Analysis Depth Chart/Best 22

[mopsy]

Good points. I sort of agree. But I also reckon that you overstate the importance of 'natural' players. Ty is a good forward, and could well be a very good AFL KPF. I understand what you mean by him not being natural, compared to JR. But watching him at his best is to see a quality smart KPF. JR is special. However, overall I reckon it is better to look at increasing the variety and quality of roles that the squad can play. Often specialized roles are reliant on specific individuals - rucks especially. For other positions that are associated with certain individuals to me it is often more that certain individuals, JR for example, are much better at the array of roles required. Because a KPF usually stands alone in their position, they stand out. But it is quite possible to have decent, non-natural, KPFs playing in premiership winning teams. they just play their role and around them are special players that kick the goals. As you say we have similar views, just I see you focusing too much IMHO in individuals rather than looking at the roles possible of being played.

On our tall forwards, I reckon that this is just more opportunistic, and future draft and trade oriented. Decent quality KPFs are much more valuable than mids of a similar quality, for example. So we have too many KPFs, of some talent (only one JR though). I wouldn't be surprised if we traded out one of them end 2016. A young but relatively developed KPF is worth quite a lot to many teams. So I suspect we are just stocking them up on the basis that if we have too many quality KPFs (following good development) we can't really lose. If they don't come through then we move them on. Most KPFs come into their maturity in the mid 20's. Looks to have happened to TV, hopefully will to Griff. McBean has real talent, but is it AFL??? McKenzie has talent, but needs work to get the AFL level. Just keep trying to develop them. if needed trade them on for as much as possible. Comparatively a HBF of similar ability is worth little. Thus if a talented kid is available at a lower pick (mcBean, McKenzie) we take them.

Personally i dont think Vickery a good player at all. Same goes for Griffiths. Imo they just don't perform the two primary roles of kp and ruck well enough. Vickery does not do a lot of the things that comes naturally to key forwards hence he struggles in a lot of areas. That is just my opinion and i don't expect people to agree.
Because i don't rate these two, and have serious doubts about McBean, what good is a 200cm forward who cant take a grab in the air. I think we need to do much more than we have done in bringing in tall forwards.
If you want a discussion on Vickery based on his attributes and overall performances and how well he has performed his ROLES i am happy to oblige, for now i will leave it at that.

I am not sure i have over stated anything, It certainly seems to me the best forwards in the main are natural forwards both tall and small, Most talls and some smalls are not expected to perform other roles except in a limited capacity. Of course you may get some exceptions.
Cloke, Walker, Riewoldt, Riewoldt, Hawkins, Brown, Daniher on potential, Hogan on potential, Schulz, Roughead, Petrie, Gunston, Kennedy, Cameron, Lynch, Franklin, Darling, Boyd on potential. Of all these players it is only really Roughy and Petrie who have had decent stints in the ruck but with Franklin gone and the dominance of Goldstein and the introduction of B Brown these two and the others are almost permanent fwd half players.
I envisage the B Brown role for Vickery or Griffiths that being a #2 ruckman spending significant time as the third tall forward. Neither of them perform the #1 ruck or kpf well enough to be given these roles imo.


Just about every clubs better key forwards are natural forwards who spend little time performing other roles out of the forward line.They are just too valuable to play else where. They all play different and all have differing roles within their fwd halves. Some hit up the ground and double back, Some mostly stay in the fwd half, some constantly crash packs, some have ruck duties some are decoys to create space, some do most of these things and on it goes. Usually if they leave the forward half for any significant time it is to pinch hit in the ruck or just flood back to help out the defense when under siege.

I also believe it would not be too hard for us to upgrade our KPP stocks because we only have two top level kpps in Riewoldt/Rance. Imo there has been a great need to find more top level kpp's even before the current regime took over.

Finally of course i focus on individuals but i also focus on their attributes and what roles those attributes may enable them to play. I think we all have an expectation of most players being capable of performing several roles, imo they should be able to do at least one of those roles very well especially if one of those roles is integral to a teams success.

I know people are going to disagree but it is what i see and think.

