I assume the club will play it differently with injuries next year (hopefully a huge reduction), by listing TBA or indefinite for the more serious injuries that are not responding (Reid & Freeman).

I would have thought that a 1 question per member limit should apply, to give all attendees a better opportunity.
Maybe an MC to adjudicate & control the floor.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Salary cap banking.
Some mention (by Hine) as to why we were recruiting some cheaper players to top up our list.
Did he actually say we are banking some cap OR we had to go after such players because that's all we could afford? I hope it's the former.

I don't think he alluded to anything (but I might be wrong).

Could be to bank, or it could be to squeeze players in.

 

[MyManLynch]

Yes against Geelong at Kardinia Park in Round 1 of NAB cup. It's the only game he featured in all year and only got to 4 mins 20 to go before half time…and that was the end of his season.

Maybe he was only going to play the first half??

 

[76woodenspooners]

Salary cap banking.
Some mention (by Hine) as to why we were recruiting some cheaper players to top up our list.
Did he actually say we are banking some cap OR we had to go after such players because that's all we could afford? I hope it's the former.

I don't think he alluded to anything (but I might be wrong).

Could be to bank, or it could be to squeeze players in.

My takeaway too

 

[PieNSauce]

Reading this thread is really quite amusing.

People who actually ATTENDED were happy with the meeting and thought that the club did a good job trying to address the issues that were raised. It has been described as open and honest, not full of planted people asking questions they were prepared for.

Yet the posters who are eternally angry on these boards, who DID NOT ATTEND, sit back here and take pot shots at the whole thing and declare it a waste of time. I'm talking about posters like escobar, Krueger, PieBeast etc who come on these boards and whinge every day yet didn't attend, then still sit back and complain.

It would be funny if it wasn't so utterly predictable.

Is there a way to make a single post "sticky" because if there is this would be it! Well said!


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[Smokeyr67]

Serious question, were you satisfied with the response regarding our injuries?

I'm not who you intended to answer the question, but my answer is the only satisfactory response will be a reasonable and manageable injury list from here on forward.

 

[PieNSauce]

I'm not who you intended to answer the question, but my answer is the only satisfactory response will be a reasonable and manageable injury list from here on forward.

It seems to me that the club has made it very clear that they are as concerned as they are aware of the problems and are taking action to understand and address it. I'm not sure why it is that some in the thread don't see that. I also reckon that reading beyond the specific answers about length of unavailability advice from the club, it's fairly obvious that the club is taking a new approach to management based on the availability of improved technology to monitor healing. To me this leads to uncertainty about how long a player will take to fully recover because this method of diagnosis is relatively new. Personally I couldn't care that the club's advice is inaccurate if the actual management improves outcomes and the club's medicos actually are learning to understand the best treatment. The more important aim must be to fix whatever it is that is leading to players breaking down in the first place.


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[TradeDraft]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-02/collingwoods-disappearing-act

From the Ambulance Chaser and I won’t listen to much he has to say

 

[TheFreshBanana]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-02/collingwoods-disappearing-act

From the Ambulance Chaser and I won’t listen to much he has to say

Ridiculous piece, considering he wasn't even there.

Didn't even use any of the quotes at the actual forum, instead used more than months old quotes.

I will respond to this bit of the article:

Internally, the situation has been different, much more heated. McGuire, as is his right, went on an in-house rant in the same week, demanding answers to why so many players fell to injury for a second consecutive year. At one stage of his blow-up, no one felt safe in his job, particularly high performance manager Bill Davoren.

This is wrong.

Eddie made it quite clear that he is just like one of us. He question everybody from Pert to Bucks, as to what the heck is going on at the club. There is no illusion that the club deems that this season has been a failure.

 

[TradeDraft]

Ridiculous piece, considering he wasn't even there.

Didn't even use any of the quotes at the actual forum, instead used more than months old quotes.

I will respond to this bit of the article:

This is wrong.

Eddie made it quite clear that he is just like one of us. He question everybody from Pert to Bucks, as to what the **** is going on at the club. There is no illusion that the club deems that this season has been a failure.

Barett is an Out and Out Flog

 

[Markfs]

If anyone remembers Essendon's 2012 season, they will remember them winning 8-1 in the first part of the season and then losing most of the games in the second half of the season to miss the finals.

There were articles in the media about soft tissue injuries
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/es...se-strikes-again/story-fnelctok-1226443344394

In the end, the club said they were caused by changing to a more running based training program.

Anyone see the familiarity??

Anyone wondering why we didnt learn something?

Anyone wondering why we are changing to a running based training program two years after Essendon?

Anyone wondering if the previous fitness director was a sacred cow at the Pies and couldnt be questioned about his methods?

I'm starting to wonder....

