Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[Malifice]

That is wrong. Anyone can apply. I think you meant to say successfully apply? 80% of boat people throw away their docs. How then can they prove they are who they say they are?

I couldn't even open a bank account on that basis but they can prove they are "genuine" refugees.

Utter joke.

Doofus. The Migration Act has placed the onus on asylum seekers to establish they are in fact genuine refugees. The decision is made by the Minister (well - his delegate).

If you dont like the decision, you can appeal the RRT. A 'quasi judicial' body (read non judicial extension of the executuve) that appears to consider itself not bound to the rule of law. No appeals to the judciary allowed (although smart lawyers get a few through on technical grounds).

You reckon the ALP are giving directives to wave the applicants in, you have rocks in your head. The system is designed to be virtually impossible for a claim to be successful.

And yes. I meant 'succeed' not apply.

 

[madmug]

We're in the midst of an RC into responses to child abuse which is shocking the country, and our elected representitives decide that kids on Nauru can be abused, and nobody has to even report it. Holy f***, there is some sort of amazing disconnect here.

Again both parties are all about getting the trappings of power. They will do anything for it, including this disgusting performance.

I would expect it of Abort, he is a nasty piece of shyte. But I would have hoped the ALP would show some morals, but alas no.

Party politics is rapidly descending into a moral cesspit.

They all make me sick.

 

[midorigreenwood]

Its no surprise that Labor voted down the Greens amendments. They were largely responsible for the shambolic state of the offshore detention centres in 2013 (nauru's was burnt down and everyone got stuck in tents) and dodged a bullet by losing the election. The offshore processing system would have collapsed after the manus riots without the pressure of new arrivals being diminished by the coalition boat turnbacks.

Their polliticking can be seen by only several days earlier cynically supporting the Greens inquiry into people smuggling payments....but only if the terms of reference covered the coalition's days in power....

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...eople-smuggler-payment-claims-20150625-ghwt0a

The inquiry, supported by Labor, will require the government to declare whether any Australian official paid money to anyone on board a vessel from September 2013. If the allegations are true, it will also demand information on who authorised the payments and whether they were legal under both domestic and international law.

Labor has at least a 50 - 50 chance of winning the next election which is looking a fair chance to be this year rather than next so would be affected by any strengthening in freedom of information from the offshore detention centres.

 

[Max zero]

I agree Maggie. both deserve resettlement but it doesn't change the fact we need a queue to ensure our services aren't overwhelmed.

At least with one; it is safe and provides a clear identification process.

The other adds to the desperation, hardship and suffering. Worse if left unregulated it would swamp our ability to provide essential services to them and our current population.


I don't know how your family came here but mine was by boat after WW2. The boats were authorised but on arrival the family was put into work camps in outback Australia until they were cleared for disease, their identities confirmed (war crimes), their skills assessed, their english assessed, accommodation made available and employment found. So we have understood the concept of running a proper process in this nation for a long long time.

It really is a good article. No one likes to see suffering. If there was a magical solution that would solve this who wouldn't want to try it?

The simple fact they are far more refugees in the world then there are places willing to take them. So there has to be some sort of system for processing them. Ideally you would want these processes done by government entities rather then people smugglers.

To me the controversy only comes about when people confuse how they wish the world worked with how it actually does work.

 

[Gough]

Do you think mandatory reporting of child abuse is aspirational?

 

[Northalives]

Disgusting.

I'm very concerned about the direction Abbott is taking Australia, but I can't see myself voting for Shorten.
Both parties are moving more and more to the right, and are doing what it takes to stay in power, rather than working for Australia.

Wish we had some options.

You have, you either re-elect Abbott and his mob of extremists or you don't.

That's how politics works in this country: governments lose government, oppositions do not win them.

It was hilarious watching Nikki Savva on the insiders the other day, she knows that Abbott is unelectable again and is trying desperately, desperately to get people to focus on Shorten. That's what Royal Commissions into Unions are about, that's what the deafening sound of dog whistles are about and that's why the idiot Fitzgibbon is "putting out there" the boats crap; in order to try and neutralise/blunt that issue.

Hockey will not present another budget and Abbott is getting ready for an election around football final's time. Personally, I'd like to see Shorten replaced by Tony Burke or Anthony Albanese and that would ensure that Abbott and the laughingly called "liberal" party would be reduced to a rump in the Australian Parliament but it wont really matter though, Abbott wont be re-elected.

 

[Lebbo73]

You have, you either re-elect Abbott and his mob of extremists or you don't.

That's how politics works in this country: governments lose government, oppositions do not win them.

It was hilarious watching Nikki Savva on the insiders the other day, she knows that Abbott is unelectable again and is trying desperately, desperately to get people to focus on Shorten. That's what Royal Commissions into Unions are about, that's what the deafening sound of dog whistles are about and that's why the idiot Fitzgibbon is "putting out there" the boats crap; in order to try and neutralise/blunt that issue.

Hockey will not present another budget and Abbott is getting ready for an election around football final's time. Personally, I'd like to see Shorten replaced by Tony Burke or Anthony Albanese and that would ensure that Abbott and the laughingly called "liberal" party would be reduced to a rump in the Australian Parliament but it wont really matter though, Abbott wont be re-elected.

