Turnbull's Innovation Nation w@nkery

[WA ROO]

You just shattered my mental picture of you.

What,you didn't picture a shaved headed,bearded,tattooed,50yr old bogan?

With a wife,kids,job and a mortgage

 

[blackcat]

Thornley had a pretty soft hide. In 2006 he was parachuted into the 2nd spot on the Southern Metro, and the final MLC came down to a battle between Thornley and the third Liberal candidate. When the final count was being done at Jeff's Shed, Thornley stayed in his car in the underground car park until he knew he won.

Then he showed his gratitude by leaving politics in 2008.

and he went to his second future business, Looksmart and Better Place, and I think the value of Better Place once had him in front of the Lowy's and Pratts and the Metricon guy Harry Trigbuboff or whatever, and placed him just behind Packer... says a lot on Nasdaq wealth. And the MCkinsey consultants... 2 businesses down the $hitter, stilll have about 100mill in his pocket, but burnt significant multiples on that with his management, mebbe a conservative billion he has burnt... @medasula like that rent seeking?

where is meds? has he changed his sig/handle? oh, edit, i spelled medusula, evo was right indeed

 

[blackcat]

Meds overlooks German unions.

and meds knows competitive advantage and comparative advantage and there is something organic in a native culture that allows the business enterprise model like in germany, US, israel, to spontaneously combust[sic]. that, we cant confect. we can release handcuffs and restrictions however, I will give you that. And like MA attests, unions are not necessarily an anchor. Meds, it was PJK hand to hand with Kelty the human jumper, with the 80s accords and deregulation... and you can still see him on Friday having lunch with Ian Collins at University Cafe on Friday, and he will usually be talking to the old maitre'd there about the weekends games, and he is a carlton fan the uni cafe restaurant maitre'd

 

[MaddAdam]

and meds knows competitive advantage and comparative advantage and there is something organic in a native culture that allows the business enterprise model like in germany, US, israel, to spotaneously combust[sic]. that, we cant confect. we can release handcuffs and restrictions however, I will give you that. And like MA attests, unions are not necessarily an anchor. Meds, it was PJK hand to hand with Kelty the human jumper, with the 80s accords and deregulation... and you can still see him on Friday having lunch with Ian Collins at University Cafe on Friday, and he will usually be talking to the old maitre'd there about the weekends games, and he is a carlton fan the uni cafe restaurant maitre'd

Ze Germans also have the Mittelstadt

 

[medusala]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. You know the SNP had been in power for about 15 months when it happened. Such amazing power! In a parliament that didn't even have control over most levels.

It was London City boy floggery that bought it down and everybody knows it.

What about Northern Rock?

Salmond wrote a lovely letter in support. Northern Rock went under due to property lending, again NOTHING to do with city traders.

You are completely wrong on this, the only ones that can be blamed are a few high yield traders at RBS but it was the takeover of ABN that brought them down.

 

[Collingwoodity]

I'm sure though you wouldn't advocate a black a white rule against trading insolvent. You would probably even know a few jurisdiction where it works well and we have a precedent model that we can replicate.

I also agree and accept our insolvency rules and even our corporations act should be improved to stop dodgy operators.

Is it possible the issue isn't insolvency but corrupt elements in business? It's effectively fraud and should be treated as such (whether solvency is an issue or not, rather than focusing on the insolvency issue).

Of course.

But only a Supreme or Federal Court can determine who intentionally trades whilst insolvent. The costs involved to commencing a claim are prohibitive. Furthermore, since the money has been blown or transferred into a spouse's name by the "embezzling" directors, there is absolutely no financial motivation to issue legal proceedings in the Supreme or Federal Court.

ASIC is the body that actually maintains and monitors these (mal)practices but asking them to do something is like shovelling dirt up a steep hill. Plus, ASIC are susceptible to adverse costs orders if they lose a Court action, they are very tentative to take the matter on and ban an individual from being a director.

The directors know this and the practice of insolvent trading within Australia is rife.

It encourages poor business practices and discourages honest business/trading.

Personally I would prefer if:

1. There were two Pty Ltd companies:

A. Pty Ltda which trades in its current form and its directors are aware that they cannot trade whilst insolvent.
B. Pty Ltdb which trades in the proposed form with safe-harbour provisions, its directors may trade whilst insolvent and all trading partners are aware
that the money/stock traded may not be recoverable.

2. ASIC is no longer susceptible to adverse costs orders when applying to Court to ban an individual from being a director.

3. If a director of a Pty Ltda company is found to have traded whilst insolvent, that individual is subject to a mandatory ban from being a director for 3
years.

