List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[Defacto]

He could be, but as we've discussed on this point before, I really don't like the idea of defender/ruckmen.

I don't see why you would be intentionally upsetting your back six at any point.

how would you be upsetting them?

i'd rather the defender go to the bench when his ruck/fwd opponent does, or into the ruck when he does

than force him to play small

 

[tbarker]

GWS obviously rate the kid as they were desperate to get hold of pick 2 in that draft. I don't believe we get Kelly through a Tyson type deal nor will pick 6.

GWS would potentially be tossing up whether they lose Kelly for less next year as well as comparing him against who's available at pick 6. Also remember pick 6 will likely be used on an academy player, it would be more appealing if they banked that pick on someone else as well as getting the academy guys. Future draft pick trading may open up other avenues.

Good call. What I can say however is that Tyson was always leaving GWS so they did really well to get Pick 2 for him. Tyson and his family liked Melbourne. A "cultural fit" if you like and a connection to the club. Melbourne were rapt because they got a proven player who actually wanted to go to their club and they got Salem as well. A win win at the time.


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[Murraj1966]

Kelly would be amazing but knowing us it won't happen

 

[bird_man]

Kelly would be amazing but knowing us it won't happen

I can't see GWS letting Treloar and Kelly go in the same year.

 

[Periphery]

I can't see GWS letting Treloar and Kelly go in the same year.

With the trading of future picks it hardly matters. They'll be more desperate for points next year so if they can lock those in now why wouldn't they?

I'd happily offer them our first next year plus our 4th in both 2015 and 16. If they include Barrett I'd throw in our 3rd.

 

[_Maximus_12]

A pretty interesting read.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-05/crockers-know-the-ups-and-down-of-the-draft

 

[66sainter]

With the trading of future picks it hardly matters. They'll be more desperate for points next year so if they can lock those in now why wouldn't they?

I'd happily offer them our first next year plus our 4th in both 2015 and 16. If they include Barrett I'd throw in our 3rd.

in the 2018 draft they have 5 Academy players all in the AFL academy, they will need some seriously good draft picks to get some of them!

 

[dewah07]

While it would be nice to maybe land a Kelly or an Aish and even a Weller next year, it depresses the s**t out of me that our club is rebuilding so hard and dliligently within the confines of drafting and trading, and even if we get a decent top four team, we will come up against a absolutely rampant GWS who last year had 27 first round dps on their list and it is probably about 30 now.

We get casts offs like Bruce whom they didn't even use the pick we gave them and he is playing great football. They have Cameron, McCarthey. Patton, still on their books and just laugh when Boyd leaves.

They have about three thousand midfielders and we are blowing a gasket about a midfielder that cant even make it into their seniors.

I hold grave fears that our time will come from 2018-2022 just as the GWS are winning flag after flag.

The AFL made a monster in Sydney with their concessions and look at the entitlement culture there (read the Collis article in the Hun, talk about biting the hand that feeds you).

I think we and any other club will find it impossible to beat them in 3 years time.

And the worst part of it, even if they win three in a row, nobody in Western Sydney gives a flying fig about them.

All it would have done is tear the heart out of the traditional football heartland. Crowds are down 4% this year. Wait until GWS are unbeatable in 2-3 years and watch the interest plumment.

I'm fine with the concessions GWS got, have to give them a GUARENTEED shot at success IMO or else what's the point, also remember every other team signed off on them and nearly every recruiter I have heard speak about them think it's fair

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

No, just liked how he sorted the letters. There's only one Brian, fortunately.

Does he have any bargains?

 

[gringo2011]

Either that, or they have a s**t-tonne of equivalent talent tucked away due to having had an unprecedented amount of extraordinarily generous start-up concessions and now having a production line more coming through their academy....

True but it's like the flag ship picks those kind of picks. You would want them to make it more than others just for the credibility it gives.

 

[Murraj1966]

I'm fine with the concessions GWS got, have to give them a GUARENTEED shot at success IMO or else what's the point, also remember every other team signed off on them and nearly every recruiter I have heard speak about them think it's fair

If they didn't get a huge shot the team would never get off the ground.