I can't believe the tripe you have posted here and in the Rudd v Gillard thread. Do you really think the ALP are the champions of Oz politics? Surely you are not that naive. Both parties are a joke atm and to suggest that Labor are not is nothing short of delusional.

 

[Jakko]

Still silent on the first way and over stayers. LOL
It is still whack an AS.
How is that report reading going GJ, you have gone very quiet when you are provided with evidence.

Just on the first way you seem so keen on, I wonder if there has been a spike on entry via this method. Anyone have data on that?

On pure $$ analysis it must be a close call between fly to Indonesia, pay people smugglers many thousands of dollars Vs simply flying direct to OZ then seek asylum?

 

[Northalives]

I can't believe the tripe you have posted here and in the Rudd v Gillard thread. Do you really think the ALP are the champions of Oz politics? Surely you are not that naive. Both parties are a joke atm and to suggest that Labor are not is nothing short of delusional.

You misunderstand. I did not say that the ALP are "champions" of Oz politics, (whatever that means).

I am simply stating a fact that if you want to undertake serious study in Australian Politics (the proper way not just google), you will find that the vast, vast amount of published information about Australian politics is by or about those in the Labor Movement. That is just fact.

The "liberal" party and their predecessors don't give anything much away, so to speak. This is because the "liberal" parties real constituency are the "big-end of-town" and the squattocracy and THEIR political party is the "Liberal" Party and their function is to maximise profits for this constituency and maintain it's power and influence in the face of those who sell their labour and want a bit more for their efforts both financially and socially.

The ALP is founded in unionism in the same way that the UAP/Liberal Parties etc were founded by the anti-labour forces. That is the way it has been since Australia was settled by white fella and as a function of this, the Labour Movement are only too pleased to "put out there" their ideals and ideas and how they have struggled to "get them up" where as the conservatives, it's all hush hush old boy!

Don't be offended, that's the way it is, for better or for worse. I'd love to read accounts of what was happening in Australia between the 1920's and 60's from a "liberal" perspective by a "liberal" or about the "liberals", I'd love to read what happened during the '70's from a "liberal" perspective but what is published is very, very scarce.

If you would just consider this for a moment, in 30 years time, someone who is interested in what happened during 2007 and 2015, they would find many published accounts by contemporary Labour people of this period but next to none from the others players in politics during this time. If you don't believe me, go and have a look.

Further, just think what would Australia look like today if the "big-end-of-town" had managed to quell and then extinguish the early agitations of the Labour Movement and remained in power unbroken?

 

[midorigreenwood]

Just on the first way you seem so keen on, I wonder if there has been a spike on entry via this method. Anyone have data on that?

On pure $$ analysis it must be a close call between fly to Indonesia, pay people smugglers many thousands of dollars Vs simply flying direct to OZ then seek asylum?

Yes, there has been a spike in onshore applications (1st column). However the number of successful claims are relatively stable (2nd column).

Australia maintains a measure of control through the visa system. In the past it was a lot harder to get a valid student/tourist visa for certain nationalities than to pay people smugglers.

2006-07
3723 1692

2007-08
3987 1898

2008-09
5072 2173

2009-10
5981 2364

2010-11
6335 2099

2011–12
7063 2272

2012–13
8480 2555

2013–14
9646

 

[Maggie5]

Just on the first way you seem so keen on, I wonder if there has been a spike on entry via this method. Anyone have data on that?

On pure $$ analysis it must be a close call between fly to Indonesia, pay people smugglers many thousands of dollars Vs simply flying direct to OZ then seek asylum?

Firstly, I think that you have got it wrong, I have not stated that I am keen on the first. I have consistently asked why there hasn't been as much outcry on over-stayers, that is all.
I posted numbers at post #10060 but there doesn't appear to be much information that is current available as this government does not produce figures like the previous government did.

 

[Gough]

Has someone told the PM we are a secular state?

 

[GuruJane]

What the **** is this Border Force Act???

Why are Doctors the enemy now?

Far out, is there anyone Abbott won't turn into an Team Australia vs them, shitfest?

GuruJane, can you give me the Abbott spin for this? Because I can't see how it could possibly be a good thing.

Scott Morrison got BorderForce underway ages ago - its a copy of the UK's border force. The object is to professionalise the bodies dealing with customs, migration etc and bring them into the 21st century. So there's nothing unprecedented and you can swallow the frothing.

What it signals, of course, is that the coalition will continue to put a high priority on keeping the people smuggler boats well and truly stopped - no doubt you'll be voting for a party that wants them back?

 

[midorigreenwood]

“48 Disclosure to reduce threat to life or health

An entrusted person may disclose protected information if:

(a) the entrusted person reasonably believes that the disclosure is necessary to prevent or lessen a serious threat to the life or health of an individual; and

(b) the disclosure is for the purposes of preventing or lessening that threat.”

http://www.julianburnside.com.au/the-border-force-act-trying-to-silence-health-workers/

Above excerpt from the act was taken from burnside's website about why whistleblowers will probably escape prosecution.