 

[Power Raid]

Of course.

But only a Supreme or Federal Court can determine who intentionally trades whilst insolvent. The costs involved to commencing a claim are prohibitive. Furthermore, since the money has been blown or transferred into a spouse's name by the "embezzling" directors, there is absolutely no financial motivation to issue legal proceedings in the Supreme or Federal Court.

ASIC is the body that actually maintains and monitors these (mal)practices but asking them to do something is like shovelling dirt up a steep hill. Plus, ASIC are susceptible to adverse costs orders if they lose a Court action, they are very tentative to take the matter on and ban an individual from being a director.

The directors know this and the practice of insolvent trading within Australia is rife.

It encourages poor business practices and discourages honest business/trading.

Personally I would prefer if:

1. There were two Pty Ltd companies:

A. Pty Ltda which trades in its current form and its directors are aware that they cannot trade whilst insolvent.
B. Pty Ltdb which trades in the proposed form with safe-harbour provisions, its directors may trade whilst insolvent and all trading partners are aware
that the money/stock traded may not be recoverable.

2. ASIC is no longer susceptible to adverse costs orders when applying to Court to ban an individual from being a director.

3. If a director of a Pty Ltda company is found to have traded whilst insolvent, that individual is subject to a mandatory ban from being a director for 3
years.

I would add ASIC are an incompetent organisation and should simply buy rope to hang themselves. They are box tickers and have no commercial awareness and zero nose for those organisations with corrupt management vs management with integrity.

Perhaps they should hire ex-commercial guys who can point ASIC in the right direction and explain what they are looking at. Just imagine if they had guys like yourself and other skills sets at hand that actually could see what the real purpose of a transaction was or the ability to scratch behind a transaction and see who was on the other side.

MUPPETS!

 

[medusala]

Don't think we will really ever know the true health of the economy.

Agreed. Its all lies.

You simply cant trust this government (or indeed any of them). Nearly everything we are told re debt, inflation, Swans joke future surplus estimates etc is blatant crap.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-11/australian-media-throws-all-over-stellar-jobs-report-again

A fall in the unemployment rate from 6.2 per cent to 5.9 per cent in the space of one month? Be sceptical. Treat with extreme caution.

Nearly 60,000 jobs created in Australia last month? A fall in the jobless rate in Victoria of 0.7 percentage points? Predictably, the numbers moved markets. Yet the seasonally adjusted labour force estimates from the Australian Bureau of Statistics for October sound incredible and they should be treated as just that: not credible.

There were 44,640 minutes in October and, if you accept the estimate, 58,600 jobs were created. As the Age's economics editor Peter Martin points out, count only normal business hours, and that equates to 5.5 workers being hired each minute of the working day.

And then, two days ago, when everyone was expecting Australian "jobs" to come back to earth, Australia comedian statisticians decided to shock and awe everyone by doubling down on grotesque economic "data" when the reported that in November, when consensus expected a drop of 10,000 jobs, the Australian economy "added" 71,400 jobs, the most in 15 years (this coming at a time when Australia's biggest customer is going through a hard landing), the US equivalent of 1 million jobs in one month.

The number was so ludicrous, it was not just a 6 sigma outlier: it was an 8 sigma!

Even the economist known as "Mr Sunshine", Craig James of Commsec, is not buying it. "It's hard to believe that almost 60,000 jobs were created in one month with 40,000 of these jobs in full-time positions," was his response

 

[Maggie5]

Agreed. Its all lies.

You simply cant trust this government (or indeed any of them). Nearly everything we are told re debt, inflation, Swans joke future surplus estimates etc is blatant crap.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-11/australian-media-throws-all-over-stellar-jobs-report-again

A fall in the unemployment rate from 6.2 per cent to 5.9 per cent in the space of one month? Be sceptical. Treat with extreme caution.

Nearly 60,000 jobs created in Australia last month? A fall in the jobless rate in Victoria of 0.7 percentage points? Predictably, the numbers moved markets. Yet the seasonally adjusted labour force estimates from the Australian Bureau of Statistics for October sound incredible and they should be treated as just that: not credible.

There were 44,640 minutes in October and, if you accept the estimate, 58,600 jobs were created. As the Age's economics editor Peter Martin points out, count only normal business hours, and that equates to 5.5 workers being hired each minute of the working day.

And then, two days ago, when everyone was expecting Australian "jobs" to come back to earth, Australia comedian statisticians decided to shock and awe everyone by doubling down on grotesque economic "data" when the reported that in November, when consensus expected a drop of 10,000 jobs, the Australian economy "added" 71,400 jobs, the most in 15 years (this coming at a time when Australia's biggest customer is going through a hard landing), the US equivalent of 1 million jobs in one month.