 

[Livonski]

Personally i dont think Vickery a good player at all. Same goes for Griffiths. Imo they just don't perform the two primary roles of kp and ruck well enough. Vickery does not do a lot of the things that comes naturally to key forwards hence he struggles in a lot of areas. That is just my opinion and i don't expect people to agree.
Because i don't rate these two, and have serious doubts about McBean, what good is a 200cm forward who cant take a grab in the air. I think we need to do much more than we have done in bringing in tall forwards.
If you want a discussion on Vickery based on his attributes and overall performances and how well he has performed his ROLES i am happy to oblige, for now i will leave it at that.

I am not sure i have over stated anything, It certainly seems to me the best forwards in the main are natural forwards both tall and small, Most talls and some smalls are not expected to perform other roles except in a limited capacity. Of course you may get some exceptions.
Cloke, Walker, Riewoldt, Riewoldt, Hawkins, Brown, Daniher on potential, Hogan on potential, Schulz, Roughead, Petrie, Gunston, Kennedy, Cameron, Lynch, Franklin, Darling, Boyd on potential. Of all these players it is only really Roughy and Petrie who have had decent stints in the ruck but with Franklin gone and the dominance of Goldstein and the introduction of B Brown these two and the others are almost permanent fwd half players.
I envisage the B Brown role for Vickery or Griffiths that being a #2 ruckman spending significant time as the third tall forward. Neither of them perform the #1 ruck or kpf well enough to be given these roles imo.


Just about every clubs better key forwards are natural forwards who spend little time performing other roles out of the forward line.They are just too valuable to play else where. They all play different and all have differing roles within their fwd halves. Some hit up the ground and double back, Some mostly stay in the fwd half, some constantly crash packs, some have ruck duties some are decoys to create space, some do most of these things and on it goes. Usually if they leave the forward half for any significant time it is to pinch hit in the ruck or just flood back to help out the defense when under siege.

I also believe it would not be too hard for us to upgrade our KPP stocks because we only have two top level kpps in Riewoldt/Rance. Imo there has been a great need to find more top level kpp's even before the current regime took over.

Finally of course i focus on individuals but i also focus on their attributes and what roles those attributes may enable them to play. I think we all have an expectation of most players being capable of performing several roles, imo they should be able to do at least one of those roles very well especially if one of those roles is integral to a teams success.

I know people are going to disagree but it is what i see and think.

You argue well but I think you place too much on this notion of "natural forwards". Imo Cloke, n reiwoldt, for example are not. Goal sense? Nope. Cloke is just a man mountain that couldn't play anywhere else. Too slow no right side, s**t kick. Nick is just a superior athlete who out works his opponent. JR is a natural footballer and would succeed wherever he played. Just happens that he started fwd and is killing it. I could argue a few of the others eg Puopolo but you get my drift.
I get natural inside mids, outside runners etc but otherwise if you're a natural footballer you can play well either end of ground.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

Both Vickery and Griffiths in the same forwardline results in a lack of defensive pressure.
While Vickery isn't a natural forward he can take a good grab and is the closest thing we have to a physical presence also not a bad second ruck. Griffiths is still worth a shot at CHB imo, if the penny ever drops he could be the replacement for Chaplin we are looking for.
That leaves us short of a genuine mobile CHF who would allow Jack to play deep forward more often where he is at his most dangerous

 

[captain cotch 9]

We are building our depth. Players like Silk Ellis, Drummond, Mcbean, Markov, Broad should all be pushing for starting spots.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Personally i dont think Vickery a good player at all. Same goes for Griffiths. Imo they just don't perform the two primary roles of kp and ruck well enough. Vickery does not do a lot of the things that comes naturally to key forwards hence he struggles in a lot of areas. That is just my opinion and i don't expect people to agree.
Because i don't rate these two, and have serious doubts about McBean, what good is a 200cm forward who cant take a grab in the air. I think we need to do much more than we have done in bringing in tall forwards.
If you want a discussion on Vickery based on his attributes and overall performances and how well he has performed his ROLES i am happy to oblige, for now i will leave it at that.

