Snoops Annual Player Review, List and Draft Strategy

[Snoop Dog]

Wouldn't we need to upgrade Frost to the senior list also??

I had assumed he is already there given he has been effectively promoted but yeah true. Should change to 40 on list and 5 ND selections of which 1 will be used on him to promote.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Does anyone know when our delistings happen?

wouldnt mind betting you may start hearing tomorrow or Thursday. I don't think it will take them long given most of them are forced through retirements.

 

[rand corp]

Great read and great work as usual snoop, thanks.

Really, I think we had a lot of players struggle to overcome the fact that they did not get in a pre-season (Fasolo, Seedsman, Thomas to name just a few) and then a lot of players tapering or going down with injury towards the end of the year so form was hard to gauge with many of them.

Witts, Broomy, Frost, Langdon the good news stories from the year.

Cloke, Swan, Harry, Reid, White the biggest disappointments for various reasons.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Would like to get Stewart, not sure what we'd have to give GWS though.

yeah he may be one that slipped through but to be fair to the club he wasnt very dominant that year and really struggled through champs. In fact I dont think many had Jimmy in their first, second or even thrid round calcs and I know a few people were surprised GWS took him that early. Clearly they saw what others didnt.

I think if you had lined most people up and said if you could have 3 of Grundy, broomhead, Kennedy and Stewart most (including myself) would have done what the club did. Be interested in Knightmare view as he was wathcing him as well.

In terms of getting him back? I would be telling him GWS cant possibly fit Boyd, Cameron, Patton, McCarthy and himself into a fwd 50 structure. Whether the club has burnt their britches with him am not sure.

i'd give them something like Lumumba, Blair, 2nd round pick, Josh Thomas. lumumba and 2nd round for Stewart and Sumner?

 

[Anzacday]

I think if you had lined most people up and said if you could have 3 of Grundy, broomhead, Kennedy and Stewart most (including myself) would have done what the club did.

Agree, Derek said the other night they were completely honest with James and Craig, (his Dad) and told them what their plans were, (wanting to trade into the draft).
Bucks also talked about Jake Kelly and said he hopes he goes well as he's a ripping kid, (Dad Craig is one of Bucks' best mates) but when they looked at their list needs he didn't fit into their plans.
Good to see they are upfront with the kids and their parents I reckon

 

[ksardog]

We still would of had grundy kennedy and broomhead.
Stewart was taken at 27, we would of had him instead of ramsay (38) .

If we nominated him and a club bid on him before our 3 early picks then i would say fair enough, but we didnt even do that. We stuffed up this one

 

[MooreTreloar]

yeah he may be one that slipped through but to be fair to the club he wasnt very dominant that year and really struggled through champs. In fact I dont think many had Jimmy in their first, second or even thrid round calcs and I know a few people were surprised GWS took him that early. Clearly they saw what others didnt.

I think if you had lined most people up and said if you could have 3 of Grundy, broomhead, Kennedy and Stewart most (including myself) would have done what the club did. Be interested in Knightmare view as he was wathcing him as well.

In terms of getting him back? I would be telling him GWS cant possibly fit Boyd, Cameron, Patton, McCarthy and himself into a fwd 50 structure. Whether the club has burnt their britches with him am not sure.

i'd give them something like Lumumba, Blair, 2nd round pick, Josh Thomas. lumumba and 2nd round for Stewart and Sumner?

Thanks snoop, agree 10@% worth everything you wrote. I was surprised he went when he did, though he'd be there at 38.

Re trade: happy to give them Lumumba and a 2nd rounder for Strewart $ Sumner.

 

[Anzacday]

We still would of had grundy kennedy and broomhead.
Stewart was taken at 27, we would of had him instead of ramsay (38) .

If we nominated him and a club bid on him before our 3 early picks then i would say fair enough, but we didnt even do that. We stuffed up this one

I don't understand?
How can we draft him with pick 38 if he was taken at pick 27?
We traded to move ourselves up the draft order for 18 & 19 and in fact we managed to move up from 42 to 39, (which became 38) by the looks of it.

Here's what we did...
In: Quinten Lynch (West Coast), Clinton Young (Hawthorn), Jordan Russell (Carlton), NAB AFL Draft selections 18, 21, 39
Out: Chris Dawes (Melbourne), Sharrod Wellingham (West Coast), Tom Young (Western Bulldogs); Paul Cribbin, Daniel Farmer, Shae McNamara, Lachlan Smith, Trent Stubbs (delisted rookies); draft selections 42, 48, 58
Damian Barrett's trade take: "I liked what they did and I liked it a lot. They've still got those key picks … that's a beautiful array of selections for [Collingwood recruiting manager] Derek Hine."
Draft selections: 18, 19, 21, 39, 82

We couldn't have our cake and eat it; we chose the two first round picks over James Stewart.
So to say we stuffed up is to say that drafting two of Grundy, Broomy or Kenno was a mistake.