The number was so ludicrous, it was not just a 6 sigma outlier: it was an 8 sigma!

Even the economist known as "Mr Sunshine", Craig James of Commsec, is not buying it. "It's hard to believe that almost 60,000 jobs were created in one month with 40,000 of these jobs in full-time positions," was his response

Not quite sure where I read it but if I find it will post.
Was regarding ABS and the shonky way they produce unemployment figures.

 

[medusala]

Not quite sure where I read it but if I find it will post.
Was regarding ABS and the shonky way they produce unemployment figures.

Maggie, its been that way for ages, the deficit estimates from Treasury have long been a joke, as has them hiding costs like NBN, ditto inflation and unemployment.

Libs / labour - doesn't matter. you are being lied to by them on just about everything. The worst of all was claims re fiscal stimulus and avoiding recession, an extraordinarily pathetic and easily disproved lie. Yet some people choose to believe it.

And its hardly Australia, Obama has huge form re economic stats as did Gordon Brown in the uk (even blatantly changed how inflation was calculated to make it look lower so he could pay less pension / welfare increases),

NB just as guilty as the pollies are the journos who go along with these lies with a few exceptions.

 

[Maggie5]

Maggie, its been that way for ages, the deficit estimates from Treasury have long been a joke, as has them hiding costs like NBN, ditto inflation and unemployment.

Libs / labour - doesn't matter. you are being lied to by them on just about everything. The worst of all was claims re fiscal stimulus and avoiding recession, an extraordinarily pathetic and easily disproved lie. Yet some people choose to believe it.

And its hardly Australia, Obama has huge form re economic stats as did Gordon Brown in the uk (even blatantly changed how inflation was calculated to make it look lower so he could pay less pension / welfare increases),

NB just as guilty as the pollies are the journos who go along with these lies with a few exceptions.

I am becoming more disillusioned by politics every day, not that my vote in HoR makes much difference living in a safe Labor seat, Wills. Dickhead too.

Another reason why it is sad that the media is now so focussed on quick grabs they don't have time to hold them to account.

Are there any honest politicians left?

 

[medusala]

Are there any honest politicians left?

There was an interesting story in the press when the Tories came to power. An aide to the pm asked a department head how many people worked in the a particular department. The public servant refused to provide an answer and generally frustrated everything the person tried to do.

Politicians rely on ps advice. Often that advice is wrong or blatant lies. Not always easy for pollies to tell. Yet they cop the blame while the faceless public servants who are extremely hard to sack, just keep on despite all their errors.

A case in point is Wayne Swan, a chap who would struggle to beat Wayne Rooney in trivial pursuit. As big a fool as he is surely it was just a case of him swallowing the treasury line and not having the necessary IQ to challenge what he was being told.

 

[Maggie5]

There was an interesting story in the press when the Tories came to power. An aide to the pm asked a department head how many people worked in the a particular department. The public servant refused to provide an answer and generally frustrated everything the person tried to do.

Politicians rely on ps advice. Often that advice is wrong or blatant lies. Not always easy for pollies to tell. Yet they cop the blame while the faceless public servants who are extremely hard to sack, just keep on despite all their errors.

A case in point is Wayne Swan, a chap who would struggle to beat Wayne Rooney in trivial pursuit. As big a fool as he is surely it was just a case of him swallowing the treasury line and not having the necessary IQ to challenge what he was being told.

Interesting. One of the reasons I liked Keating was because he spent quite a bit of time with PS in Treasury and by the time he became Treasurer he seemed to be better informed.

 

[smokingjacket]

Manufacturing a non starter in Oz due to unions. We would also as per Germany need to churn out far more tradies rather than our current approach of producing an army of Arts grads with very little (being very generous) to the business community.

Australia has a shite load of tradies. They're all employed in the construction sector that contributes a much larger portion to growth in Australia, than in Europe.

You're always banging on about useless Arts degrees. At least that's a traditional education in ethics and critical thinking. You can take these skills in to the new economy. The real travesty is useless, unnecessary Commerce degrees for mountains of accountants, dead end brokers and low level money shufflers. If you want to talk about inefficiency and churn...

 

[medusala]

You're always banging on about useless Arts degrees. At least that's a traditional education in ethics and critical thinking

Smoking jacket or pot?

You can take these skills in to the new economy

Such as? How does arts teach critical thinking? It most certainly didn't when I did a few subjects. Being given your exam questions didn't exactly make life hard.