 

[Scodog10]

For those questioning some of the appointments; lets not forget Bucks signed on with a senior coach to guide him and still hasn't got it.
Davoren has an athletics background and he was brought in to build our aerobic capacity.
Bucks mentioned the game against Swans last year at the G when they just ran all night and killed us as a sign of our lack of fitness.
The times in the game when we get the ball in our back line and then there's no one to kick to in the forward line, lack of fitness to do the up and back running, as well as not sticking to the game plan.
Other examples were Port last year twice when they ran us off our feet too.
Davoren has been brought in to fix that.

I thought it was a good presentation and it's funny how we think we know better than them; like the guy who tried to tell Bill about bike riding and the impact on hamstrings - the guy, (Bill) has been in the business since 1991!!

The bolded concerns me and cuts right to the heart of why I no longer have faith in Buckley.

AFL is a professional sport the difference between one club to the next in terms of fitness levels is finite. Where teams like Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney excel is that they focus their running get to a specific spot after a contest. They ensure that they are all spreading to particular areas of the ground.

The Fremantle v Sydney Prelim last year was a master class of this. I don't know how they did it, but the Fremantle players spread so well that they didn't get within 5 metres of each other outside of contests for the whole match. They made Sydney look like a Div 3 EDFL team fitness wise that night!!

At the end of the day the bolded statement indicates that our focus is on running harder as opposed to running smarter which is so arse backwards, IMO, and you can see it when we play. I'm sure there's those that will disagree with my take, but I'm yet to see Jobe Watson or Sam Mitchell be outrun and they are far from fitness beasts.

I certainly don't want to criticise answers or take pot shots because I wasn't able to attend with uni and I appreciate the feedback provided. However I wanted to give a further analytical snapshot into why long term Buckley isn't the man for me.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

The bolded concerns me and cuts right to the heart of why I no longer have faith in Buckley.

AFL is a professional sport the difference between one club to the next in terms of fitness levels is finite. Where teams like Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney excel is that they focus their running get to a specific spot after a contest. They ensure that they are all spreading to particular areas of the ground.

The Fremantle v Sydney Prelim last year was a master class of this. I don't know how they did it, but the Fremantle players spread so well that they didn't get within 5 metres of each other outside of contests for the whole match. They made Sydney look like a Div 3 EDFL team fitness wise that night!!

At the end of the day the bolded statement indicates that our focus is on running harder as opposed to running smarter which is so arse backwards, IMO, and you can see it when we play. I'm sure there's those that will disagree with my take, but I'm yet to see Jobe Watson or Sam Mitchell be outrun and they are far from fitness beasts.

I certainly don't want to criticise answers or take pot shots because I wasn't able to attend with uni and I appreciate the feedback provided. However I wanted to give a further analytical snapshot into why long term Buckley isn't the man for me.

He touched on running smarter, mainly in reference when talking about disposal by foot.

You don't want to be chasing down miskicked balls, which will continue to run down the energy.

 

[Anzacday]

The bolded concerns me and cuts right to the heart of why I no longer have faith in Buckley.

AFL is a professional sport the difference between one club to the next in terms of fitness levels is finite. Where teams like Hawthorn, Fremantle, Geelong and Sydney excel is that they focus their running get to a specific spot after a contest. They ensure that they are all spreading to particular areas of the ground.

The Fremantle v Sydney Prelim last year was a master class of this. I don't know how they did it, but the Fremantle players spread so well that they didn't get within 5 metres of each other outside of contests for the whole match. They made Sydney look like a Div 3 EDFL team fitness wise that night!!

At the end of the day the bolded statement indicates that our focus is on running harder as opposed to running smarter which is so arse backwards, IMO, and you can see it when we play. I'm sure there's those that will disagree with my take, but I'm yet to see Jobe Watson or Sam Mitchell be outrun and they are far from fitness beasts.

I certainly don't want to criticise answers or take pot shots because I wasn't able to attend with uni and I appreciate the feedback provided. However I wanted to give a further analytical snapshot into why long term Buckley isn't the man for me.

I take another view, I am pleased they've identified the issues and are trying to rectify it.
The point about running smarter comes with experience and fitness, we were inexperienced and even when our senior players were there they were hampered, (read Ball & Swan as examples).
The players are given team rules and if they don't follow them on game day, then it's hardly the coaches fault.
For example, I know they were given a directive not to have a shot from outside 50 as we're one of the lowest converting teams, guess who did against the Hawks - Pendles of all people. So even the best laid plans go astray sometimes.
I'm a big fan of the man & I know in my heart of hearts he will no stone unturned in the quest for success, (and he does Eddie will turn it form him!).

 

[Robroy22]

So you will enjoy watching the kids tearing hamstrings and doing soft tissue injuries? Cause effectively that's what you're saying. Half our young players couldn't even get on field this season lmao. From this angle is clear I care more about watching the future than you do.

You do a LOT of loud stuff mate....do you ever bother to do anything practical? Get down there, you can obviously FIX everything that's gone wrong since the 1890's. I'll care in my own way if you don't mind! I'll be supportive and I'll enjoy MY CLUB the way I was brought up to do it. Whinge and moan as much as you want...you're irrelevant. So off you go...lyaoastti ( Laugh Your Arse Off And Stop Talking Through It)

 

[Scodog10]

He touched on running smarter, mainly in reference when talking about disposal by foot.

