Oppo Camp 2015 non-Geelong match and general football discussion

[Lana]

That is the case but it was decided by them and the pies to release the names so not to tar everyone at the pies with the same brush

I thought that the failure of the A sample only went public when the B sample was also failed. But given that it went public that a player failed a drug test, what you say makes sense.

 

[Willo_]

I thought that the failure of the A sample only went public when the B sample was also failed. But given that it went public that a player failed a drug test, what you say makes sense.

Yeah that's normally true. But the Pies get told about it obviously.
Now I'm not sure if the players actually had a choice or if Eddie just told them names were being released so that everyone didn't just assume it was Swan...

 

[Willo_]

perhaps but players like Shaw, Blair, Sidebottom, Lumumba, Thomas, Wellingham . . . they were and still are young guys, 28 and 29 years of age and are virtually completely different players to the ones running around back in 10-12.
I've never seen such a sudden transformation from solid players to fairly average players simply making up the numbers these days.

Didn't help that they got rid of a coach that could coach and got one in that couldnt. Also remember Bucks split up their tight nit group, Didak got the arse, Shaw and Daisy left, Harry O lost his marbles etc etc

 

[Willo_]

sorry but the coach does not make you lose your ability out on the footy field.
Fact is, those same players are average at their new clubs also. I reckon that football club was heavily into performance enhancing as early as way back then and one wonders if more is about to come out in the coming weeks.

No but if the players don't want to play for him or aren't as happy with him it only takes being the slightest bit off mentally to make a big difference.

I'm not sure one way or the other and to be honest I reckon most clubs including our own probably have skeletons in the closet or lines they have blurred before

I'm just agreeing with thejester 's point that they were up for a few years

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I hope Geelong players aren't involved and are smart enough now to not do them, but we're naive if we think Geelong is immune to the PEDS, or any club for that matter. So I wouldn't be pointing fingers and laughing, we could very well be in the same position sometime in the future.

 

[catempire]

I also never felt Collingwood and those players were *that good*. When they were at their peak and coming up against us I always thought, geez, here's a team of mostly battlers that a playing for each other and playing to a very well-tuned gameplan and that's enough to keep up with one of the greatest teams ever (if not the greatest). It's no surprise to me that a few years later the component parts of that team don't look as good in the cold light of day. Pendlebury is the clear exception.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I also never felt Collingwood and those players were *that good*. When they were at their peak and coming up against us I always thought, geez, here's a team of mostly battlers that a playing for each other and playing to a very well-tuned gameplan and that's enough to keep up with one of the greatest teams ever (if not the greatest). It's no surprise to me that a few years later the component parts of that team don't look as good in the cold light of day. Pendlebury is the clear exception.

Collingwood's history is absolutely riddled with over-achieving teams, far more than any other club. It was the major explanation for the Colliwobbles.

 

[catempire]

Collingwood's history is absolutely riddled with over-achieving teams, far more than any other club. It was the major explanation for the Colliwobbles.

So it wasn't just me Fred?

 

[Willo_]

So it wasn't just me Fred?

I do remember laughing when at the start of 2010 Maxwell declared they were aiming for a flag.... I never thought they were that good.
But agree with your thoughts and with any other coach/game plan I don't think they would have been as good as they were

 

[FredLeDeux]

That is the case but it was decided by them and the pies to release the names so not to tar everyone at the pies with the same brush

I heard the rumour on Friday, so I think they've all just bowed to the inevitable.

 

[The rabbi]

The Memes are on the move.

Footy is back.

 

[00VicWard001]

sorry but the coach does not make you lose your ability out on the footy field.
Fact is, those same players are average at their new clubs also. I reckon that football club was heavily into performance enhancing as early as way back then and one wonders if more is about to come out in the coming weeks.

I remember reading something where Hird told Dank or Robinson that the Pies had a performance enhancing program and that he wanted the Bombers to catch up to them. I remember Eddie going nuts over it and now this comes out...

