Snoops Annual Player Review, List and Draft Strategy

[ksardog]

That's not how it works. If you nominate, you don't nominate what he's worth. By nominating a player the club is making a commitment to the said player. If another club bids, we have the option to match. If no club bids, we are obliged to take the player with our final pick.
The club went to the draft intending to only use 4 picks. If Hine had rated Stewart at pick 38 or earlier, I'm sure he would have nominated him. As it is, it looks like Hine had him rated around the same time as most pundits, which was 3rd to fourth round. Therefore, if we nominated Stewart and he was not bid on before pick 38, we would have been obliged to use a 5th pick, which was not in our plans.

Whether Hine got it wrong about Stewarts talent is a seperate argument, but the reasoning behind not nominating him was sound.

For what it's worth, I think Stewart would have been a good pick up at 38, but such is life. Hine isn't perfect, but he is still one of the best recruiters in the league. I can forgive stuff ups on speculative picks if he keeps unearthing gems like Langdon and Marsh.

I know that , we would hav an idea of what WE think hes worth, INTERNALLY AT THE CLUB , Ie late 2nd round early third rd etc, pointless telling other clubs that as they will undercut u

 

[ksardog]

That's not how it works. If you nominate, you don't nominate what he's worth. By nominating a player the club is making a commitment to the said player. If another club bids, we have the option to match. If no club bids, we are obliged to take the player with our final pick.
The club went to the draft intending to only use 4 picks. If Hine had rated Stewart at pick 38 or earlier, I'm sure he would have nominated him. As it is, it looks like Hine had him rated around the same time as most pundits, which was 3rd to fourth round. Therefore, if we nominated Stewart and he was not bid on before pick 38, we would have been obliged to use a 5th pick, which was not in our plans.

Whether Hine got it wrong about Stewarts talent is a seperate argument, but the reasoning behind not nominating him was sound.

For what it's worth, I think Stewart would have been a good pick up at 38, but such is life. Hine isn't perfect, but he is still one of the best recruiters in the league. I can forgive stuff ups on speculative picks if he keeps unearthing gems like Langdon and Marsh.

Look im a massive wrap for derek hine, we all make mistakes. This just happened to be one of them.

i prefer people to own their mistakes than make excuses for them.

Nominating him would not of hurt us one bit

 

[Pendles!]

But that gets back to my point, because we never nominated we will never know

Simple question, who would u prefer. Stewart or Ramsay

You don't know what discussions were made around the point, so it's hard to know exactly why they made that decision.

It's a stupid question because that was not the choice.

 

[ksardog]

You don't know what discussions were made around the point, so it's hard to know exactly why they made that decision.

It's a stupid question because that was not the choice.

Stupid question? How u figure?

We had of nominated stewart we may hav got him at 38, but we will never know because we didnt for some stupid reason

In the end we chose not to nominate stewart therefore in the end we chose to go with anyone apart from him who was next on our ratings list.

Wonder if stewart was there at 38 if we would of taken him, if so, we made a mistake

Stewart will be better ( far better ) than ramsay. Nothing against ramsay but a good tall is always more valuable

PS i hope ramsay has a fantastic career at the pies

 

[Knightmare]

yeah he may be one that slipped through but to be fair to the club he wasnt very dominant that year and really struggled through champs. In fact I dont think many had Jimmy in their first, second or even thrid round calcs and I know a few people were surprised GWS took him that early. Clearly they saw what others didnt.

I think if you had lined most people up and said if you could have 3 of Grundy, broomhead, Kennedy and Stewart most (including myself) would have done what the club did. Be interested in Knightmare view as he was wathcing him as well.

In terms of getting him back? I would be telling him GWS cant possibly fit Boyd, Cameron, Patton, McCarthy and himself into a fwd 50 structure. Whether the club has burnt their britches with him am not sure.

i'd give them something like Lumumba, Blair, 2nd round pick, Josh Thomas. lumumba and 2nd round for Stewart and Sumner?

Stewart in his draft year just didn't find enough of the footy. He played deep forward and tried to play like Cloke trying to play like a power forward but without the strength to do it. It was hard to watch, but there were glimpses of talent with his athleticism, footskills and ability to play up the ground.

We could have gone either way with Stewart and still have been ok with it. In 2012 and today I slightly prefer Stewart to Ramsay but I'm not so high on Stewart that I would make a trade for him unless it's for a Sinclair, Armstrong, Oxley, Blair, Dwyer or Ramsay - and it's probably unlikely GWS make any of those trades. Perhaps of those they might consider Blair but even then still questionable.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Great write up Snoop Dog Interested to see whether Karnezis steps up next year also.