I am not sure i have over stated anything, It certainly seems to me the best forwards in the main are natural forwards both tall and small, Most talls and some smalls are not expected to perform other roles except in a limited capacity. Of course you may get some exceptions.
Cloke, Walker, Riewoldt, Riewoldt, Hawkins, Brown, Daniher on potential, Hogan on potential, Schulz, Roughead, Petrie, Gunston, Kennedy, Cameron, Lynch, Franklin, Darling, Boyd on potential. Of all these players it is only really Roughy and Petrie who have had decent stints in the ruck but with Franklin gone and the dominance of Goldstein and the introduction of B Brown these two and the others are almost permanent fwd half players.
I envisage the B Brown role for Vickery or Griffiths that being a #2 ruckman spending significant time as the third tall forward. Neither of them perform the #1 ruck or kpf well enough to be given these roles imo.


Just about every clubs better key forwards are natural forwards who spend little time performing other roles out of the forward line.They are just too valuable to play else where. They all play different and all have differing roles within their fwd halves. Some hit up the ground and double back, Some mostly stay in the fwd half, some constantly crash packs, some have ruck duties some are decoys to create space, some do most of these things and on it goes. Usually if they leave the forward half for any significant time it is to pinch hit in the ruck or just flood back to help out the defense when under siege.

I also believe it would not be too hard for us to upgrade our KPP stocks because we only have two top level kpps in Riewoldt/Rance. Imo there has been a great need to find more top level kpp's even before the current regime took over.

Finally of course i focus on individuals but i also focus on their attributes and what roles those attributes may enable them to play. I think we all have an expectation of most players being capable of performing several roles, imo they should be able to do at least one of those roles very well especially if one of those roles is integral to a teams success.

I know people are going to disagree but it is what i see and think.

Let's agree to disagree. I reckon TV is a very capable, with the potential to be A grade. Only few actually reach and stay at their potential. So I wouldn't be surprised if he stays at the disappointing for his capability level. Griff looks to me like he really needs a bit of confidence and attitude. He has the tools. Where you see lack of talent, I see playing below their actual talent. There are only a few really good KPPs in the AFL. Many teams get by with simple role players rather than stars. So I accept your focus on individuals and mine on roles played by individuals.

The issue that comes from that is that when there are weaknesses you seem to see the need for entirely new players. Where I see the need for player development and maybe a new player to change the team set up to free someone with the specific role playing ability to move to our weakness. Just different lenses on team development and structure. When you are at the bottom they are fairly similar, because the good players that can play several roles to a high standard aren't there (hello Carlton ). As the team matures there are still holes. You see the need for new players, I don't necessarily. OK, different ways of thinking about the situation. The club seems closer to my way of viewing which makes you grumpy, and me comfortable(ish). Happy to close out on this discussion. No big issues, just different interpretations.

 

[JR82]

Vickery has averaged around 2 goals per game for the last 2 seasons, had he played full seasons in both yrs he'd have had better seasons that his breakout yr in '11. he'd be looked at far more positively

 

[captain cotch 9]

If Vickery can stay fitt and out of trouble he should easily kick 35+

 

[mopsy]

Let's agree to disagree. I reckon TV is a very capable, with the potential to be A grade. Only few actually reach and stay at their potential. So I wouldn't be surprised if he stays at the disappointing for his capability level. Griff looks to me like he really needs a bit of confidence and attitude. He has the tools. Where you see lack of talent, I see playing below their actual talent. There are only a few really good KPPs in the AFL. Many teams get by with simple role players rather than stars. So I accept your focus on individuals and mine on roles played by individuals.

The issue that comes from that is that when there are weaknesses you seem to see the need for entirely new players. Where I see the need for player development and maybe a new player to change the team set up to free someone with the specific role playing ability to move to our weakness. Just different lenses on team development and structure. When you are at the bottom they are fairly similar, because the good players that can play several roles to a high standard aren't there (hello Carlton ). As the team matures there are still holes. You see the need for new players, I don't necessarily. OK, different ways of thinking about the situation. The club seems closer to my way of viewing which makes you grumpy, and me comfortable(ish). Happy to close out on this discussion. No big issues, just different interpretations.

