List Mgmt. 2014: The List

[BlueTongue]

Azul, Ratten coached Carlton for five years for only 1, yes 1, finals win (same as Mick so far)

For a club of Carlton's stature, and considering the list he had, including Judd at his peak, that is a failure.

Ratten was given a fair run in modern AFL terms.

I also think your expectations are way too high if you think we automatic shoe ins for the finals next year.

Depending on our draw, 10 wins next year is a decent result, we are still suffering the effects of a decade of bad drafting/trading pre Mick, plus the expansion teams coming in has set our rebuild back a couple of years as well.

Right now we haven't got the pace to match it with top teams like Port, or the hard edge of Hawthorn. Give the kids time to develop, our next premiership window is probably 3 years (at least) away

Don't agree. We are not drafting Rookies here, we traded for ready-made players with a role to fill. I'm sure the expectation for next year would be AT LEAST to make the final 8. Hinkley has also turned Port around in 1 year, arguably without the class we have had available.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Don't agree. We are not drafting Rookies here, we traded for ready-made players with a role to fill. I'm sure the expectation for next year would be AT LEAST to make the final 8. Hinkley has also turned Port around in 1 year, arguably without the class we have had available.

You are seriously barking up the wrong tree if you think we have the depth and spread of talent as Port ..Not even close.

You honestly think if Ken Hinkley.came and coached us next year we would be top 4 ? Please show me the Robbie Gray, Boak, Wines type of players on our list ..

Last season was a write-off because of injuries, and we have phased out list-cloggers and giving kids more games next year.

I certainly don't expect finals in 2015 but i expect (and believe he will get it) an contract extension for Mick, because his list management so far has been superb and us adding a lot of toughness and grunt to a previously fragile playing list.

Absolutely no shame in going backwards to go forwards, this approach is likely to give us more longer sustained success going forwards...

 

[HARKER]

I certainly don't expect finals in 2015 but i expect (and believe he will get it) an contract extension for Mick, because his list management so far has been superb and us adding a lot of toughness and grunt to a previously fragile playing list.

Absolutely no shame in going backwards to go forwards, this approach is likely to give us more longer sustained success going forwards...

Would have we made finals with a healthier list than we had through the majority of 2014?

In the short term we have lost more than we've gained and our depth will be severely tested should we have another bloody year of playing ~40 players.
Still think that if by years end if we've used only 30 - 32 players, we'll have every chance of making finals but then again that may be said for many teams.

 

[MC_Doggy_Frog18]

I really don't know where we will finish next year.

 

[HARKER]

I really don't know where we will finish next year.

No one does but someone will guess right

We can be pretty safe to say we won't be top 4. The rest?
As usual that will depend on many things but one thing we won't have amongst our squad, is for players weighing down others because of intent or effort.
We've bitten the bullet this year, even more-so than last but it will pay dividends.

 

[MC_Doggy_Frog18]

No one does but someone will guess right

We can be pretty safe to say we won't be top 4. The rest?
As usual that will depend on many things but one thing we won't have amongst our squad, is for players weighing down others because of intent or effort.
We've bitten the bullet this year, even more-so than last but it will pay dividends.

Same as bottom 4

 

[Azul]

Finals are unlikely if you consider our midfield.

Buckley, Yarran and Docherty need to shed the baggage of 'specialist hbf' and rotate through the middle on a regular basis. Bell, Cripps, Graham and Whiley need lots of game time. I'd even use Menzel at stoppages on occasion - he's a talent that needs to impact games more.

10-15 possessions a game doesn't cut it - these guys should be clocking up 20-25 on a regular basis.

Crossroads for Armfield and Ellard.

Can't rely on Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo to carry the load any longer.

 

[SBYM]

I'm almost certain we'll finish somewhere.

 

[Weiterbot23]

I think we should go a lot better.

Started 0-4 plus had that many injuries/ players underdone.

Only a few players could be really happy with their seasons
-Gibbs
-Yaz
-Buckley
-Rowe


If Kruezer can come back and give up what he did a couple of years ago, that's huge, plus he could still improve. Vets like Judd, Carrots and Walker struggled all year, we should expect better output from them next year.

Touhey had a down year, hopefully he can bounce back and his mate looks like he will come on well.

Doc had a horror preseason and could really come on, same with Daisy.

I think there's a bit to be optimistic about, we lost a ton of close games last year.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Would have we made finals with a healthier list than we had through the majority of 2014?

In the short term we have lost more than we've gained and our depth will be severely tested should we have another bloody year of playing ~40 players.
Still think that if by years end if we've used only 30 - 32 players, we'll have every chance of making finals but then again that may be said for many teams.

But i think the important thing is to build a squad that is capable of challenging for a flag, not be a club like Adelaide, Essendon, West Coast etc who now seem to a lock for 6 - 10 every year ..

Think we overachieved (in hindsight) that year we lost by a kick over to West Coast in that semi-final in Perth, and the club (probably wrongly) made Ratten a scapegoat when we dropped off the following year.