They need success otherwise the club is dead in the water the only difference is that it will come at the expense of real clubs waiting for their first flag in decades but for their fans it will most likely end up like how i feel when the storm win the NRL

"Oh look at that that's nice"

 

[gringo2011]

A pretty interesting read.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-08-05/crockers-know-the-ups-and-down-of-the-draft

I liked little Barry. He played a super NAB game where he stood out above any of the other kids on the list. I thought he'd make it from that one game. Funny enough he looked like a Hawk- long raking leftie. Anyway I was wondering if they were brothers so thanks for that.

 

[God Save Max King]

While it would be nice to maybe land a Kelly or an Aish and even a Weller next year, it depresses the s**t out of me that our club is rebuilding so hard and dliligently within the confines of drafting and trading, and even if we get a decent top four team, we will come up against a absolutely rampant GWS who last year had 27 first round dps on their list and it is probably about 30 now.

We get casts offs like Bruce whom they didn't even use the pick we gave them and he is playing great football. They have Cameron, McCarthey. Patton, still on their books and just laugh when Boyd leaves.

They have about three thousand midfielders and we are blowing a gasket about a midfielder that cant even make it into their seniors.

I hold grave fears that our time will come from 2018-2022 just as the GWS are winning flag after flag.

The AFL made a monster in Sydney with their concessions and look at the entitlement culture there (read the Collis article in the Hun, talk about biting the hand that feeds you).

I think we and any other club will find it impossible to beat them in 3 years time.

And the worst part of it, even if they win three in a row, nobody in Western Sydney gives a flying fig about them.

All it would have done is tear the heart out of the traditional football heartland. Crowds are down 4% this year. Wait until GWS are unbeatable in 2-3 years and watch the interest plumment.

Joff, I enjoy taking a shot at NSW or the AFL but I think this is a bit harsh. Firstly, crowds are up on last year and your comments re Western Sydney are harsh, they're a 5 year club, every other club has been around for decades if not nearly 150 years.

Also, flags are never, ever guaranteed. GWS will probably win 1 (or more), but you just don't know that for sure (take us from 04-11 or Gold Coast right now). Their concessions were handed out because everyone thought they'd fail miserably and players would walk. I also wouldn't discount the mental pressure of playing late in September year after year after year. It's not easy. I'd also suggest that once their salary concessions end in 2019 or so, they'll have issues (as they will in '17).

 

[Joffaboy]

I'm fine with the concessions GWS got, have to give them a GUARENTEED shot at success IMO or else what's the point, also remember every other team signed off on them and nearly every recruiter I have heard speak about them think it's fair

Be that as it may, as can be seen on the back page of the Hun today, the commission will make you pay if you go against head office. All clubs would have been cowed by Demetriou and his renown vindictiveness.

Also clubs and recruiters are not supporters.

We have won one flag in 118 years, the club with all its failure has done a marvellous job selling us hope, because after all this is what clubs are built on.

Would we even bother if there was no hope for our club and its supporters absolutely starved of success?

But then there is this expansion. Gold Coast is a graveyard for sporting franchises from every type of sport. How AFL thinks it will flourish is anyone's guess.

GWS is just a white elephant. Nobody in the west could give a flying whatsit about football. The soccer team in the west has gazumped AFL, Rugby League is also dominant.

So we spend millions upon millions hand over fist, starve the rest of the competition of quality young players while they stockpile 30 first round dp's because they have to guarantee success?

I take exception at the AFL's thinking. They will manipulate and fix the competition so first an undeserving Sydney gets gifted two flags and now another Sydney club gets totally unfair assistance.

They are guaranteed success while teams like the Bulldogs, Melbourne, St.Kilda, Richmond etc, teams that have nearly two hundred thousand members between them are basically told they have to wait because the fix is in for GWS.

Well crowds are already down 4%. Wait until this Frankenstein bastard AFL lovechild is invincible, which they will be.

Are you willing to wait another cycle, which will take us into probably the ;late 2020's to have a realistic chance?

Because that's what looks like happening. Where is the next flag coming from guys, ask yourself that?

 

[Joffaboy]

Joff, I enjoy taking a shot at NSW or the AFL but I think this is a bit harsh. Firstly, crowds are up on last year and your comments re Western Sydney are harsh, they're a 5 year club, every other club has been around for decades if not nearly 150 years.