 

[medusala]

Interesting. One of the reasons I liked Keating was because he spent quite a bit of time with PS in Treasury and by the time he became Treasurer he seemed to be better informed.

Much of that due to John Edwards apparently. Keating fell out badly with Stone. Bernie Fraser never gave the impression of being much of an original or independent thinker.

http://www.dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/events/2007/07taylor_leeson.pdf

Labor Party Treasurer Paul
Keating (Prime Minister after December 1991) boasted “I have Treasury in my
pocket, the Reserve Bank [of Australia] in my pocket, wages policy in my pocket, the
financial community both here and overseas in my pocket” (7 Dec 1990).

 

[smokingjacket]

Smoking jacket or pot?

Such as? How does arts teach critical thinking? It most certainly didn't when I did a few subjects. Being given your exam questions didn't exactly make life hard.

I'll give you that the courses and framework these days are a bit of a mess and no doubt you come across some pretty insulated opinions but the whole point of an Arts degree is to have the skills to analyze and think critically in the field you've chosen, whether that be Political Science or Literature.

I studied in the Arts, initially I just tacked it on for the sake of it but with time it became my most useful piece of paper.

 

[medusala]

I'll give you that the courses and framework these days are a bit of a mess and no doubt you come across some pretty insulated opinions but the whole point of an Arts degree is to have the skills to analyze and think critically in the field you've chosen, whether that be Political Science or Literature.

The problem is all the crap course like gender studies or The Master of Peace and Conflict Studies.

They are just dross and employers give no credence to them. Tanya Plibersek a great example, BA in communications. About as useful as a fly wire door on a submarine. Ditto Wayne Swan and public administration, Kim Carr, Kate Ellis (all too hard for the poor petal, couldn't finish) etc etc.

A far cry from a decent degree like that obtained by Boris

#geniusvsdross

I studied in the Arts, initially I just tacked it on for the sake of it but with time it became my most useful piece of paper

I did three arts subjects. Marvellous stuff, didn't have to bother with lectures, got told exam questions and was virtually guaranteed a credit at worst.

 

[medusala]

Meds overlooks German unions.

hardly, they accepted real wage cuts. See German wage growth vs rest of EU over the last ten / fifteen years.

The graph says it all

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/05/business/german-union-gives-opening-for-wage-cuts.html?_r=0

FRANKFURT, June 4— A union representing Germany's 600,000 chemical workers agreed today to a contract that opens the possibility for troubled companies to reduce wages by 10 percent.

The new contract, which covers about 1,700 companies and also includes such giants as Hoechst A.G., BASF and Bayer A.G., was a surprising bow toward workplace flexibility in a country that has lost more than a million jobs in five years. The wage reductions, and other concessions, would be intended to prevent job losses

 

[MaddAdam]

Exactly my point, the German unions are very effective.

 

[medusala]

Exactly my point, the German unions are very effective.

I don't think many Australian unions would agree that negotiating no real wage increases over ten years is being very effective. Completely different attitude, German unions would rather save jobs, Oz unions would rather see businesses go to the wall and negotiate redundancy packages.

see below re hartz iv.

http://www.voxeu.org/article/german-labour-reforms-unpopular-success

 

[Power Raid]

I don't think many Australian unions would agree that negotiating no real wage increases over ten years is being very effective. Completely different attitude, German unions would rather save jobs, Oz unions would rather see businesses go to the wall and negotiate redundancy packages.

see below re hartz iv.

http://www.voxeu.org/article/german-labour-reforms-unpopular-success

Perhaps, I don't know, but perhaps German unions are not infiltrated by criminals.

That might explain the different culture and rationality. Perhaps Germany has unions that actually fulfil their important role and serve with integrity.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Perhaps, I don't know, but perhaps German unions are not infiltrated by criminals.

That might explain the different culture and rationality. Perhaps Germany has unions that actually fulfil their important role and serve with integrity.

Perhaps German business aren't run by same types we get here that think they need to fight the union and workers.

 

[The Punter]

No, it's their fault!

 

[madmug]

Perhaps, I don't know, but perhaps German unions are not infiltrated by criminals.

That might explain the different culture and rationality. Perhaps Germany has unions that actually fulfil their important role and serve with integrity.

Perhaps some of their politicians do too. However it seems some of their business practises show their business ethics are perhaps as bad as ours, VOLKSWAGEN!

I see some of our union bosses in the RC dock. & rightly too, but why not some of the scum tax evaders & corrupt pricks who pose as pillars of society in the dock next to them.?

Hang 'em high!