The key position forward line is a concern, as is our backline if Jamo's shoulder doesn't hold up right.

Just about every ounce of luck would have to come our way in 2015 to plays (mostly on the injuries front). Can Levi actually work his way to a 50 - 75 % goal conversion rate ? Is Cripps ready to take McLean's spot in the starting 18 ? Thinking about it, our entire finals hopes probably rest on one man - Matty Kruezer. If the footy gods are finally kind to him, he plays at least 20 games, we will play finals, he is so crucial to our structure.

 

[MC_Doggy_Frog18]

We should have a 2015 AFL predictions thread after the draft and the lists are finalised.

 

[BlueTongue]

...You honestly think if Ken Hinkley.came and coached us next year we would be top 4 ? Please show me the Robbie Gray, Boak, Wines type of players on our list ..

You misinterpreted my post. I'm saying that Port are a relatively young side, and even with a number of delistings & young players, they managed to make the top 8. I'm not sure on Ken Hinkley making a difference to CFC, Different coach, different players & different circumstances. However, I think you undervalue our midfield, when you take into account Yarran, Menzel, Walker, Curnow, Graham, Bell (possibly Cripps & Buckley) will all be rotating through in addition to the usual suspects.

...Absolutely no shame in going backwards to go forwards, this approach is likely to give us more longer sustained success going forwards...

Not saying there is shame in that. But, if you read what McKay has stated about 'Refresh' rather then 'Re-Build', you have to take them on face value that this is exactly what we are aiming to do, and that we think we are a chance at finals. If we were in re-build stage, I doubt we'd have drafted players in their early 20s.

Again, I'm very much of the opinion that Top 8 is what is expected from the coach & players this year.

 

[BlueTongue]

Finals are unlikely if you consider our midfield.

Buckley, Yarran and Docherty need to shed the baggage of 'specialist hbf' and rotate through the middle on a regular basis. Bell, Cripps, Graham and Whiley need lots of game time. I'd even use Menzel at stoppages on occasion - he's a talent that needs to impact games more.

10-15 possessions a game doesn't cut it - these guys should be clocking up 20-25 on a regular basis.

Crossroads for Armfield and Ellard.

Can't rely on Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo to carry the load any longer.

Pretty sure Docherty will stay at half back. He has proven he has the footskills required and likes to break the lines. As does Yarran, but I think he will be used midfield / Forward this year.

 

[ShanDog]

Our list balance has been greatly improved since MM and Rogers have been in charge of their respective departments. Ignoring the draftees this year (since it is unrealistic to expect any significant contributions from them), the improved health of some key players in 2015 like Walker, Henderson and Kreuzer will have a noticeable effect on our team performance.

I would be quite disappointed if we don't make the 8 in 2015. We have enough talent to do so and the team should be working well together given the time spent with the new coach. In fact, you couldn't say he is a new coach for us anymore.

Having said that, I fully understand that our next flag is not going to happen with the current crop of experienced stars we have. It sucks but I think Carrots, Judd and possibly even Simpson will probably be retired when we are regular top 4 material. The next generation of kids (Cripps, Menzel, Buckley, Graham, Jaksch, etc) are the ones who will be 100-gamers when that happens, with old heads such as Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer, Henderson and Yarran providing the experience and leadership.

We will improve next year, but it is from thereafter that we will be a threat if we continue on our current course.

 

[ajb72]

Hawks
Port
Sydney
Blues
.......

 

[Coona Blues]

Hawks
Port
Sydney
Blues
.......

Many would rubbish this, but not impossible.
So many rubbish the list, but we have developing players who may take "quantum leaps" (although another year more likely)
Juddy and Carrots if they can maintain fitness are the key to the engine room. Posters leaving Carrazzo out of "best 22" are
seduced by new and sexy of how teams work. Whiley earmarked as extractor while Cripps is developing.
Jones looked like a future star with some cameos and a new start may do wonders. I still have him behind Watson atm.
Daisy was a star of the game. If he can rekindle this after a year consolidating his body, look out.
I still regard Yarran as a key, his output improved nicely in 2014, but needs a tank to realise his potential.
Buckley worked his guts out, but faded out in games due to a lack of endurance. Menzel needs to condition his mind and body.
The Irish boys have enormous upside...(think Hanley). Cripps' slow maturing body may mean we have a slow burn.
Bell, Curnow, Graham and back to Holman and Johnson still have improvement. Docherty gets a preseason.
Throw in a fit and firing Matt Kreuzer, Wood off a higher fitness base, and hopefully a fitter/tougher Warnock. Jaksch?
WE CAN IMPROVE DRAMATICALLY.

Freo probably ahead, but Pav, McPharlin, Sandy are massive keys they cannot yet do without.
North are "improving", but lose Harvey, Petrie, Wells, Waite, Dal Santo soon and their recruiting has
expressed a lack of confidence in their developing players.
Richmond should not be taken lightly, but hardly intimidating.
Gold Coast a finals contender. Brisbane vying for the competitions best midfield command respect.
Adelaide always a threat, but often lacking = middle of the road.
West Coast talented, but short of depth
Geelong and Collingwood are on the slide to varying degrees.
If allowed to run amok Essendon a threat, but if any justice a write off.
GWS will continue to improve...how fast???????
Melbourne to go forward from a long way back.
Bulldogs continue to play with the list, still developing slowly.
Saints won't be as bad as some think but will struggle for consistency with a young list.