 

[ksardog]

I don't understand?
How can we draft him with pick 38 if he was taken at pick 27?
We traded to move ourselves up the draft order for 18 & 19 and in fact we managed to move up from 42 to 39, (which became 38) by the looks of it.

Here's what we did...
In: Quinten Lynch (West Coast), Clinton Young (Hawthorn), Jordan Russell (Carlton), NAB AFL Draft selections 18, 21, 39
Out: Chris Dawes (Melbourne), Sharrod Wellingham (West Coast), Tom Young (Western Bulldogs); Paul Cribbin, Daniel Farmer, Shae McNamara, Lachlan Smith, Trent Stubbs (delisted rookies); draft selections 42, 48, 58
Damian Barrett's trade take: "I liked what they did and I liked it a lot. They've still got those key picks … that's a beautiful array of selections for [Collingwood recruiting manager] Derek Hine."
Draft selections: 18, 19, 21, 39, 82

We couldn't have our cake and eat it; we chose the two first round picks over James Stewart.
So to say we stuffed up is to say that drafting two of Grundy, Broomy or Kenno was a mistake.

I understood it to be if a club offered a pick before us in the same round that we hav to match that pick with a same round pick but after it . Am i wrong?

For example with moore, if a club after our pick bids for him, say pick 9, because that is after our pick ( 8 ) we can use our secound round pick on him (26 )

How is that any different to stewart regarding GWS using 27 and us using 38 on him. We didnt nominate him, that was the problem

 

[Anzacday]

I understood it to be if a club offered a pick before us in the same round that we hav to match that pick with a same round pick but after it . Am i wrong?

For example with moore, if a club after our pick bids for him, say pick 9, because that is after our pick ( 8 ) we can use our secound round pick on him (26 )

How is that any different to stewart regarding GWS using 27 and us using 38 on him. We didn't nominate him, that was the problem

Correct - missed that bit, (sorry).
The main point is we didn't want to risk mucking with our strategy of moving up the draft order so we didn't nominate him, if for example we did and GWS said they wanted him and offered pick 12, (Jaksch) then we were stuffed.

 

[ksardog]

Correct - missed that bit, (sorry).
The main point is we didn't want to risk mucking with our strategy of moving up the draft order so we didn't nominate him, if for example we did and GWS said they wanted him and offered pick 12, (Jaksch) then we were stuffed.

How were we stuffed??? We didnt rate him that early, most thought 2nd rounder or later. If GWS played that game we would of said take him

 

[Collingwoodity]

Biggest fails this year have been the failure to get Scharenberg and Freeman on the park.

Disgraceful management of the injuries.

Why didn't the club ensure Scharenberg was operated on as soon as he was drafted instead of wait for the season to commence?

Why did the club not allow Freeman's hamstring to heal properly on the first occasion?

 

[Anzacday]

How were we stuffed??? We didnt rate him that early, most thought 2nd rounder or later. If GWS played that game we would of said take him

Fair point, but I'd rather they did what they did and played a straight bat with the kid rather than get his hopes up we were going to draft him and then say oh whoops it got too hard/expensive, (pick wise) sorry.

 

[ksardog]

Fair point, but I'd rather they did what they did and played a straight bat with the kid rather than get his hopes up we were going to draft him and then say oh whoops it got too hard/expensive, (pick wise) sorry.

Whats wrong with saying to him we rate u a mid 2nd to 3rd round pick. The FACT is they didnt rate him that highly and in my opinion ( only my opinion ) i think they got it wrong.

So all the technical stuff, 'where he was drafted' , 'we were after 4 first round picks' or whatever else spin they want to put on it, they didnt rate him as a footballer worthy of nominating him. Rather them just say we got it wrong. We rate ramsay a better player. Because they obviously do because otherwise he would be on our list now

 

[mike123]

Interesting.....I would think Tyson finishes higher in the Copeland but granted its not likely either will be top 10 and won't be much in it but I would think Tyson was better. Goldy was pretty good early.

Lumumba had a great start to the year but in the second half slowed he slowed down. Goldsack improved towards the end playing in the backline but was really ineffective most games.

 

[ksardog]

Lumumba had a great start to the year but in the second half slowed he slowed down. Goldsack improved towards the end playing in the backline but was really ineffective most games.

Overall they were both below expectations. But lumumbas best was far better than goldsacks. In my opinion. Goldsack best game was against WC when he had to go down back, apart from a few tackles on anzac day i didnt really see much

 

[Apex36]

Whats wrong with saying to him we rate u a mid 2nd to 3rd round pick. The FACT is they didnt rate him that highly and in my opinion ( only my opinion ) i think they got it wrong.