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Collingwood's history is absolutely riddled with over-achieving teams, far more than any other club. It was the major explanation for the Colliwobbles.

I'd nearly go as far to say that Malthouse guiding that ragtag bunch of the early 2000s to consecutive grand finals (and almost pinching one) was on par with actually winning the thing in 2010. Battling Melbourne's 2000 team as the worst 'on paper' grand final team in my lifetime and must be the worst back-to-back grand final team ever.

Played in both: Ben Johnson, Shane Wakelin, James Clement, Simon Prestigiacomo, Ryan Lonie, Shane O'Bree, Nathan Buckley, Leon Davis, Scott Burns, Josh Fraser, Chris Tarrant, Paul Licuria, Heath Scotland, Alan Didak

Played in 2002: Carl Steinfort, Anthony Rocca, Nick Davis, Rupert Betheras, Steven McKee, Glenn Freeborn, Tarkyn Lockyer, Jarrod Molloy

Played in 2003: Matthew Lokan, Richie Cole, Brodie Holland, Jason Cloke, Ben Kinnear, Tristen Walker, Shane Woewodin, Rhyce Shaw

Yikes...

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Is it just me or does Balmey look like he doesn't give a **** since he's crossed over to the Pies?

 

[Willo_]

I'd nearly go as far to say that Malthouse guiding that ragtag bunch of the early 2000s to consecutive grand finals (and almost pinching one) was on par with actually winning the thing in 2010. Battling Melbourne's 2000 team as the worst 'on paper' grand final team in my lifetime and must be the worst back-to-back grand final team ever.

Played in both: Ben Johnson, Shane Wakelin, James Clement, Simon Prestigiacomo, Ryan Lonie, Shane O'Bree, Nathan Buckley, Leon Davis, Scott Burns, Josh Fraser, Chris Tarrant, Paul Licuria, Heath Scotland, Alan Didak

Played in 2002: Carl Steinfort, Anthony Rocca, Nick Davis, Rupert Betheras, Steven McKee, Glenn Freeborn, Tarkyn Lockyer, Jarrod Molloy

Played in 2003: Matthew Lokan, Richie Cole, Brodie Holland, Jason Cloke, Ben Kinnear, Tristen Walker, Shane Woewodin, Rhyce Shaw

Yikes...

Fair point

what an absolute who's who of nobodies in those 2 grand finals

 

[Stan The Caddy]

perhaps but players like Shaw, Blair, Sidebottom, Lumumba, Thomas, Wellingham . . . they were and still are young guys, 28 and 29 years of age and are virtually completely different players to the ones running around back in 10-12.
I've never seen such a sudden transformation from solid players to fairly average players simply making up the numbers these days.

There were some pretty strong rumours back then Bobby...

 

[catempire]

I'd nearly go as far to say that Malthouse guiding that ragtag bunch of the early 2000s to consecutive grand finals (and almost pinching one) was on par with actually winning the thing in 2010. Battling Melbourne's 2000 team as the worst 'on paper' grand final team in my lifetime and must be the worst back-to-back grand final team ever.

Played in both: Ben Johnson, Shane Wakelin, James Clement, Simon Prestigiacomo, Ryan Lonie, Shane O'Bree, Nathan Buckley, Leon Davis, Scott Burns, Josh Fraser, Chris Tarrant, Paul Licuria, Heath Scotland, Alan Didak

Played in 2002: Carl Steinfort, Anthony Rocca, Nick Davis, Rupert Betheras, Steven McKee, Glenn Freeborn, Tarkyn Lockyer, Jarrod Molloy

Played in 2003: Matthew Lokan, Richie Cole, Brodie Holland, Jason Cloke, Ben Kinnear, Tristen Walker, Shane Woewodin, Rhyce Shaw

Yikes...

It's nothing short of astounding that 2002 team got so close to Brisbane.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It's nothing short of astounding that 2002 team got so close to Brisbane.

I reckon in 2003 the Pies even started as favourites, having beaten Brisbane in the QF.