You don't want to be chasing down miskicked balls, which will continue to run down the energy.

That's one of those top down issues. With blokes like Toovey, Brown, Frost and Williams exiting the back half they mis kick regularly placing pressure on others providing a need for further fitness. It just seems like we're chasing our tail.

Emphasize skill and footy smarts (as Hawthorn and Geelong do) at the draft and you watch our fitness, skills, structure etc. increase it won't even need a focus on overall fitness levels because that will come with natural progression.

I take another view, I am pleased they've identified the issues and are trying to rectify it.
The point about running smarter comes with experience and fitness, we were inexperienced and even when our senior players were there they were hampered, (read Ball & Swan as examples).
The players are given team rules and if they don't follow them on game day, then it's hardly the coaches fault.
For example, I know they were given a directive not to have a shot from outside 50 as we're one of the lowest converting teams, guess who did against the Hawks - Pendles of all people. So even the best laid plans go astray sometimes.
I'm a big fan of the man & I know in my heart of hearts he will no stone unturned in the quest for success, (and he does Eddie will turn it form him!).

From my view they need to be sacked if they can't identify this stuff. I mean I'm external and it stands out like the proverbial to me.

Unfortunately this isn't an experience issue because some of our experienced players are the worst culprits (Blair, Lumumba, Goldsack and Macaffer) so like our kick ins and skill level it's top down.

Yes it is the coaches fault if the players don't follow team rules! Ross Lyon would never allow players to run around not following his impromada. They'd be dropped in a heartbeat. In the Pendles situation the players are instructed to go long and skinny to avoid being burnt on the turnover and that's where the ball wound up....

Buckley's self drive and determination was a massive asset as a player, but as a coach it means very little because he has no direct control over the outcome of a match. He needs to give us structure and tactics and we are yet to see any of the nuances that make a great coach.

FWIW my frustration is just a general one (not directed at you ) because so much of the support of Buckley is based on blind faith and his attributes as a player not what we've seen from Buckley the coach.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

It doesn't matter how skilful you are. If you're not as fit as the other team, the fatigue is going to make all that skill moot in the 2nd half.

 

[PieBeast]

If you're skillful, classy and have a decent game plan you don't have to bust the arse as much as we need to in order of winning games, even against s**t opponents.

 

[Anzacday]

Buckley's self drive and determination was a massive asset as a player, but as a coach it means very little because he has no direct control over the outcome of a match. He needs to give us structure and tactics and we are yet to see any of the nuances that make a great coach.
FWIW my frustration is just a general one (not directed at you ) because so much of the support of Buckley is based on blind faith and his attributes as a player not what we've seen from Buckley the coach.

I'm not taking it personally, (but thanks).
I don't consider my faith to be blind; I believe if you identify shortcomings, (be they personal or team) and take steps to rectify them, we can't ask much more than that and that is what he/they are doing.
Tough calls to move on via trade/retirements were made for the betterment of the list a skill or desire I don't believe the grumpy one had.

It doesn't matter how skilful you are. If you're not as fit as the other team, the fatigue is going to make all that skill moot in the 2nd half.

Spot on.
If/when we have our players on the field playing the roles/positions the way they're expected to and we still lose then I'll re-consider my opinion.

 

[Rorzza]

I heard/read(BF) somewhere Hawthorne have had a drafting criteria for some time on their young fella's and endurance plus kicking is high on that list. If so, it show's they are not just a very skillful team they can also run all day. It sounds like a very simple policy but is hard to implement when teams like Collingwood who have been up for so long don't get access to high end talent. Hawthorne have done well!

 

[Scodog10]

If you're skillful, classy and have a decent game plan you don't have to bust the arse as much as we need to in order of winning games, even against s**t opponents.

It doesn't matter how skilful you are. If you're not as fit as the other team, the fatigue is going to make all that skill moot in the 2nd half.

Two sides of the same coin for mine and I'm coming down on Piebeast's side because we have too many poor ball users in general.

For example our ball use was in the 40's as a % for the first quarter v GWS and that isn't as a result of a fatigue factor...

 

[PieNSauce]

I'm just blown away that people still seem to think that the answer is to sack the coach, go to the market for a successor and then restart the rebuild over. To me that puts us another 5 to 7 years off contending. Blows my mind!

 

[ksardog]

I'm just blown away that people still seem to think that the answer is to sack the coach, go to the market for a successor and then restart the rebuild over. To me that puts us another 5 to 7 years off contending. Blows my mind!

We started a rebuild after back to back grand finals so nothing suprises me anymore

 

[76woodenspooners]

We started a rebuild after before back to back grand finals so nothing suprises me anymore

EFA

 

[jmac70]

We started a rebuild after back to back grand finals so nothing suprises me anymore

2012 was a rebuild was it?