One thing I would like to hear from you, obviously from a guy who sees alot more games both VFL and AFL is how our coaching staff performed this year.

 

[ksardog]

Stewart in his draft year just didn't find enough of the footy. He played deep forward and tried to play like Cloke trying to play like a power forward but without the strength to do it. It was hard to watch, but there were glimpses of talent with his athleticism, footskills and ability to play up the ground.

We could have gone either way with Stewart and still have been ok with it. In 2012 and today I slightly prefer Stewart to Ramsay but I'm not so high on Stewart that I would make a trade for him unless it's for a Sinclair, Armstrong, Oxley, Blair, Dwyer or Ramsay - and it's probably unlikely GWS make any of those trades. Perhaps of those they might consider Blair but even then still questionable.

I think they would laugh at us if we offered blair for stewart, because if we can do that it should be done. Wont happen

 

[Gone Critical]

Biggest fails this year have been the failure to get Scharenberg and Freeman on the park.

Disgraceful management of the injuries.

Why didn't the club ensure Scharenberg was operated on as soon as he was drafted instead of wait for the season to commence?

Why did the club not allow Freeman's hamstring to heal properly on the first occasion?

Sorry this just isn't true. Surgery is not a cure all and carries risks. In most cases if you can try conservative non surgical treatment 1st that is the route to take. On 1st principles the docs were right to treat Scharenberg without surgery in the 1st instance.

As for surmising whether Scharenberg and Freeman were handled correctly you would need a large body of medical knowledge and all the particulars of their cases to know whether there were any problems with their management. Unless you have that knowledge and information you cannot make a judgement

 

[Vicky Park]

Interesting.....I would think Tyson finishes higher in the Copeland but granted its not likely either will be top 10 and won't be much in it but I would think Tyson was better. Goldy was pretty good early.

Goldy was very good early in the season. I recall an interview with him on AFL360 or On the Couch, where he was described as leading the league-wide stats for pressure acts. He was playing like a man possessed in the first third-half of the season, and his dropping away from that form was yet another factor in our slide down the ladder. Was possibly around that time that Goldy and his manager started thinking he was worth more $$$. Cant blame him for that.

 

[Knightmare]

I think they would laugh at us if we offered blair for stewart, because if we can do that it should be done. Wont happen

It's no guarantee Collingwood would offer Blair (a regular in the best team for the past 5 seasons and a premiership player) for a development project in Stewart.

Stewart still has scope to develop but it's not yet clear he will become an AFL quality player. Still up in the air until he is and still needs more time before he becomes even acceptable depth.

It's only his mix of traits and his improvement over the season that doesn't make me say no outright to Stewart.

 

[ksardog]

It's no guarantee Collingwood would offer Blair (a regular in the best team for the past 5 seasons and a premiership player) for a development project in Stewart.

Stewart still has scope to develop but it's not yet clear he will become an AFL quality player. Still up in the air until he is and still needs more time before he becomes even acceptable depth.

It's only his mix of traits and his improvement over the season that doesn't make me say no outright to Stewart.

Ok, your list manager. Would u trade blair for stewart?

Yes or no

No provisos, straight swap

I think u know where i stand on the matter

 

[Pendles!]

Stupid question? How u figure?

We had of nominated stewart we may hav got him at 38, but we will never know because we didnt for some stupid reason

In the end we chose not to nominate stewart therefore in the end we chose to go with anyone apart from him who was next on our ratings list.

Wonder if stewart was there at 38 if we would of taken him, if so, we made a mistake

Stewart will be better ( far better ) than ramsay. Nothing against ramsay but a good tall is always more valuable

PS i hope ramsay has a fantastic career at the pies

Because that's such a simple way of looking at it. That's not what the choice was at the time when the decision needed to be made to /choose pass on him.

In any case, Stewart has played 3 games!! Did you even watch him play? He's far from even being a sure thing of an okay player! Nothing to lose sleep about just yet. If he's dominating in 2 years time then it's time to review the decision.

 

[ksardog]

Because that's such a simple way of looking at it. That's not what the choice was at the time when the decision needed to be made to /choose pass on him.

In any case, Stewart has played 3 games!! Did you even watch him play? He's far from even being a sure thing of an okay player! Nothing to lose sleep about just yet. If he's dominating in 2 years time then it's time to review the decision.

Yes ive seen him play and raised the issue of getting him back before the weekends game so im not jumping on board.

Agree to disagree because u r doing my head in

 

[Knightmare]

Ok, your list manager. Would u trade blair for stewart?