As i said on an awful lot of things we agree or are close to agreement and its degrees of difference on other things. On Vickery we are miles apart but thats okay we all have differing views on players.

Let me say though Tyrone has been around for 7 years and enters year 8. Rarely have i wanted us to delist tall players, mainly because imo we have never had enough of them. The last two seasons i would have been happy to trade out one of Vickery or Griffiths because i feel we have too many 200cm plus ruck/fwd types with McBean being developed in a similar vein.Then gone hard at a young kpf in the draft or trade.

My thinking on the lack of performance, imo of course, Of both Vickery and Griffiths as KPF'S, has been for the last two or three yrs now, lets get/find/try another quality kpf to partner Riewoldt and have one of Vickery or Griffiths play as the #2 ruckman spending good time fwd.
I have also wanted the other 200cm ruck/fwd in McBean developed as a KPD. We are never ever going to fit three 200cm blokes into the one fwd line it does not work for us with two.

I believe i have clearly looked at their performances their attributes and defined a different priority for them as far as roles go.We do need to be going hard for a top level key forward and none of these blokes are or will be imo. Both have been around for an inordinate amount of time for not a lot of return. We have not really had other options or enough eggs spread around enough baskets and thus have not really had the opportunity to try other options..

Riewoldt, Vickery, Griffiths are our three best tall forward options by miles. At the moment they are probably the only options for senior footy. To me that is concerning.
As stated i really don't think it would be too hard to improve our kpp stocks, It is patently clear we only have two top level kpps on our list in Jack and Alex.

I think where i differ from most when it comes to Vickery, Griffiths and McBean, is i make the distinction between blokes who are ruck/fwds who are capable of only doing both roles to an okay level.Compared to blokes who should be able to play kpf to a top level on almost a permanent basis. I am adamant you need two very good top level key fwds to be a top side.At the moment we just dont have them imo.

Any way we agree to disagree and that is what its about its been a good debate.

 

[Dr Tigris]

As i said on an awful lot of things we agree or are close to agreement and its degrees of difference on other things. On Vickery we are miles apart but thats okay we all have differing views on players.

Let me say though Tyrone has been around for 7 years and enters year 8. Rarely have i wanted us to delist tall players, mainly because imo we have never had enough of them. The last two seasons i would have been happy to trade out one of Vickery or Griffiths because i feel we have too many 200cm plus ruck/fwd types with McBean being developed in a similar vein.Then gone hard at a young kpf in the draft or trade.

My thinking on the lack of performance, imo of course, Of both Vickery and Griffiths as KPF'S, has been for the last two or three yrs now, lets get/find/try another quality kpf to partner Riewoldt and have one of Vickery or Griffiths play as the #2 ruckman spending good time fwd.
I have also wanted the other 200cm ruck/fwd in McBean developed as a KPD. We are never ever going to fit three 200cm blokes into the one fwd line it does not work for us with two.

I believe i have clearly looked at their performances their attributes and defined a different priority for them as far as roles go.We do need to be going hard for a top level key forward and none of these blokes are or will be imo. Both have been around for an inordinate amount of time for not a lot of return. We have not really had other options or enough eggs spread around enough baskets and thus have not really had the opportunity to try other options..

Riewoldt, Vickery, Griffiths are our three best tall forward options by miles. At the moment they are probably the only options for senior footy. To me that is concerning.
As stated i really don't think it would be too hard to improve our kpp stocks, It is patently clear we only have two top level kpps on our list in Jack and Alex.

I think where i differ from most when it comes to Vickery, Griffiths and McBean, is i make the distinction between blokes who are ruck/fwds who are capable of only doing both roles to an okay level.Compared to blokes who should be able to play kpf to a top level on almost a permanent basis. I am adamant you need two very good top level key fwds to be a top side.At the moment we just dont have them imo.

Any way we agree to disagree and that is what its about its been a good debate.

Good stuff.

