Expansion 3rd Western Australian club

[TWLS]

A demerger of Brisbane Lions, allowing Fitzroy to return to the AFL and Victoria, makes as much sense as a third Perth team. You can use all the same arguments.

• great stadium(s)
• growing population. Base them in an expanding area
• Some games are sold out (could be up to a dozen in Melbourne this season) so there must be fans missing out, who would potentially support the new club
• 16/17 local derbies v other Vic clubs
• they would average 20k (up to 50k v Big 4, 10k v GWS/GC/Port/Freo)

And , just like WA3, it makes no sense because it does not grow the game, and because no one is calling for it. The only people who would profit from having extra derbies in WA are the WAFL, and they have zero interest in another team.

Has anybody on here who lives in Perth thinks that will the Eagles have to put a cap on their membership eventually. The Dockers are in a totally different scenario at this time and will continue to grow steadily.

 

[Walshawk]

Has anybody on here who lives in Perth thinks that will the Eagles have to put a cap on their membership eventually. The Dockers are in a totally different scenario at this time and will continue to grow steadily.

Why would they cap it? Only half of their members currently get a seat now. Same with Carlton, Geelong, Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon.

 

[Rob]

Has anybody on here who lives in Perth thinks that will the Eagles have to put a cap on their membership eventually. The Dockers are in a totally different scenario at this time and will continue to grow steadily.

They already cap it, and have done so for 20 years or so. Entry memberships anyway. You can sell as many waiting list and trinket memberships as you like.

 

[kranger]

A demerger of Brisbane Lions, allowing Fitzroy to return to the AFL and Victoria, makes as much sense as a third Perth team. You can use all the same arguments.

• great stadium(s)
• growing population. Base them in an expanding area
• Some games are sold out (could be up to a dozen in Melbourne this season) so there must be fans missing out, who would potentially support the new club
• 16/17 local derbies v other Vic clubs
• they would average 20k (up to 50k v Big 4, 10k v GWS/GC/Port/Freo)

And , just like WA3, it makes no sense because it does not grow the game, and because no one is calling for it. The only people who would profit from having extra derbies in WA are the WAFL, and they have zero interest in another team.

Two points of difference. Victoria has a handful of existing struggling clubs who rely on handouts. Adults are able to attend AFL games in Victoria for as little as $20. Neither of which are the case in WA.

 

[RedV3x]

There's already a WAFL team called Perth,

Yes.

otherwise West Coast would have used that name in 1987.

No they chose West Coast and later the memebers voted to retain that name in favour of "Perth".

 

[flamingEMBERS]

The only way a 3rd WA team would work is if it is called Perth

 

[Royalbeagle]

I still think the best option would be for a new team to be called Perth.

Perth Sharks. Playing at the new stadium.

Perth could handle having 3 teams, all playing out of Optus stadium.

Better use of such a great facility. Perth has 2.1million people so it'd be a good fit for a new club.

They should be called The Redlegs, The Black Swans, or The Sandgropers imo.

 

[Coolangatta]

They should be called The Redlegs, The Black Swans, or The Sandgropers imo.

Bump.

If they go with WA3 instead of ACT or NT/Northern Australia, I think the Perth Pirates in lime green and black would be a decent choice. It's original and distinct from any WAFL clubs and the colours don't clash with the Eagles or Dockers.

Port had the chance to call themselves the Pirates, it was a missed opportunity.

The Perth Sharks in blue and black would also be pretty cool, but the Sharks name and Royals colours are a little bit WAFL linked and the Eagles already have blue.

 

[kranger]

Well between the Cities of Wanneroo and Joondalup they are projected to grow from 320,000 to 740,000 residents by 2050. At that time Perth would have a population of 3.5million, with the 400,000 additional residents in Joondalup and Wanneroo being a third of all additional residents from Perth’s current population of 2.2million.

That could be your target area. Especially when you add in the population of the City of Swan which includes areas like Ellenbrook and Bullsbrook etc with an overall population projection to grow from 110,000 to 290,000 residents.

https://www.dplh.wa.gov.au/perth-and-peel-@-3-5-million-frameworks

You could split Perth into thirds, each with about 1million residents to feed from.

The third team sets up in Joondalup to focus on all the suburbs north of Reid Hwy.

The Eagles take a focus on the central suburbs south of Reid Hwy and north of Leach Hwy, focused around their base at Mineral Resources Park.

And Freo take the southern suburbs and Peel that are south of Leach Hwy focused around the HQ at Cockburn (including Fremantle).

Going back to the above premise of splitting Perth into three (Freo south of Leach Hwy, new team north of Reid Hwy, and Eagles in between). In this idea, each of the Perth teams would only do school and club visits in their third and have their training fields locally.

I’ve shown the break down of Perth’s current population, based on the current electoral boundaries in a visualised way. Because visuals are a good way for a lot of people to grasp some information.

Each circle represents about 45,000 residents currently (with Perth’s population of 2.2m, not based on the projections of Perth’s population when at 3.5m). The darker circle contains the training ground for each team (Dockers - Cockburn, Eagles - Lathlain, team 3 - Joondalup).

