Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

[Clubs are trumps]

It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?

Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.

 

[vealesy]

You realise that anti-vacc does not equal "anti-science"?

 

[Partridge]

You realise that anti-vacc does not equal "anti-science"?

Yes it does. Pretty clearly too. Vaccination is a technique of modern medicine which is itself modern science. Deny that and you are absolutely "anti-science".

 

[vealesy]

I dont deny it, i just choose not to participate willingly.

 

[Pie eyed]

You realise that anti-vacc does not equal "anti-science"?

Anti-evidence?

 

[vealesy]

Anti-bullshit. See my first post ITT.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Yes it does. Pretty clearly too. Vaccination is a technique of modern medicine which is itself modern science. Deny that and you are absolutely "anti-science".

Ignoring evidence of major vaccination side effects is also anti-science.

 

[Sanders]

Ignoring evidence of major vaccination side effects is also anti-science.

Not really

Get some some serious Cochrane institute meta validation and we talk.

 

[Pie eyed]

Ignoring evidence of major vaccination side effects is also anti-science.

Who is denying said evidence?
It is clear vaccinations all have some side effects ranging from the extremely small hole in you epidermis to death from infection caused by slipshod sterilization.
Cars have side effects, as do bikes, electricity, water, eating of any kind, breathing, not breathing, living on air, marriage, circumcision, birth control, pain relief, all medicines, all surgery, any form of transplant, work, exercise, sport, diets.................
The list is...endless................
Get me the stats on how many people die from eating related side effects every year.
Then give up food.....

Then sell your car, skip the sometimes fatal bus and/or taxi.

OH well you won;t be able to do anything else so you won;t need to go to work, not needing money for any reason,least of all the risk of dying from a virus transferred by the highly unsanitary notes you need to spend.

Most sane people understand the concepts of acceptable or manageable risk.

As for the others ...who cares...let them die miserable deaths....just not at my expense.

 

[Lester Burnham]

You seem to have taken sides on the issue. And what you wrote is a non sequitur to my previous posts.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

You seem to have taken sides on the issue. And what you wrote is a non sequitur to my previous posts.

Do you dispute that vaccination is one of the most effective forms of preventative medicine, ever invented. It sits alongside modern sanitation and antiseptics as one of mankinds greatest health and technological achievements.

Immunization accounts for hundreds of millions, of saved lives and has helped infinitely more achieve an improved quality of living. As a preventative measure it is a tool that has been used to eliminate some of the most deadly diseases this species has encountered.

Like all medications, vaccinations can have side effects. That is why most developed nations have stringent and arduous approval processes and vaccines are often administered by trained medical professionals. Definitely not perfect, the pharmaceutical industry is afterall driven by profit, however the role of immunization is one of prominance and is critical to social health, wellbeing (measurable in lives, productivity and dollars) and our collective herd immunity.

 

[vealesy]

More people living does not equal improved quality of living. We are highly overpopulated.

 

[Partridge]

More people living does not equal improved quality of living. We are highly overpopulated.

Most people live lives people 100 years ago couldn't have dreamed of.

Yeah we're living longer but not better. That makes sense.

Yes there is overpopulation, but that's a different argument.

 

[Pie eyed]

You seem to have taken sides on the issue. And what you wrote is a non sequitur to my previous posts.

Of course I have an opinion on the usefulness of vaccination.
It clearly is an extremely effective way to save millions of lives.
That does not mean I am oblivious to the risks...of any activity.

Ever minute of our existence is a choice between ever present and unavoidable risks.

Some are so clearly acceptable that I rarely give them a second thought. Getting in my car to travel..anywhere and vaccination are two.

I've said before I can understand Vealesy, in particular having the view he/she/ has, but that doe not in any way vindicate it.
If every agreed with him/her, millions of people would be dead....him/her include, or have never been born, their forbears being dead.

 

[Pie eyed]

More people living does not equal improved quality of living. We are highly overpopulated.

Whether we should keep the weak alive with technology is a completely separate discussion.
I firmly belief that all "reality TV" participants, whether producer, "talent" (through up in my mouth) or audience, should be left in the snow to their fate like Inuits.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Do you dispute that vaccination is one of the most effective forms of preventative medicine, ever invented. It sits alongside modern sanitation and antiseptics as one of mankinds greatest health and technological achievements.

Immunization accounts for hundreds of millions, of saved lives and has helped infinitely more achieve an improved quality of living. As a preventative measure it is a tool that has been used to eliminate some of the most deadly diseases this species has encountered.

I would largely agree with what you have said. You have a balanced view of the subject rather than taking a side.

However, I would say vaccination has helped to eliminate some of the most deadly diseases. There are environmental and nutritional factors that serve to dramatically reduce infection rates in developed countries. In modern day Australia we see much higher rates of cervical cancer, attributed to HPV, in remote and disadvantaged communities than in affluent, inner cities.