From the mouth of Burnside

The defence under section 48 is important. It is arguably more powerful than normal whislte-blower defences.

For all the scaremongering, if the government really wanted to prosecute doctors and other whistleblowers, why include this exception which basically lets them off the hook?

It's pretty obvious. The govt believes some social workers and other staff are agitating asylum seekers to commit self harm and other actions as a political and public relations protest. If anything that's who are the real targets rather than the members of the AMA.

After all labor helped pass the bill without protest so are the alp trying to jail doctors too?

 

[GuruJane]

Just on the first way you seem so keen on, I wonder if there has been a spike on entry via this method. Anyone have data on that?

For some strange reason Maggie just doesn't understand that visa overstayers are phenonomen that has been around ever since visas were invented. Mostly no big deal because most of them move on or go home eventually.

Even more strangely, while Maggie is so concerned with overstayers she can't bring herself to be relieved that government's success in putting a stop to people smuggler boars has released resources for DIAC to chase down more VOs. Why would this be do we think?

 

[GuruJane]

So, jailing a doctor for two years, and giving him a criminal record which will make international travel very hard, if s/he stands by the Hippocratic oath.
In a system that is already failing children.
Is professional?

All the reports and findings and accounts saying that children are being mistreated... and the professional thing isn't to do anything to protect the children... It's to protect the adults and stop people hearing the truth.



But thanks, I didn't know the spin, so I do appreciate it.

Froth froth, steam steam - read mids post at 10153 and have a calm down.

 

[CM86]

For some strange reason Maggie just doesn't understand that visa overstayers are phenonomen that has been around ever since visas were invented. Mostly no big deal because most of them move on or go home eventually.

Even more strangely, while Maggie is so concerned with overstayers she can't bring herself to be relieved that government's success in putting a stop to people smuggler boars has released resources for DIAC to chase down more VOs. Why would this be do we think?

Do you have a link showing that money saved from stopping "people smuggler boars" releasing resources to DIAC to chase down more VOs?

Maggie5, have you seen a link from GJ about this?

 

[CM86]

Froth froth, steam steam - read mids post at 10153 and have a calm down.

Read and replied...

Nice avoidance!

 

[Maggie5]

Do you have a link showing that money saved from stopping "people smuggler boars" releasing resources to DIAC to chase down more VOs?

Maggie5, have you seen a link from GJ about this?

No need to worry about any of this in the future as accidentally tuned into channel 9 A Current Affair and it seems you will be able to buy Australian citizenship for $60,000 if the gov't and David Leyonhjelm have their way. We certainly value our country, this seems cheap to me.

 

[Maggie5]

For some strange reason Maggie just doesn't understand that visa overstayers are phenonomen that has been around ever since visas were invented. Mostly no big deal because most of them move on or go home eventually.

Even more strangely, while Maggie is so concerned with overstayers she can't bring herself to be relieved that government's success in putting a stop to people smuggler boars has released resources for DIAC to chase down more VOs. Why would this be do we think?

Boo hoo, can understand better than you. You just love the subject of Asylum Seekers, they are your bogey men.
By the way it is so easy to say, sorry, I was wrong about Monis. No one will think less of you.

 

[Maggie5]

After all labor helped pass the bill without protest so are the alp trying to jail doctors too?

You know, just sometimes for a lot of us, it is not what labor agreed to so that makes it alright.
Leaving political parties aside, do you think it may be that we are sick of all these changes?

 

[midorigreenwood]

You know, just sometimes for a lot of us, it is not what labor agreed to so that makes it alright.
Leaving political parties aside, do you think it may be that we are sick of all these changes?

As usual missing the point completely

I'm not the ones scaremongering and accusing the libs of wanting to jail doctors.

I was trying to bring some balance to the debate where others see it as another opportunity to call Abbott Hitler.

After all the bill had bipartisan support so its a bit more complicated than Abbott is evil part 29 no?

 

[Maggie5]

As usual missing the point completely

I'm not the ones scaremongering and accusing the libs of wanting to jail doctors.

I was trying to bring some balance to the debate where others see it as another opportunity to call Abbott Hitler.

After all the bill had bipartisan support so its a bit more complicated than Abbott is evil part 29 no?

You may be missing the point.

It was as if you were talking to one group and by stating that because Labor supported it too, the policy was acceptable.

I thought posters were also discussing the the merits of the policy.

 

[midorigreenwood]

You may be missing the point.
.

Funny because you're the one clinging on to one sentence of my post out of context and ignoring the other 90%... You know the actual argument?

Read it again and get back to me

 

[Gough]

As usual missing the point completely

I'm not the ones scaremongering and accusing the libs of wanting to jail doctors.

I was trying to bring some balance to the debate where others see it as another opportunity to call Abbott Hitler.

After all the bill had bipartisan support so its a bit more complicated than Abbott is evil part 29 no?

You're trying to defend a policy that I consider fundamentally wrong, and not sustainable, regardless of which party is spruiking it. I don't think I'm an orphan there.