Current Boundaries | Electoral Boundaries WA

www.boundaries.wa.gov.au

The electorate and therefore population break down is as follows:

Dockers - 15 electorates - 675,000
Eagles - 18 electorates - 810,000
Team 3 - 11 electorates - 495,000

Now obviously people currently aren’t so location based with supporting Freo or eagles, and if a team 3 comes in, people will still support each team from different parts of the city.

But there also isn’t any other way to break Perth down so that a new team can create a local identity with a big enough population.

Just look at the Peel region from Rockingham to Mandurah. That is 6 circles (270,000) at best and borders onto the suburb where Freo’s hq is. And Freo is aligned with Peel in the WAFL. Try and base it around Swan Districts and the Swan Valley and it is no better.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Going back to the above premise of splitting Perth into three (Freo south of Leach Hwy, new team north of Reid Hwy, and Eagles in between). In this idea, each of the Perth teams would only do school and club visits in their third and have their training fields locally.

Interesting idea, and I'm mostly in favour. But I wonder if the Eagles are being given too great an area. Maybe the Canning River (and then the Swan after the Canning meets it) should be the Eagles-Freo boundary.

 

[Bjo187]

Going back to the above premise of splitting Perth into three (Freo south of Leach Hwy, new team north of Reid Hwy, and Eagles in between). In this idea, each of the Perth teams would only do school and club visits in their third and have their training fields locally.

I’ve shown the break down of Perth’s current population, based on the current electoral boundaries in a visualised way. Because visuals are a good way for a lot of people to grasp some information.

Each circle represents about 45,000 residents currently (with Perth’s population of 2.2m, not based on the projections of Perth’s population when at 3.5m). The darker circle contains the training ground for each team (Dockers - Cockburn, Eagles - Lathlain, team 3 - Joondalup).

Current Boundaries | Electoral Boundaries WA

www.boundaries.wa.gov.au

The electorate and therefore population break down is as follows:

Dockers - 15 electorates - 675,000
Eagles - 18 electorates - 810,000
Team 3 - 11 electorates - 495,000

Now obviously people currently aren’t so location based with supporting Freo or eagles, and if a team 3 comes in, people will still support each team from different parts of the city.

But there also isn’t any other way to break Perth down so that a new team can create a local identity with a big enough population.

Just look at the Peel region from Rockingham to Mandurah. That is 6 circles (270,000) at best and borders onto the suburb where Freo’s hq is. And Freo is aligned with Peel in the WAFL. Try and base it around Swan Districts and the Swan Valley and it is no better.

Completely agree regarding teams only being able to visit schools in their own zone, Joondalup being the only viable location and the new club should play 3 or 4 games per year in Joondalup, to make them feel local at least initially. That's the best chance they have of gaining a supporter base in an otherwise established market.

 

[RedV3x]

But there also isn’t any other way to break Perth down so that a new team can create a local identity with a big enough population.

Yes there is East of Perth - Eagles to the North, Dockers to the South and Ellenbrook to Armadale to the East.

 

[kranger]

Yes there is East of Perth - Eagles to the North, Dockers to the South and Ellenbrook to Armadale to the East.

That could be a good way to break it down (north, south and east). Just a shame the Eagles built their HQ at Lathlain Park which is so far from the north. Perhaps keep team 3 in the north, and instead of the Eagles being the central team, they are the east team.

 

[Bjo187]

That could be a good way to break it down (north, south and east). Just a shame the Eagles built their HQ at Lathlain Park which is so far from the north. Perhaps keep team 3 in the north, and instead of the Eagles being the central team, they are the east team.

Where is the biggest growth corridor? A new club would wanna be tapping into the new families market for supporters I'd imagine.

 

[Coolangatta]

Where is the biggest growth corridor? A new club would wanna be tapping into the new families market for supporters I'd imagine.

This is key.

And what would you call them? East Perth? North Perth? Or just Perth?

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have them, as said here, 3 home games at a smaller ground (east or north of Perth) to tap into the local market. They'd still get 10 games at Optus (8 home and 2 away).

Then if the club becomes big enough, they'd play all their home games at Optus.

Still think Canberra should be team 20, though, but we'll see what happens.

 

[Rob]

That could be a good way to break it down (north, south and east). Just a shame the Eagles built their HQ at Lathlain Park which is so far from the north. Perhaps keep team 3 in the north, and instead of the Eagles being the central team, they are the east team.

Why do you think the location of the training ground matters so much?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Where is the biggest growth corridor? A new club would wanna be tapping into the new families market for supporters I'd imagine.

Using projections at forecast.id.com.au:

• the City of Wanneroo (north and east of Joondalup) had 216,435 people in 2021 and is forecast to grow to 367,775 by 2041 (gain of 151,340 or 70%).
• the City of Swan (containing the Ellenbrook area) had 158,703 people in 2021 and is forecast to grow to 253,282 by 2041 (gain of 94,579 or 60%).

The answer is pretty clear to me, the City of Wanneroo is the biggest growth corridor in the West. It has more people than the City of Swan now and it's growing faster. And the biggest growth corridor in that council is from Alkimos to Eglinton to Yanchep.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to have them, as said here, 3 home games at a smaller ground (east or north of Perth) to tap into the local market. They'd still get 10 games at Optus (8 home and 2 away).