Yes or no

No provisos, straight swap

I think u know where i stand on the matter

I'd prefer to trade Blair for Jeff Garlett but failing that I would have no problem with a Blair for Stewart trade as I don't see Blair as a part of our best side.
It's just not clear Collingwood have the same view on Blair as you or I may.

 

[ksardog]

I'd prefer to trade Blair for Jeff Garlett but failing that I would have no problem with a Blair for Stewart trade as I don't see Blair as a part of our best side.
It's just not clear Collingwood have the same view on Blair as you or I may.

The club (buckley) loves blair so it would never happen. GWS wouldnt let it happen.

I would do it in a heartbeat. Broomhead and kennedy can easily do blairs role and actually impact the scoreboard in the process

I guess im extra frustrated because being able to hav moore and stewart at either end of the ground, also interchangeable would hav been a massive bonus for the next ten years

 

[Anzacday]

Time to move, what's done is done

 

[Pendles!]

Yes ive seen him play and raised the issue of getting him back before the weekends game so im not jumping on board.

Agree to disagree because u r doing my head in

Likewise...

 

[Buckley is my hero]

The club (buckley) loves blair so it would never happen. GWS wouldnt let it happen.

I would do it in a heartbeat. Broomhead and kennedy can easily do blairs role and actually impact the scoreboard in the process

I guess im extra frustrated because being able to hav moore and stewart at either end of the ground, also interchangeable would hav been a massive bonus for the next ten years

The reality is that GWS has invested in Stewart and they won't do a deal to do a straight swap with Blair. Similarly Carlton won't do a deal to swap Garlett with Blair. They will want greater compensation. I would be loath to give up any draft picks to get Garlett. This draft is a very even draft. We need to keep all our draft picks.

 

[ksardog]

The reality is that GWS has invested in Stewart and they won't do a deal to do a straight swap with Blair. Similarly Carlton won't do a deal to swap Garlett with Blair. They will want greater compensation. I would be loath to give up any draft picks to get Garlett. This draft is a very even draft. We need to keep all our draft picks.

I never raised the swap between blair and stewart ( nor gartlett ) Knightmare did, almost fell off my chair when he did.

No way if i was GWS i would swap stewart for blair. But as he did i then asked who he preferred

 

[Buckley is my hero]

I never raised the swap between blair and stewart ( nor gartlett ) Knightmare did, almost fell off my chair when he did.

No way if i was GWS i would swap stewart for blair. But as he did i then asked who he preferred

Then this whole discussion with Stewart is pointless. We need to move on to more realistic scenarios involving players we have a realistic chance of acquiring. Since we are unlikely to obtain any players through swaps or free agency, any better than those we got in the last two years (White, Armstrong etc.), the only way to improve the list is through the draft.

 

[ksardog]

Then this whole discussion with Stewart is pointless. We need to move on to more realistic scenarios involving players we have a realistic chance of acquiring. Since we are unlikely to obtain any players through swaps or free agency, any better than those we got in the last two years (White, Armstrong etc.), the only way to improve the list is through the draft.

I would trade for stewart, a lot will depend on who bids for moore and what pick we hav to use on him.

Its all up in the air until then, because no one knows what we r bargaining with re picks

 

[Apex36]

Look im a massive wrap for derek hine, we all make mistakes. This just happened to be one of them.

i prefer people to own their mistakes than make excuses for them.

Nominating him would not of hurt us one bit

If we nominated him we would have possibly had to delist an extra player to make room for him, or taken one less rookie which would have put our salary cap under pressure.
There's a good chance that even if we did nominate him Hine would have passed with pick 38 anyway, given he didn't rate him as a second rounder.
Regardless, we're going around in circles here. Let's just agree that we all wish we had gotten Stewart instead of Ramsay and this was one of Hines rare misjudgements.

 

[ksardog]

If we nominated him we would have possibly had to delist an extra player to make room for him, or taken one less rookie which would have put our salary cap under pressure.
There's a good chance that even if we did nominate him Hine would have passed with pick 38 anyway, given he didn't rate him as a second rounder.
Regardless, we're going around in circles here. Let's just agree that we all wish we had gotten Stewart instead of Ramsay and this was one of Hines rare misjudgements.

Finally

 

[Pendles!]

Jackson Allan was delisted by GC today Snoop, what's your thoughts on him?

Seems to have pretty good foot skills and was rated by their supporters..

 

[Snoop Dog]

Freeman is an interesting case. Scharenberg was never going to play this year, we all knew that when we drafted him. The ACL is just bad luck. However being of the opinion that there was no point him playing in the VFL this year is the only thing that annoys me because sadly, the people in this opinion was right.

Personally I think you have to play them and get experience and football into them. Just a shocking situation really. If they'd kept him out of the VFL maybe would have done it in the preseason.