While he did miss the point it should be noted that Australian manufacturing was having trouble before the mining boom. The car industry has been getting subsidies for over 70 years.
$275mill for Holden ...Help me understand
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While he did miss the point it should be noted that Australian manufacturing was having trouble before the mining boom. The car industry has been getting subsidies for over 70 years.
More than this, the government hasn't paid out a cent from it, but has collected millions in insurance. It has actually profited from the arrangement.
The real negative affect of it was that it hurt many of the smaller players who were not part of the scheme.
Moo
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We need manufacturing to get big and profitable so that we can apply the super profits tax and eventually counter declining mining profits.
Some good vids by those guys. I really liked the why women make less money one. Have been saying it all along. It is what I find so funny about that "equal pay for equal work" crap the government came up with.
Mofra
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... which would catastophically destroy every industry in Australia as capital flows completely stop, our international rating is slashed making private and public debt more expensive leading to massive budget deficits putting us on the path to a meltdown that would make Greece look like a cabaret show.
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- #56
It prevented an unwarranted run on the banks. Thank Christ him and Ken Henry were running the show during the GFC and not a madman like you!
Through lower rates of taxation on their company profits funded by removing government programs like this $275 million South Australian support payment.
How do you propose this should be done?
It would slow capital flows, it wouldn't stop them. Our international rating would not be slashed, however the cost of borrowing money will increase. It will prevent us from ever becoming like Greece, our current path is taking us towards that end.
Tax cuts should certainly be balanced by a reduction in spending. However it is important to note that tax cuts can generate increased tax revenues.
Off the top of my head (the full list could go for several pages)
- removing subsidises to Australian industry
- pursuing free trade agreements with our trade partners
- de-regulating the labor market
- reducing and streamlining taxes on business and Australian citizens
- decreasing the size of government
Above all else, protecting and enforcing private property rights.
rayven
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Americans threatened to build holdens in America, they need it.
So we lost 200 million worth of car building cause they got built in America, well 200 million investment to stop that might eventualy work ut as only 50 by the time goveremnt gets it back anyway...
Workers spend those earnings, where? apart from the drug culture n Elizabeth that ultimatly invests in the CIA, most goes to KFC, mcdonalds and cheep beer brewers...
Go to Holdens Elizabeth and work it out...
But new cars are not what we want, unless they replace gas guzzlers..no point building v8's anymore... you will never get the carbon footprint back.
ethonol power is actualy worse considering the food shortage...
So we lost 200 million worth of car building cause they got built in America, well 200 million investment to stop that might eventualy work ut as only 50 by the time goveremnt gets it back anyway...
Workers spend those earnings, where? apart from the drug culture n Elizabeth that ultimatly invests in the CIA, most goes to KFC, mcdonalds and cheep beer brewers...
Go to Holdens Elizabeth and work it out...
But new cars are not what we want, unless they replace gas guzzlers..no point building v8's anymore... you will never get the carbon footprint back.
ethonol power is actualy worse considering the food shortage...
We could easily reduce company tax rates through cutting such items as industry support expenditures; a policy decision made to simply keep inefficient industries afloat for a few votes.
Ditto individual income tax cuts as well.
Nothing specific then, just the usual far-right fanboi stuff.
- abolishing the minimum wage
- abolish the welfare state - (dole, baby bonus, first home buyers etc)
- reducing government to defence, police, setting the rules regarding private property, providing a judiciary function for people to settle their disputes
- abolishing all taxes except for a tax on consumption
- remove the RBA and allow the market to set rates of interest
- make fractional reserve banking illegal
- remove the government's monopoly on the supply of money, i.e. allow banks to issue their own currency as we did prior to 1914
- re-instate the gold standard
- bring back Workchoices
That would make us a 3rd world country.
Sorry, if you truly believe this stuff I can't take you seriously. I'll leave this thread here.
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Agreed. We have a fringe-element from Tassie here who's read too much Lew Rockwell. These people exist on nothing more than thought experiments.
3rd world countries do these things? News to me. Of course the mainstream think these things antithesis to prosperity, but the mainstream thinks consumption + inflation = wealth. Massive lols. I take your absence as a clue to the depth of your knowledge.
Hey Clay, keep that copy of the General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money beside your bed while those of us that understand economics prepare for the inevitable economic failure of the west.
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- #69
I don't keep any economics book besides my bed, thankfully, but tell me, if the economic failure of the west is inevitable, which countries are putting in place your wingnut prescriptions so I know where to relocate before the s**t hits the fan. Which countries have moved to the gold standard, have made FRB illegal and don't have a central bank?
What's your preparation for this inevitable economic failure, by the way? Buying gold? Look out for tungsten, mate.
DaftPunk
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There are a few reasons why car manufacturing needs subsidies. The first and most important is that most developed countries subsize their car industry! Google Canadian car subsidies, reads almost exactly like Australia's (innovation, investment etc etc). Germany, Japan, the USA and even China (!!!) subsidize their car industry! Secondly car manufacturing is also seen as a massively important industry, that also can be seen as a self servicing and dependent base in times of trouble (in other words... If we go to war we have a base from which to produce machinery within our own country). Deep down this is the real reason why the government (left or right) will not let the industry disappear.
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German and Japanese car manufacturers receiving subsidies is not on its own an automatic justification for the Australian government handing out subsidies to car manufacturers operating in Australia.
I mean 'Australia's small car' the Holden Cruze is produced in 11 locations around the World and is really nothing to write home about. It's not a lemon, but it's not like starting to produce a 4 cylinder medium sized sedan in the last 2 years is a World beating achievement.
I love the fact that we still produce Holdens and Fords, but there's far too much 'it's too hard, it's not fair, we'll be better in 5 years we promise' going on.
I mean 'Australia's small car' the Holden Cruze is produced in 11 locations around the World and is really nothing to write home about. It's not a lemon, but it's not like starting to produce a 4 cylinder medium sized sedan in the last 2 years is a World beating achievement.
I love the fact that we still produce Holdens and Fords, but there's far too much 'it's too hard, it's not fair, we'll be better in 5 years we promise' going on.
DaftPunk
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The point is car manufacturers can't be competitive without subsidies. It an economists nightmare, but that because governments see the importance of a car manufacturing base in the need to self sufficient.
Isn't the most famous definition of insanity continuing to do the same thing but expecting a different result? Sounds relevant here.
All car companies need to be more bold (especially given govts subsidise them anyway...i.e free R&D). Electricity, hybrids, hydrogen & now compressed natural gas. All technologies that have worked for up to decades but still not yet commercialised (obviously protectionist interest groups have contributed to holding them back). A cornerstone of a lot of industries now is that new technologies become obsolete sooner rather than later, yet cars have essentially stayed the same. Oil prices + emissions targets = same old cars doesn't work anymore so let's change it up.
All car companies need to be more bold (especially given govts subsidise them anyway...i.e free R&D). Electricity, hybrids, hydrogen & now compressed natural gas. All technologies that have worked for up to decades but still not yet commercialised (obviously protectionist interest groups have contributed to holding them back). A cornerstone of a lot of industries now is that new technologies become obsolete sooner rather than later, yet cars have essentially stayed the same. Oil prices + emissions targets = same old cars doesn't work anymore so let's change it up.
DaftPunk
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Innovation will never come from Australia because all the car makers here are global giants. They will take the government money then move any 'innovation' to wear it can be most profitability utilized (make it somewhere in Asia). Perhaps the government could buy 1000 robots to make the cars! Surely they could turn a profit with that, and it secures the supply chain that employs 20times as many people as the assembly side does... (innovation!!)
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