Difference of viewpoint is worth having. Anyway, I reckon 2016 could be a year where a few players that show some capability stake claims to being true AFL quality. If guys like Conca, TV, Griff, Hampson, Yarran (IMHO he has not been AFL quality consistently so far), Moore, Townsend can step up we are so much better. And with youngsters like CEllis, Lennon, Menadue that could step up we have the potential for a great deal more depth. Hoping it all comes on well.

 

[Scullz85]

Backs Dylan Grimes Troy Chaplin Nathan Broard
HB Chris Yarran Alex Rance Nick Vlastuin
C. Kamdyn Mcintosh J Townsend Corey Ellis
HF Brett Deledio Jack Riewoldt Dustin Martin
F. Ben Lennon. Ty Vickery. Shane Edwards
Foll Ivan Maric. Trent Cotchin Anthony Miles
interchange Moore, Rioli, Grigg , B Ellis

 

[AstroboyUK]

Good stuff.

Difference of viewpoint is worth having. Anyway, I reckon 2016 could be a year where a few players that show some capability stake claims to being true AFL quality. If guys like Conca, TV, Griff, Hampson, Yarran (IMHO he has not been AFL quality consistently so far), Moore, Townsend can step up we are so much better. And with youngsters like CEllis, Lennon, Menadue that could step up we have the potential for a great deal more depth. Hoping it all comes on well.

you would have to think that this season will determine the destiny of 5-6 players at the 'top half' on our list. Several, without needing to name names, are not at the crossroads - because they have already proven themselves as highly competent- but are at a 'if not now, when?' point in terms of stepping up from highly competent to the standard of a player in a premiership team. If we cant go very deep in the finals with this format, this team structure, then it will be time, in order to step forward we need to change up a couple of key players. or to say the same thing in short hand, we will know if there is any more team improvement to be had from 'within'.

But for 2016 - I think we are in a good place list wise: not as good as we'll be in 2017 but better than 2015 - and that's exciting. Equally I think Dimma has proven a lot in the last 2 seasons - I don't think success of failure is likely to be down to variables in his performance: The players have no excuse to not know what he wants, what he expects, how to deliver: its really in the hands of the players - which means for the first time in 3-4 years we could see a small clean out at the top-end of our list at years end in the extremely unlikely event we don't win the Premiership.

 

[Dr Tigris]

you would have to think that this season will determine the destiny of 5-6 players at the 'top half' on our list. Several, without needing to name names, are not at the crossroads - because they have already proven themselves as highly competent- but are at a 'if not now, when?' point in terms of stepping up from highly competent to the standard of a player in a premiership team. If we cant go very deep in the finals with this format, this team structure, then it will be time, in order to step forward we need to change up a couple of key players. or to say the same thing in short hand, we will know if there is any more team improvement to be had from 'within'.

But for 2016 - I think we are in a good place list wise: not as good as we'll be in 2017 but better than 2015 - and that's exciting. Equally I think Dimma has proven a lot in the last 2 seasons - I don't think success of failure is likely to be down to variables in his performance: The players have no excuse to not know what he wants, what he expects, how to deliver: its really in the hands of the players - which means for the first time in 3-4 years we could see a small clean out at the top-end of our list at years end in the extremely unlikely event we don't win the Premiership.

Agreed, to some extent. Going top 8 and winning a final/s would be acceptable. It's those guys that we know have talent and ability, but aren't consistent players that need to step up right now. Get TV playing to what he did end 2015, Conca playing to his ability, Astbury, Griff ditto and we have a much stronger squad. Actually include Yarran in there as well. So much of an opportunity to improve just by established players coming on. Moore/Townsend showing genuine AFL quality would be huge for a list hole as well. And that is ignoring the youngsters. For the next couple of years though my biggest thing will be Hampson stepping up from 2/3 good games per year to that top end being his standard. Other wise we have a hugmongous hole in our list - Ivan size. I guess TV can fit in there. But I reckon TV is not a genuine first ruck, just a good second ruck. Still looking good.

 

[mopsy]

B Dylan Grimes PSD - Troy Chaplin (1) Nathan Broard (3). Bring in Elton to play on Clark. Free Grimes up to play on their sml/med forwards.
F Mitch Clarke (1) - Tom Hawkins (f/s) - Steven Motlop (3).