Arena Joondalup is the obvious answer. According to Austadiums it can hold 12 500, but I don't know how much of that is seated.

 

[Bjo187]

Using projections at forecast.id.com.au:

• the City of Wanneroo (north and east of Joondalup) had 216,435 people in 2021 and is forecast to grow to 367,775 by 2041 (gain of 151,340 or 70%).
• the City of Swan (containing the Ellenbrook area) had 158,703 people in 2021 and is forecast to grow to 253,282 by 2041 (gain of 94,579 or 60%).

The answer is pretty clear to me, the City of Wanneroo is the biggest growth corridor in the West. It has more people than the City of Swan now and it's growing faster. And the biggest growth corridor in that council is from Alkimos to Eglinton to Yanchep.


Arena Joondalup is the obvious answer. According to Austadiums it can hold 12 500, but I don't know how much of that is seated.

There is actually room to add a train station in there too, right outside the ground. The line already goes past there.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There is actually room to add a train station in there too, right outside the ground. The line already goes past there.

Maybe, although I wouldn't call it right outside the ground.



You can see the stadium in the north-east corner of the image above, and the railway line snaking from the south-east corner to the middle west, before it enters a tunnel and re-emerges in the middle of the freeway in the north-west corner. I'm told that it's bad practice to put a railway station on a curve, so it'd have to be in the straight stretch before the tunnel, near where the oval in the southern middle is. Maybe that's doable, although it's a bit constrained by the oval and the electrical substation on the other side. If it is possible, then it's about a 450m walk to the ground at its shortest extent. Enough room to put some restaurants and pubs.

But I wonder if it'd also be an idea to run a light rail line up from Joondalup CBD, along either Grand Blvd/Moore Dr (road just north of the stadium) or Joondalup Dr (road just east of the stadium).

 

[RedV3x]

Just a shame the Eagles built their HQ at Lathlain Park which is so far from the north.

Absolutely. If they'd built at Stirling then Perth would have had an extra WAFL ground say for Subiaco
and WA3 would have had a potential home.

Perhaps keep team 3 in the north, and instead of the Eagles being the central team,

The Eagles are definitely a "West Coast" side and NOT a Northern side or central side.
If anything, Perth and East of the Swan River belongs to the Dockers.

they are the east team.

The aboriginal influence is much stronger in the East and support is stronger for the Dockers.

 

[neogh]

I'm doing a personal project on branding a WA3 side and would like any Sandgropers to help this Eastern moron who hasn't had the chance to visit the West out.

As we all know a 20th team is going to be inevitable in the future, given 1) only few seasons in the VFL/AFL has consisted of odd-numbered teams and 2) more $$$ in the eyes of the AFL.

People have their eyes on either NT or ACT (especially the latter on BigFooty) as the candidates and I'd really like Darwin represented in the comp...if not had been for the lack of population, proper infrastructure and all the factors combined that could come at a massive loss to the AFL and the Territorial government, and I'm not bought into the Canberra as the 20th team.

Interestingly, WA3 and SA3 is considered the dark-horse option for many (as mentioned most are on the NT/ACT ship), but at the same time I find it neglected by its locate statesman because of the presence of the two local teams.

Despite Perth being a footy-rich city than Canberra, a recently built stadium that can be used more often, and Perth itself having a solid, growing population, what are the problems of a 3rd WA side from a local point of view?

 

[stallon]

I dont know of any reasons not to have a 3rd team here from a WA perspective, I can only see benefits, unless im missing something. All the wce members on the wait list will be able to get a membership, an extra game in perth each year to help make up for some of the travel, and would offset the extra away game that is gather round without having to give an extra home game.

I think its just down to where do the AFL want it most, I cant see the NT getting the team, theyll have huge issues retaining players, and Canberra is GWS territory, not sure if theyd want to take it off them when the team is so young.
For me the only 2 options are WA and SA, with WA being the better candidate for reasons I mentioned above, along with being a bigger state than SA

 

[Priddis Is Done]

No issue

But cut 4 x teams from Melb

 

[jc37]

Not a sandgroper but I think the issue is what would the teams connection be?
Fremantle and West Coast have loyal bases where would the next one be. I am not sure there is an obvious answer for that.

 

[bzparkes]

1. Who would they represent?
2. WA talent pathways aren't that great currently due to a lack of incentive from Freo & WCE to invest in them. Why bother when your best players go to other clubs?
3. There's already a significant difference in the amount of WCE supporters to Freo ones. A third team just dilutes it further.

It's not a terrible idea but I'm unsure Perth has the population to significantly support a third team, considering most supporters are already entrenched.

Freo worked because it wasn't that many years since the Eagles had joined the competition and as much as we like to bag Freo supporters for turncoating on the Eagles, the reality is a lot of them were WAFL supporters who didn't end up following WCE and probably changed from half following a VFL team to following Freo.

Current times don't really have that dynamic, so I'm struggling to see why anyone would make the switch from supporting Freo or WCE currently.