So all the technical stuff, 'where he was drafted' , 'we were after 4 first round picks' or whatever else spin they want to put on it, they didnt rate him as a footballer worthy of nominating him. Rather them just say we got it wrong. We rate ramsay a better player. Because they obviously do because otherwise he would be on our list now

I think that the pies weren't expecting Stewart to be nominated until after their second round pick to be honest.
Since we only planned on using the four picks, if we had nominated Stewart, we ran the risk of having to pick him up with our third rounder which we didn't want to use.
Who knows, if Stewart had been there at 38 we may have even taken him, but at this point it's all speculation. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

 

[ksardog]

U clearly dont understand. We nominate what we think his worth, the market dictates what his worth is if a club bids.
We didnt nominate, no club had to bid.
We didnt even test the waters
Mistake on our behalf

 

[Ketchup]

Biggest fails this year have been the failure to get Scharenberg and Freeman on the park.

Disgraceful management of the injuries.

Why didn't the club ensure Scharenberg was operated on as soon as he was drafted instead of wait for the season to commence?

Why did the club not allow Freeman's hamstring to heal properly on the first occasion?

Freeman is an interesting case. Scharenberg was never going to play this year, we all knew that when we drafted him. The ACL is just bad luck. However being of the opinion that there was no point him playing in the VFL this year is the only thing that annoys me because sadly, the people in this opinion was right.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I understood it to be if a club offered a pick before us in the same round that we hav to match that pick with a same round pick but after it . Am i wrong?

For example with moore, if a club after our pick bids for him, say pick 9, because that is after our pick ( 8 ) we can use our secound round pick on him (26 )

How is that any different to stewart regarding GWS using 27 and us using 38 on him. We didnt nominate him, that was the problem

I understand where you are coming from insomuch as maybe the club should have selected him but I suspect they thought that they were likely to get a much later pick than 38 (which only came to bear later) and that they wouldnt ultimtely have a selection outside the first 3 first rounders that would have been good enough to match a bid. You are right we could have tested it but equally I think they wanted to do the right thing by the kid / family. Question is should they have been more focussed on what was best for just the CFC or both parties. Interesting question.

FWIW I think given where GWS took him they might have made Collingwood part with a first rounder. They could well have nominated in the spot they took McCarthy and made Collingwood match which they wouldnt have.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Lumumba had a great start to the year but in the second half slowed he slowed down. Goldsack improved towards the end playing in the backline but was really ineffective most games.

yeah look they were probably on par maybe over the year. Dont forget Goldsack was being lauded for his defensive work in the fwd 50 early in the season.

 

[Pendles!]

U clearly dont understand. We nominate what we think his worth, the market dictates what his worth is if a club bids.
We didnt nominate, no club had to bid.
We didnt even test the waters
Mistake on our behalf

We didn't want to tie up a pic. Obviously we were very active in the trade period and so we didn't want to be restricted. Remember bidding happens before trade week.

At the time Stewart was a massive reach at 27 so we probably weren't thinking he'd be gone by then. we may have looked to take him with out 39. Remember we traded up to that 39 also.

There's too many variables to say what should have happened. Hindsight is great isn't it though.

 

[ksardog]

We didn't want to tie up a pic. Obviously we were very active in the trade period and so we didn't want to be restricted. Remember bidding happens before trade week.

At the time Stewart was a massive reach at 27 so we probably weren't thinking he'd be gone by then. we may have looked to take him with out 39. Remember we traded up to that 39 also.

There's too many variables to say what should have happened. Hindsight is great isn't it though.

But that gets back to my point, because we never nominated we will never know

Simple question, who would u prefer. Stewart or Ramsay

 

[Apex36]

U clearly dont understand. We nominate what we think his worth, the market dictates what his worth is if a club bids.
We didnt nominate, no club had to bid.
We didnt even test the waters
Mistake on our behalf

That's not how it works. If you nominate, you don't nominate what he's worth. By nominating a player the club is making a commitment to the said player. If another club bids, we have the option to match. If no club bids, we are obliged to take the player with our final pick.
The club went to the draft intending to only use 4 picks. If Hine had rated Stewart at pick 38 or earlier, I'm sure he would have nominated him. As it is, it looks like Hine had him rated around the same time as most pundits, which was 3rd to fourth round. Therefore, if we nominated Stewart and he was not bid on before pick 38, we would have been obliged to use a 5th pick, which was not in our plans.

Whether Hine got it wrong about Stewarts talent is a seperate argument, but the reasoning behind not nominating him was sound.

For what it's worth, I think Stewart would have been a good pick up at 38, but such is life. Hine isn't perfect, but he is still one of the best recruiters in the league. I can forgive stuff ups on speculative picks if he keeps unearthing gems like Langdon and Marsh.

 

[ksardog]

yeah look they were probably on par maybe over the year. Dont forget Goldsack was being lauded for his defensive work in the fwd 50 early in the season.

Pfft, who was lauding him, certainly wasnt me.

Supporters hav a better idea than most media because they watch all the games