HB Chris Yarran (1) - Alex Rance (1) - Nick Vlastuin (1).
HF Cory Gregson (1) Rhys Stanley (3) - Daniel Menzel (1).

C. Kamdyn Mcintosh (2) - J Townsend (Z/S) - Corey Ellis (1).
C. Nakia Cockatoo (1) - Joel Selwood (1) - Mitch Duncan (2).

HF Brett Deledio (1) Jack Riewoldt (1) Dustin Martin (1).
HB Cory Enright (3) - Lachie Henderson (1) - Jackson Thurlow (1).

F. Ben Lennon. (1) - Ty Vickery. (1) - Shane Edwards (1). We need another tall fwd C Moore or McKenzie are the types missing.
F. Harry Taylor (1) Tom Lonergan (2) - Cam Guthrie (1).

Foll Ivan Maric.(3) - Trent Cotchin (1) - Anthony Miles (Z/S).
Foll Zac Smith (1) - Patrick Dangerfield (1) - Josh Caddy (1).

Int Andrew Moore (1) - Daniel Rioli (1) - Shaun Grigg (2) Brandon Ellis (1).
Int Jimmy Bartel (1) - Darcy Lang (1) Scott Selwood (2) - Mark Blicav's (r).

That side is two talls short imo,
One in attack. If Vickery is to play #2 ruck then Maric doesnt get a real rest as he has to go fwd, or we play with just one tall fwd and structure goes out the window. Imo this is where we lack a Gunston type of fwd maybe Callum Moore or another genuine kpf Reece McKenzie.
I would like to see us throw one of McKenzie or Callum Moore in the deep end just to add height and marking power and make all of the opposition tall defenders accountable. Failing that, one of Griffiths or McBean.

One in defence. Unless Troy Chaplin at the ripe old age of 30 can learn to become a consistent and competent 1v1 defender then he is a liability, yet he is going to be expected to play on an opposition key forward with that set up. So is Dylan Grimes.

I have been looking at other teams best 22 - 25 and imo most of those sides will play three tall fwds or two kpds and a ruck/fwd. Geelong for example will likely go with Hawkins 198/108, Clark 199/103 and one of Vardy 199/103, Stanley 200/98, Blicsav 198/97. i think four of them will play regardless as Blicsav"s athleticism and running power virtually makes him a mid and a nightmare to match up on if he goes forward.If we come up against sides like Geelong imo we need another big key defender Someone like Todd Elton who has Height 197cm size 101kg and is no dinosaur like astbury.

Finally the numbers after each player is the round each player was originally taken in the nd.
Imo Geelong are going to take some beating.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

Right I've had a few months off footy, I expect players like Lambert, Townsend, Menadue, Lloyd, Markov and Moore to be fighting out for the last spots in the 22 or as midfield depth during the nab challenge.
Seriously keen to see these blokes who are raring to go go hammer and tongs for a spot, give them all the opportunity in the pre season Dimma.
If just one of them can pull a Lambert from last year and jump into the 22 then that's a win and an upgrade on the list.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

My best 22 before the practice games.

Vlastuin-Rance-Batchelor
Grimes-Chaplin-Houli
B Ellis-Cotchin-C Ellis
Deledio-Vickery-Lennon
Edwards-Riewoldt-Yarran
Maric-Miles-Martin
I/C
Conca, Grigg, McIntosh, Townsend

Depth
Griffiths, Lambert, Astbury, Menadue, Moore, Rioli, Hunt, Lloyd, Markov, Drummond, Morris, Hampson

While the drop off in quality is obvious as you go down the list of depth its clear it's a pretty versatile group of players to bring in to play a role depending on injuries/suspension. Many have played afl footy and will want a spot in the 22, many are hard nuts too, so competition will be fierce.

On the 22, that's as hard running and versatile a group we can put out there while maintaining continuity amongst those who have played together for 4+ years now.
The ball can zip up and down the wing and there is enough height to swing players around to create mismatches up forward or plug holes down back.