You seem to use the words vaccination and immunisation interchangeably. Vaccination does not guarantee immunity, and immunity can be gained naturally.

Like all medications, vaccinations can have side effects. That is why most developed nations have stringent and arduous approval processes and vaccines are often administered by trained medical professionals. Definitely not perfect, the pharmaceutical industry is afterall driven by profit, however the role of immunization is one of prominance and is critical to social health, wellbeing (measurable in lives, productivity and dollars) and our collective herd immunity.

Again I mostly agree with you. However...

Vaccination is probably of most benefit in developing countries but also where stringent and arduous approval processes are less likely to be followed. I have quoted an example where a leading researcher concluded that 1/2 million deaths saved by the withdrawal of a particular vaccine.

In most countries the members of advisory boards that approve vaccines have past or present links to the pharmaceutical industry which could lead to conflicts of interest and unwise government decisions. For example, after CSL's Fluvax had 2136 reports of "adverse events" and subsequently banned for under 5s, it was revealed that the chairman of the Health Department's immunisation advisory committee, Terry Nolan, and fellow member Peter Richmond, had supervised pediatric trials of flu vaccines for CSL. Another adviser, Anne Kelso -- who helped draw up Australia's response to the swine flu outbreak in 2009 -- held an undisclosed number of shares in CSL, which won a $131 million government contract to supply Australia's stockpile of swine flu vaccine. The rules were changed but the problem in many other countries remains prominent.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ti-flu-vaccines/story-e6frg8y6-1226441791947#
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ust-be-disclosed/story-fn59nokw-1226407029505

 

[Admiral Byng]

They have been forced to change names. They are now the Australia Vaccination-Skeptics Netowrk.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-...oup-changes-its-name-after-complaints/5312910

 

[Pie eyed]

They have been forced to change names. They are now the Australia Vaccination-Skeptics Netowrk.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-...oup-changes-its-name-after-complaints/5312910

Hah.
Win for us normal people.

Now on to homepathy.....
"qui numquam fuerunt totalis

Total Bullshit.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Lol, 30 pages from a little News Corp OOOOUUUUUTTTRRRAAAAGGGGEEE!!

 

[greennick]

More people living does not equal improved quality of living. We are highly overpopulated.

That's a dumb argument as birth rates decrease as death rates decrease. So, we end up with more productive people from lower death rates, rather than a majority underage population as used to be the case, where you would have 6 kids hoping that 2 would live to at least 30.

 

[vealesy]

That's a dumb argument as birth rates decrease as death rates decrease. So, we end up with more productive people from lower death rates, rather than a majority underage population as used to be the case, where you would have 6 kids hoping that 2 would live to at least 30.

What is your point?

That has nothing to do with overpopulation at the present time.

We need to allow voluntary euthanasia and start encouraging suicide for "non-productive" people too, perhaps?

 

[Partridge]

Hah.
Win for us normal people.

Now on to homepathy.....
"qui numquam fuerunt totalis

Total Bullshit.

If only they could take the "Skeptics" out of the title as well. They aren't skeptics; they're denialists. There's a big difference.

As you say, one down, plenty to go. I'd nominate in order chiropractors, homeopathy, acupuncture, and then spreaden the anti-woo net.

 

[vealesy]

Pretty big axe to grind there Partridge. Just put "eastern medicine" or "anti-pharma-industry" on the list, perhaps?

How anyone can claim that the pharmaceutical industry follows the scientific method is beyond my understanding.

Denying and covering up undesirable effects is not scientific, at all.

 

[Partridge]

Pretty big axe to grind there Partridge. Just put "eastern medicine" or "anti-pharma-industry" on the list, perhaps?

How anyone can claim that the pharmaceutical industry follows the scientific method is beyond my understanding.

Denying and covering up undesirable effects is not scientific, at all.

There is one big difference.

The pharmaceutical industry - and it absolutely is not perfect - is at least regulated. What you see on the label is what you are getting. The "alternative" medicine industry is completely unregulated. No controls and no testing. Makes sense as none of it works.

You know what else isn't scientific? Buying something based on anecdotes. Buying something that isn't tested. Getting a treatment that can't be tested. Getting a treatment that can't control for placebos. That isn't scientific.

To answer your question yes, I would put "eastern" medicine on the list without hesitation. You know what the "eastern" means? New-age bullshit that doesn't work, yet people want to think is true.

 

[vealesy]

New age?

Has been around a lot longer than foil sealed pills.

 

[Partridge]

New age?

Has been around a lot longer than foil sealed pills.

New age, alternative, or my preferences - bullshit and woo-woo.

Have you ever wondered why medicine you get prescribed by doctors, and bought from nasty evil pharmaceutical companies is not called "alternative"? Because it works.