Also, flags are never, ever guaranteed. GWS will probably win 1 (or more), but you just don't know that for sure (take us from 04-11 or Gold Coast right now). Their concessions were handed out because everyone thought they'd fail miserably and players would walk. I also wouldn't discount the mental pressure of playing late in September year after year after year. It's not easy. I'd also suggest that once their salary concessions end in 2019 or so, they'll have issues (as they will in '17).

Well I have NEVER been in favour of this bastard love child leeching money and players from the AFL real teams.

It is a huge white elephant, and it is a complete travesty they have been allowed to do this.

I am sure their two to three hundred members and their hundreds of supporters will be delighted when they win multiply flags.

Meanwhile we have the 1966 cup to look at I suppose.....

 

[Barrels]

how would you be upsetting them?

i'd rather the defender go to the bench when his ruck/fwd opponent does, or into the ruck when he does

than force him to play small

Let's say the lineup is

FB: Webster - McKay - Lee*
HB: McKenzie - Goddard - Savage

You might get away with it, insofar as Lee can move to a KPD spot when McKay goes into the ruck.

If you're including another small, or smaller player back there then for mine it's gambling a lot.

*Lee as the next-gen Dempster in this scenario.

 

[L_W_P]

The AFL arent worried about the money for GWS right now. It's not about getting this generation of fans to fall in love with the game.

The idea is that by having a game in NSW/Canberra every week the AFL stay in the minds of all the kids. Not all of them are going to grow up die hard League/Union fans.

In 10/15/20 years time they will all have grown up and will have disposable income and families of their own. AFL then becomes a genuine option.

If just 1% of the people living in the GWS catchment sign up as members then they are looking at 25-30,000 members. That would be massive, especially compared to the numbers put up by NRL clubs.

As for the concessions - Most experts said they needed the mini drafts etc because senior players wouldnt want to go there. That Gold Coast had the advantage of a prime location where as GWS were in no man's land.

Dont under-estimate the job the Giants have done in selling that team to guys like Shaw, Mumford, Griffen and Patfull.

They were given an inch and have taken miles and miles.

That said - they still have to actually WIN. By the time 2018 rolls around who knows where their list will be at?

They might trade out McCarthy only for Stewart to walk to Collingwood the following year. The Patton doea his knee again and they are stuffed for forwards.

Can Mumford play that long? They dont really have a ruckman that can fill his shoes as shown by the back end of this year.

Lots of question marks over their "locked in domination".

 

[Barrels]

Well I have NEVER been in favour of this bastard love child leeching money and players from the AFL real teams.

It is a huge white elephant, and it is a complete travesty they have been allowed to do this.

I am sure their two to three hundred members and their hundreds of supporters will be delighted when they win multiply flags.

Meanwhile we have the 1966 cup to look at I suppose.....

Not just the straight-out concessions and cash, but first-dibs over the entire Riverina heartland.

 

[Mstr Strokesman]

Let's say the lineup is

FB: Webster - McKay - Lee*
HB: McKenzie - Goddard - Savage

You might get away with it, insofar as Lee can move to a KPD spot when McKay goes into the ruck.

If you're including another small, or smaller player back there then for mine it's gambling a lot.

*Lee as the next-gen Dempster in this scenario.

No No No .Not for this at all .
Never compromise the backline .

 

[Persevering Saint]

While it would be nice to maybe land a Kelly or an Aish and even a Weller next year, it depresses the s**t out of me that our club is rebuilding so hard and dliligently within the confines of drafting and trading, and even if we get a decent top four team, we will come up against a absolutely rampant GWS who last year had 27 first round dps on their list and it is probably about 30 now.

We get casts offs like Bruce whom they didn't even use the pick we gave them and he is playing great football. They have Cameron, McCarthey. Patton, still on their books and just laugh when Boyd leaves.

They have about three thousand midfielders and we are blowing a gasket about a midfielder that cant even make it into their seniors.

I hold grave fears that our time will come from 2018-2022 just as the GWS are winning flag after flag.

The AFL made a monster in Sydney with their concessions and look at the entitlement culture there (read the Collis article in the Hun, talk about biting the hand that feeds you).

I think we and any other club will find it impossible to beat them in 3 years time.