A lot of talk of inside footy needing to be improved this off season and I agree, but it's not something one player will fix; the entire midfield needs to buy in.
I believe they will, that's as nuggety a midfield as any when you look down the bench and flanks who will run through the guts to give the engine room rest.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

I think the ball skills outside Chaplin and maybe Townsend (we don't know) are pretty darn' ******* slick too if that's the squad we roll with.
Will absolutely shell Carlton round 1 if things click early.

 

[tunksy]

could rioli pushg edwards out of the forward line s he can spend more time on ball and thus improve out contested posessions/clearnces? how much time did sheds spend on ball this year?

 

[mopsy]

could rioli pushg edwards out of the forward line s he can spend more time on ball and thus improve out contested posessions/clearnces? how much time did sheds spend on ball this year?

If Edwards spent most of his time fwd this yr then he was a failure as a forward.We both know he spent most of his time midfield and rotations.

We just used a first round pick on a small fwd, if he plays almost exclusively forward and he is not a 40 goal a season player then that pick imo has been wasted.
The real question should be Can and ARE the likes of Rioli and Butler developed enough to play forward? Probably not is the answer. So we will have to rely on midfielders like Deledio , Martin, Edwards, going forward again robbing peter to pay paul in the process to kick a score.

 

[Charlie Pannam]

If Edwards spent most of his time fwd this yr then he was a failure as a forward.We both know he spent most of his time midfield and rotations.

We just used a first round pick on a small fwd, if he plays almost exclusively forward and he is not a 40 goal a season player then that pick imo has been wasted.
The real question should be Can and ARE the likes of Rioli and Butler developed enough to play forward? Probably not is the answer. So we will have to rely on midfielders like Deledio , Martin, Edwards, going forward again robbing peter to pay paul in the process to kick a score.

I hope to see Yarran play a forwar/mid (ourside) role as well. Could be very dangerous alongside Titch, Dusty, Lids.

 

[mopsy]

The key area of the ground is midfield. Most of us acknowledge the need to get more quality into it. Imo if the likes of Martin and Deledio are spending inordinate amounts of time in the forward half then we are robbing our midfield of much needed class grunt and quality. Imo we rob peter to pay paul.
We don't have the midfield depth where we can afford to have our better mids spending most of their time forward. Short stints yes.

This year Deledio spent a lot of time forward and kicked 27 goals. He kicked 28 in 08 as a mid. Until this year he was going at .70 goals a game as a mid and this yr ave 1.5. In reality we aren't even getting an extra goal a game out of him and in the mean time we lose his hard running his pace experience his class and his ball use thru the middle.

Personally i don't mind our mids who can go forward spending limited time sharing a flank or pocket with one or even two of the forwards. Edwards, Martin, Deledio could all spend 15 20 minutes a game rotating thru a flank with someone like say Dan Butler or Ben Lennon, who would get some midfield time but be mainly developing as much needed small/med forwards, In Butlers case a bloke who has all the attributes to kick goals apply tackles apply the defensive pressure and is a nice solid size for a small to do this.

Imo we need to develop forwards Rioli, Butler, and Lennon. Lennon already is developing fwd., These guys should be integral parts of the fwd line atm but be capable of spending limited time thru the middle helping out our mids and allowing Deledio Martin Edwards the opportunity to spend a little time forward.
We talk about roles and who can do what. Well this is just defining them a bit and making a distinction between primary role to secondary role while acknowledging needs.I think we need to do this.

Personally i like the look of Dan Butler and with Rioli i think we finally have the potential in players to develop into very good sml fwds.

With the arrival of Rioli i looked at most of the better small fwds in the game and how long it took them to play and then make good impact.
Most were thrown straight in and most managed to play decent amounts of games early on, thus they developed in the seniors.This is not really surprising when we expect talls to take longer and click around 24yo mediums a shorter time around 22 and smalls a shorter time again.
It didn't take long for most to impact games either some in their first year some in their second a few a little longer.

We all acknowledge that we have forward line issues. Imo second kpf, goal kicking small, defensive small, and clever medium.
That we have midfield issues biggger bodies, two way runners. And we have a few down back Second kpf third tall run and rebound imo..Even the club acknowledges some of them.Yet so many are adverse to change.