It's why I'll never understand how some supporters actually would prefer to lose earlier in the finals than to be beaten in the grand final. For me, it's about going as far as you can and letting the chips fall where they may. Port Adelaide was the second best team in 2007, no matter how many people want to laugh at them. And for Collingwood to make back-to-back grand finals in 2002-03 with those squads was a bloody good achievement, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[mac_cat]

Where do I buy it

So this isn't like the Creepy Crowley situation where the drug he used can mask steroid use?

It's worse than the Crowley situation, as whatever he tested positive to was prohibited on match day (not sure if it was a strong opioid or a masking agent, as they didn't say, as far as I know). But in this case there's no ambiguity, clenbuterol is banned at all times because it's performance enhancing.

I know body builders tend to use a combination of both clenbuterol and steroids, different doses at different times depending on what they're aiming to achieve. There's not much in the medical literature about how they would be used to build muscle mass, because it's too risky (risk of hypertension, stroke etc). But apparently in the bodybuilding world there are known regimes for use, presumably worked out by experimentation. I still can't believe the health risks some people will take to achieve their goals!

 

[Turbocat]

It's worse than the Crowley situation, as whatever he tested positive to was prohibited on match day (not sure if it was a strong opioid or a masking agent, as they didn't say, as far as I know). But in this case there's no ambiguity, clenbuterol is banned at all times because it's performance enhancing.

I know body builders tend to use a combination of both clenbuterol and steroids, different doses at different times depending on what they're aiming to achieve. There's not much in the medical literature about how they would be used to build muscle mass, because it's too risky (risk of hypertension, stroke etc). But apparently in the bodybuilding world there are known regimes for use, presumably worked out by experimentation. I still can't believe the health risks some people will take to achieve their goals!

A vauge references about Endone for what its worth. Have to wait wont we.

On the Pies stuff , apparently doctors warned in the last 6/12 months about the the availability of this in gyms....but it will not be that , its was the NZ steaks.

 

[mac_cat]

Yes, all the fault of those nasty Kiwi farmers, who pump their cattle full of PEDs

 

[_Game_]

I am hearing they tested positive to clenbuterol. It is a substance which is used to treat asthma as it acts as a bronchodilator. For those of you familiar with physiology, the receptors which are found in the bronchioles (airways) are also found in the heart, so this has the added side effect of speeding up heart rate which leads to a high resting metabolic rate. This substance is used widely in bodybuilding circles as a cutting agent. As previously mentioned this increases resting metabolic rate allowing the individual to burn more calories and has also been shown to have anti catabolic (muscle sparing) and slight anabolic (muscle building) attributes in rats. I am not familiar with any human studies which prove this, but there you go.

 

[Turbocat]

As I said NZ steaks.....
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...oxic-meat-probed/story-fni5f22o-1227285331350

 

[vinum coupe]

AFL players for the most part are a bunch of blokes that kick a bag of wind around a paddock.
They are not Neurosurgeons.

When I worked with freeborn in the year he kicked 3 or 4 in the premiership for north, he had a jaffle every day.

Nothing more than bread and egg.
He always used a knife to open the sandwich, and a spoon to dig out the yolk and bin it. (because they couldnt eat yolk)

Day after day this happened.
And day after day he burnt his fingers.
They're a billion miles from neurosurgeons

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I am hearing they tested positive to clenbuterol. It is a substance which is used to treat asthma as it acts as a bronchodilator. For those of you familiar with physiology, the receptors which are found in the bronchioles (airways) are also found in the heart, so this has the added side effect of speeding up heart rate which leads to a high resting metabolic rate. This substance is used widely in bodybuilding circles as a cutting agent. As previously mentioned this increases resting metabolic rate allowing the individual to burn more calories and has also been shown to have anti catabolic (muscle sparing) and slight anabolic (muscle building) attributes in rats. I am not familiar with any human studies which prove this, but there you go.

I wish you posted more often _Game_!