And the worst part of it, even if they win three in a row, nobody in Western Sydney gives a flying fig about them.

All it would have done is tear the heart out of the traditional football heartland. Crowds are down 4% this year. Wait until GWS are unbeatable in 2-3 years and watch the interest plumment.

Yes, but there's also what I call the IFOG factor: "It's a Funny Old Game". Just remember Gold Coast Suns, and the season they're having. They were given tons of concessions, and had had a steady progression and rise that was playing to AFL script beautifully... now look at them. If it can happen to Plastic 1, it can happen to Plastic 2. I'm not saying it will, I'm just saying, hey, it's a funny old game, and it's very, very rare that everything plays out the way everybody expects.

 

[Barrels]

No No No .Not for this at all .
Never compromise the backline .

Agreed.

Not at all keen on the idea.

 

[Rors]

While it would be nice to maybe land a Kelly or an Aish and even a Weller next year, it depresses the s**t out of me that our club is rebuilding so hard and dliligently within the confines of drafting and trading, and even if we get a decent top four team, we will come up against a absolutely rampant GWS who last year had 27 first round dps on their list and it is probably about 30 now.

We get casts offs like Bruce whom they didn't even use the pick we gave them and he is playing great football. They have Cameron, McCarthey. Patton, still on their books and just laugh when Boyd leaves.

They have about three thousand midfielders and we are blowing a gasket about a midfielder that cant even make it into their seniors.

I hold grave fears that our time will come from 2018-2022 just as the GWS are winning flag after flag.

The AFL made a monster in Sydney with their concessions and look at the entitlement culture there (read the Collis article in the Hun, talk about biting the hand that feeds you).

I think we and any other club will find it impossible to beat them in 3 years time.

And the worst part of it, even if they win three in a row, nobody in Western Sydney gives a flying fig about them.

All it would have done is tear the heart out of the traditional football heartland. Crowds are down 4% this year. Wait until GWS are unbeatable in 2-3 years and watch the interest plumment.

It comes down to whether they have the right coach though. If they have the wrong coach, everything could unravel.

Everyone is saying what a good job Leon Cameron is doing.... I'm sitting back saying, well, youve got 20 1st round draft picks on your list, your team should be going well. But its the next step up that will be the litmus test. Once you enter the top 4, you can have all the talent in the world & still not be the team that is in front on the scoreboard come the final saturday in september. Game plan is crucial & we wont know how good they are until they get there

Look at Hawthorn as an example.... They lost the most dynamic KPF the game has arguably ever seen & they got better?!?! The coaches & game plan play the biggest part of all IMHO

 

[_Maximus_12]

It comes down to whether they have the right coach though. If they have the wrong coach, everything could unravel.

Everyone is saying what a good job Leon Cameron is doing.... I'm sitting back saying, well, youve got 20 1st round draft picks on your list, your team should be going well. But its the next step up that will be the litmus test. Once you enter the top 4, you can have all the talent in the world & still not be the team that is in front on the scoreboard come the final saturday in september. Game plan is crucial & we wont know how good they are until they get there

Look at Hawthorn as an example.... They lost the most dynamic KPF the game has arguably ever seen & they got better?!?! The coaches & game plan play the biggest part of all IMHO

Hawthorn never had Wayne Carey to lose

 

[Defacto]

Let's say the lineup is

FB: Webster - McKay - Lee*
HB: McKenzie - Goddard - Savage

You might get away with it, insofar as Lee can move to a KPD spot when McKay goes into the ruck.

If you're including another small, or smaller player back there then for mine it's gambling a lot.

*Lee as the next-gen Dempster in this scenario.

where does the other KPD for lee to take come from? wasnt he already there? regardless of the resting ruck?

the only time i see it being an issue for the structure down back is if the ruckman goes down injured

 

[Mowman]

Let's say the lineup is

FB: Webster - McKay - Lee*
HB: McKenzie - Goddard - Savage

You might get away with it, insofar as Lee can move to a KPD spot when McKay goes into the ruck.

If you're including another small, or smaller player back there then for mine it's gambling a lot.

*Lee as the next-gen Dempster in this scenario.

That really is an insult to Dempster . Wouldn't be surprised if he is gone at the end of this year, contract or no contract