If we wish to become a top 4 side we desperately need to develop and play a lot of the younger blokes whose attributes fit the roles we are lacking.
The team that lost against NM is not going to win us a flag, imo that is pretty obvious.

 

[deledio7]

B: Grimes Rance Batchelor
HB: Yarran Chaplin Houli
C: B Ellis Cotchin McIntosh
HF: Deledio Riewoldt Lennon
F: Edwards Vickery Yarran
R: Maric Miles Martin
I/C: Conca, Grigg, C Ellis, Moore

Depth
Griffiths, Lambert, Astbury, Menadue, Townsend, Rioli, Hunt, Lloyd, Markov, Drummond, Morris, Hampson

 

[Bobby Sands]

The key area of the ground is midfield. Most of us acknowledge the need to get more quality into it. Imo if the likes of Martin and Deledio are spending inordinate amounts of time in the forward half then we are robbing our midfield of much needed class grunt and quality. Imo we rob peter to pay paul.
We don't have the midfield depth where we can afford to have our better mids spending most of their time forward. Short stints yes.

This year Deledio spent a lot of time forward and kicked 27 goals. He kicked 28 in 08 as a mid. Until this year he was going at .70 goals a game as a mid and this yr ave 1.5. In reality we aren't even getting an extra goal a game out of him and in the mean time we lose his hard running his pace experience his class and his ball use thru the middle.

Personally i don't mind our mids who can go forward spending limited time sharing a flank or pocket with one or even two of the forwards. Edwards, Martin, Deledio could all spend 15 20 minutes a game rotating thru a flank with someone like say Dan Butler or Ben Lennon, who would get some midfield time but be mainly developing as much needed small/med forwards, In Butlers case a bloke who has all the attributes to kick goals apply tackles apply the defensive pressure and is a nice solid size for a small to do this.

Imo we need to develop forwards Rioli, Butler, and Lennon. Lennon already is developing fwd., These guys should be integral parts of the fwd line atm but be capable of spending limited time thru the middle helping out our mids and allowing Deledio Martin Edwards the opportunity to spend a little time forward.
We talk about roles and who can do what. Well this is just defining them a bit and making a distinction between primary role to secondary role while acknowledging needs.I think we need to do this.

Personally i like the look of Dan Butler and with Rioli i think we finally have the potential in players to develop into very good sml fwds.

With the arrival of Rioli i looked at most of the better small fwds in the game and how long it took them to play and then make good impact.
Most were thrown straight in and most managed to play decent amounts of games early on, thus they developed in the seniors.This is not really surprising when we expect talls to take longer and click around 24yo mediums a shorter time around 22 and smalls a shorter time again.
It didn't take long for most to impact games either some in their first year some in their second a few a little longer.

We all acknowledge that we have forward line issues. Imo second kpf, goal kicking small, defensive small, and clever medium.
That we have midfield issues biggger bodies, two way runners. And we have a few down back Second kpf third tall run and rebound imo..Even the club acknowledges some of them.Yet so many are adverse to change.

If we wish to become a top 4 side we desperately need to develop and play a lot of the younger blokes whose attributes fit the roles we are lacking.
The team that lost against NM is not going to win us a flag, imo that is pretty obvious.

THis is actually sensible, and not dripping in vitriol. Congrats !

 

[Bobby Sands]

B: Yarran Rance Batchelor
HB: Yarran Chaplin Houli
C: B Ellis Cotchin Yarran
HF: Deledio Yarran Lennon
F: Edwards Vickery Yarran
R: Maric Miles Martin
I/C: Conca,Yarran , C Ellis, Yarran

Depth
Griffiths, Lambert, Astbury, Menadue, Townsend, Rioli, Hunt, Lloyd, Markov, Drummond, Morris, Hampson

You have 8 Yarran's in there.

 

[Scullz85]

Based on what I saw today I reckon Townsend will be best 22.

 

[SplintWhisky]

I am hoping lloyd and build on the form he had pushing into the end of the year. To be honest dimma dropped him for conca on reputation and I hope that pushes him to improve. A muture age small forward to still average a goal a game is pretty good