Preview AFL 2nd Qualifying Final - Hawthorn v Geelong, MCG, 7:50PM Friday 5 September

[Shai]

The club knows what his strengths are and what he has to offer- he definitely will get more game time next year. What I don't like is the fact that the club gives him (and others like Brown and Walker) very little game time during the year but then expects them to be able to stand up in big games at the end of the year. Sometimes it's just a disaster- like playing Walker in the QF last year was although, to be fair, he did play in R21 and 22 but he was expected to help fill the hole left by the absence of Tom Hawkins after playing just one of his two previous games alongside him.

Thurlow seems to be a very composed player under pressure but it's still a big ask to bring him in late in the season then expose him to the high pressure of finals. He's now played 3 in a row (1? as a sub)- but it's still tough on a player with just 8 games experience.

Totally agree with you about the pressure Teri but the 'kitten' has looked very composed/at home..

 

[Lana]

I like playing with the stats, too- you've gone to a lot of trouble to try and pinpoint a particular area, which is great, but wouldn't it be really good if we could just find these stats all on the one site? Even if we had to pay an annual fee to access them (hopefully a very small fee , I'd be happy. I was trying to find effective hitout stats- did see them one day ages ago but can't seem to locate them again. They are in the weekly newspaper here but I haven't been keeping track of them, unfortunately.

Footywire have some stats, the AFL tables site has stats- some different from F/W, I think, then there's the AFL site itself that has additional stats... so it's a matter of pulling up 3 websites or making your own tables all the time.

I guess the other, lengthier, option would be to re-watch the game and collect our own stats-- much MUCH too painful

Champion data gets paid millions a year by the AFL and the various clubs to provide their detailed stats. By restricting public access to the "good stuff" the hold all of the power when it comes to analysis otherwise anyone could come up with the own basket of statistics. There not going to release to every day fans for a small fee.

For any one person, it would be difficult, it wouldn't be too difficult if mutliple people were working on the same thing like vinum coupe did with the clearances. For example if one person, recoreded the stats, another exported them to excel and a third person turned the data into a pivot table. And did it on a week by week basis by the end of the year, you'd have a large source of clearence data.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Totally agree with you about the pressure Teri but the 'kitten' has looked very composed/at home..

True- he certainly doesn't appear to rush things and he looks like he's thinking things through very well. Not all players are like him, unfortunately. McCarthy seems to be one young bloke who rushes his disposal. I think it just gives them an extra hurdle to get over.

 

[meto]

The club knows what his strengths are and what he has to offer- he definitely will get more game time next year. What I don't like is the fact that the club gives him (and others like Brown and Walker) very little game time during the year but then expects them to be able to stand up in big games at the end of the year. Sometimes it's just a disaster- like playing Walker in the QF last year was although, to be fair, he did play in R21 and 22 but he was expected to help fill the hole left by the absence of Tom Hawkins after playing just one of his two previous games alongside him.

Thurlow seems to be a very composed player under pressure but it's still a big ask to bring him in late in the season then expose him to the high pressure of finals. He's now played 3 in a row (1? as a sub)- but it's still tough on a player with just 8 games experience.

Exactly, they've done that to much this year, that's why I don't jump on these guys like others on here do, but with TV he's been given an open chequebook of games and at 26-7years and 140 games, I do. OK, finally we're seeing something, but gee! it's been long over due.

But getting back to criticising VFL guys for struggling, in there 1 chance games, it's just crazy! No wonder Hawthorn said bugger this, we'll take Simpkin if you don't want him. Thurlow 20 possessions and 6 overheads etc, he's performing out of his socks!

 

[Teriyakicat]

Champion data gets paid millions a year by the AFL and the various clubs to by restricting public access to the "good stuff" the hold all of the power when it comes to analysis otherwise anyone could come up with the own basket of statistics. There not going to release to every day fans for a small fee.

For any one person, it would be difficult, it wouldn't be too difficult if mutliple people were working on the same thing like vinum coupe did with the clearances. For example if one person, recoreded the stats, another exported them to excel and a third person turned the data into a pivot table. And did it on a week by week basis by the end of the year, you'd have a large source of clearence data.

Pick me for colouring in the table when it's done

Yeah, I can see your point. I thought that Champion Data had an app that cost $35 or so but, by the time I decided to see what was offered for that money, I couldn't find the app anymore
I can't see anyone here putting up their hand to volunteer to watch and analyse the games each week, though, just to provide data for discussion on BF. It's a shame really.... And you can't get the full picture from watching the game on TV, either...

 

[cat in sydney]

What I don't like is the fact that the club gives him (and others like Brown and Walker) very little game time during the year but then expects them to be able to stand up in big games at the end of the year. Sometimes it's just a disaster- like playing Walker in the QF last year was although, to be fair, he did play in R21 and 22 but he was expected to help fill the hole left by the absence of Tom Hawkins after playing just one of his two previous games alongside him.

I get what you're saying, and I think in some ways that's what they've tried to do this year with Kersten (give him plenty of game time this year), but he has either just faded out or doesn't have what it takes. That's the inexact science of team selection and development... you have to give most players enough time to develop, but not all players will. They clearly chose Kersten to be the one this year, but it hasn't happened.
Next year, it might be Brown or Walker... or Kersten again.

 

[Teriyakicat]

I get what you're saying, and I think in some ways that's what they've tried to do this year with Kersten (give him plenty of game time this year), but he has either just faded out or doesn't have what it takes. That's the inexact science of team selection and development... you have to give most players enough time to develop, but not all players will. They clearly chose Kersten to be the one this year, but it hasn't happened.
Next year, it might be Brown or Walker... or Kersten again.