Conservatively 4-12, but I am prepared to back 4-8.

 

[JamisonRun40]

I want to play finals so I'm guessing we'll finish between 6-8. We weren't that far behind this season. If Richmond can make the eight so can we.

 

[Sultan]

Probably an odd question, but is Simpson one of those sort of guys who will probably play for another 4 years despite approaching 31 next year? He seems to have the type of body that doesn't get affected by injury too much and seemingly doesn't have anyone chasing his spot.

 

[King of Ruin]

Simpson will play till he's 102.

 

[King of Ruin]

And a half...

 

[SeVi]

Brisbane's midfield is not that good I'm sorry. Beams is definitely a positive, but compared to Port, Sydney, Gold Coast or Hawthorn its nothing to be worried about.

GWS will improve dramatically. Griffen and Patful are serious ins for them. Can see them playing finals next year.

Suns could be closer to top4 than us, probably depends on what Ablett is capable of next year. May not return to past form.

We can easily make the top8, but whether we can get into the top4 that will be the challenge.

 

[Bluejob]

Brisbane's midfield is not that good I'm sorry. Beams is definitely a positive, but compared to Port, Sydney, Gold Coast or Hawthorn its nothing to be worried about.

GWS will improve dramatically. Griffen and Patful are serious ins for them. Can see them playing finals next year.

Suns could be closer to top4 than us, probably depends on what Ablett is capable of next year. May not return to past form.

We can easily make the top8, but whether we can get into the top4 that will be the challenge.

We can make the top 8... Most certainly not easily.

Agreed we are not anywhere near top 4.

 

[BluStreak]

What are other posters opinion on Menzel? I am not worried about his talent, that is there for all to see and I want it in our club.

I am concerned about his demeanour.
He came across (at times) as petulant on field.
Took him a long time to re-sign with the club as well.
I am just wondering if he has 'brought into' our club.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What are other posters opinion on Menzel? I am not worried about his talent, that is there for all to see and I want it in our club.

I am concerned about his demeanour.
He came across (at times) as petulant on field.
Took him a long time to re-sign with the club as well.
I am just wondering if he has 'brought into' our club.

He's onboard.

He says his contract was not an issue, he was never homesick, Adelaide was never an option .... that's step one. He says a lot of guys were interested in where the club were going next year, and Judd re-signing helped things a lot. I think it is understandable after a year where we went backwards in ladder position.

Gibbs wanted to see our direction too. In fact, I think our direction has a lot to do with clearing out lazy or troublesome footballers and that makes the others feel like they don't have to carry them in matches.

I also don't think he is petulant. He does work to provide an option and is ignored a lot and he isn't so young that he won't let it be known he was a viable option. I like that he won't be a shy retiring wallflower. Wingard at Port appears to be the most driven, miserable SOB in the AFL at times. Cranky to the extreme. It's obviously not because he isn't involved in the play or because Port aren't doing well, but because he is a perfectionist. Wants the ball all the time, wants to execute properly all the time, wants to win. If he kicks a goal, he marches back to the spot without cracking a smile and wants another one.

I just think we are seeing the next generation of professional footballers and leaders coming through at Carlton. Let's hope we have enough of them that they all want to stick around and play with each other. Jaksch seems quite vocal. That's a start.

 

[HARKER]

He says his contract was not an issue, he was never homesick, Adelaide was never an option .... that's step one. He says a lot of guys were interested in where the club were going next year, and Judd re-signing helped things a lot. I think it is understandable after a year where we went backwards in ladder position.
Gibbs wanted to see our direction too. In fact, I think our direction has a lot to do with clearing out lazy or troublesome footballers and that makes the others feel like they don't have to carry them in matches.

I also don't think he is petulant. He does work to provide an option and is ignored a lot and he isn't so young that he won't let it be known he was a viable option. I like that he won't be a shy retiring wallflower. Wingard at Port appears to be the most driven, miserable SOB in the AFL at times. Cranky to the extreme. It's obviously not because he isn't involved in the play or because Port aren't doing well, but because he is a perfectionist. Wants the ball all the time, wants to execute properly all the time, wants to win. If he kicks a goal, he marches back to the spot without cracking a smile and wants another one.

I just think we are seeing the next generation of professional footballers and leaders coming through at Carlton. Let's hope we have enough of them that they all want to stick around and play with each other. Jaksch seems quite vocal. That's a start.

That's a very valid point and no more evident than it was in the NB's this year.

For whatever individual reasons they may have had, the efforts of Garlett, Lucas, Temay and unfortunately even McIness at times were very ordinary to say the least. One effort (lack of effort) from McIness had Anthony unloading a tirade on him for all spectators to see. Embarrassing stuff.