I think I mentioned elsewhere that I'm a big fan of the three tall forwards (obviously depending on the opponent of the day) but the club struggled to get games into the three options that we had to assist Hawkins because a) they had injuries or b) we were trying to play the extra ruck as a tall forward because we had two rucks that were 50/50 with a possibility of breaking down and needed to play them both so as to get them game-fit. So HMac/Brown were the first 2 talls they tried alongside Hawkins- with Burbury/McCarthy as the small crumber- and that worked OK until Brown got an injury, and Burbury/McCarthy also disappeared into rehab. Then, once HMac and Simpson played half a season together and the MC knew they weren't about to snap in half, they started rotating them. Kersten was still unavailable at this stage but I don't know why Walker wasn't given a run- perhaps the coaches were trying different structures and decided to stick with the single forward target. (good practice for Tom, to try and beat 3 opponents each week)
Then it was Tom plus Kersten- yeah, that worked the first week vs Gold Coast... and they kicked 20 goals between them in the first 4 games before Kersten became invisible.

Hopefully Kersten will be back bigger and better next season. He has talent- but hasn't really given us any confidence that he's 'clicked' in the forward structure yet. Maybe with the addition of Brown/Walker, the pressure will be taken off him and he will be freed up to kick a few more goals.

 

[you pick one]

The way I see the ruck is Scott knows he's got one genuine ruckman,we have 3 games minimum to go maybe four for the flag and McIntosh won't be able to carry us the full journey with out support,we have Blits but after Saturday night he must consider a three prong ruck brigade rotating through the forward 50 and against the Hawks,It's crucial IMO to win the battle of the air up forward and lock the ball in as the Hawks rebound out of the back line will kill you,so no surprise here Walker over Brown for me,no knock on Brown I just believe we need to preserve our limited ruck stocks to go all the way.

 

[dazbroncos]

Good game plan - lose every single stat that matters, and rely on the opposition butchering their chances in front of goal. Can't see it happening somehow.

Where did I say it would be THE hawks 08 game plan?

I didn't. I simply made reference to a game plan that was utilized in one game and that CS may have something similar on a broad scale.

Go Catters

 

[you pick one]

Anyone post the umpies for Friday night? if not.
Matt Nicholls, Razor Ray and Troy Pannell.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yes and similarly I chuckled at the Norf flog on Bay 13 who said Marcus Ashcroft was the worst triple premiership player ever. I am sure Ashcroft is quite upset at that (not), and that said flog could have done a better job than him had he played in his place. But of course he wasn't playing was he?

Remember it takes all types, even on here.

Here's his quote about Buddha:

Player 12: Garry Hocking



"Buddha" is rated by many media flogs as one of the guns of the 1990s. Truth is a little different. Whilst he was a decent accumulator of the footy his disposal was shocking. He was best known for his mop of curly hair and being the biggest sellout in AFL/VFL history. The modern day equivalent of him as a player is Matt Priddis.

Career Stats:
Games: 274
Average Disposals: 22.5

I lol'd given his avatar was Boomer, who in the same statistical category is:
Games: 382
Average Disposals: 21.2

Also Boomer has kicked and average of 1.19 compared to Buddha's .89..... Wonder if he views boomer in the same light

 

[allrighty]

Here's his quote about Buddha:


I lol'd given his avatar was Boomer, who in the same statistical category is:
Games: 382
Average Disposals: 21.2

Also Boomer has kicked and average of 1.19 compared to Buddha's .89..... Wonder if he views boomer in the same light

Yeah I chuckled at Buddha and a few others. I had a dig at him with no reply.

Keyboard warrior flog who even the "softest" ever player in the AFL would sit back on his useless arse in no time flat.

 

[Glassjaw]

Anyone post the umpies for Friday night? if not.
Matt Nicholls, Razor Ray and Troy Pannell.

This image has been made previously for a reason...

Deadset worst umpire in the game.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

This image has been made previously for a reason...

Deadset worst umpire in the game.

I had a feeling we'd be given the dubious Nicholls to officiate.

Anyway it won't matter.

 

[Cataholic]

Did the boys train today?

If so, any observers / comments?

 

[goyoucatters]

Did the boys train today?

If so, any observers / comments?

Main session tomorrow, I believe.

Need SJ to make it out there and get through unscathed...

 

[Cataholic]

Main session tomorrow, I believe.

Need SJ to make it out there and get through unscathed...

Ah, ok. Wasn't sure.

Cheers

 

[Cataholic]

This image has been made previously for a reason...

Deadset worst umpire in the game.

Hawks are complaining too.

They're claiming the reverse, but no surprise there.

 

[Baudolino]

This image has been made previously for a reason...

Deadset worst umpire in the game.

Hmmm....was it made because some people hold the bizarre opinion that certain umpires have a partisan agenda, despite the fact that there is literally no evidence to substantiate such a claim?

That would be my guess. Was I close?

 

[vealesy]

Did the boys train today?

If so, any observers / comments?

Today was their day off.

 

[you pick one]

I don't care who the umpires are for this one as long as they know how far 15 metres is and call play on for anything shorter.

 

[Cataholic]

Today was their day off.

Thanks mate.

 

[vealesy]

I don't care who the umpires are for this one as long as they know how far 15 metres is and call play on for anything shorter.

This.

Plus, watch the holds on Hawkins.

 

[romeoh]

I don't care who the umpires are for this one as long as they know how far 15 metres is and call play on for anything shorter.

Yep and see if the umps can play spotto the legal handballs from Roughy and Mitchell.

 

[cats_09]

This.

Plus, watch the holds on Hawkins.

That will never happen - the rule seems to be that the bigger & stronger the forward, the more the defender is allowed to hold & impede.