Anyone think we can actually win next week?

[Ant85]

I'd like to contest this a little. And a few other statements.

You certainly have more room for potential improvement than saints, because saints played your key players out of the game. But there inlies the hard truth. It's not that the pies "had a shocker" or played badly, they were shut down by their opponent. They were being tackled metaphorically most the game and sometimes they could break free.

The result hinges not on the pies ability to play like we know they did against geelong and other impressive games, but rather on the saints ability to dominate your players for a high enough percentage of the game again.

Here is a simple summary of the day

Saints did their job
Pies tried to do their job

This is why IMO the saints start favourites and why I was expecting a close GF yesterday.

I didn't say we had a shocker, I said we were below our best, which I did attribute to St.Kilda effectively shutting us down (and squeezing our midfield).

And that sets the tone for next week. Collingwood's going to train and develop ways to break St.Kilda's shut down strategy. We successfully did it against them earlier in the year, and we know we can do it again.

St.Kilda will implement that strategy again, because they know if it opens up just slightly, we will pounce.

They're not a high scoring team, and we are. Their job is to shut the game down, and as you saw, they put everything in it on Saturday and got a draw. I still think we have more upside.

 

[doppleganger]

Absolutely we can win.

We have played the aints 3 times in 2010.

1st game, a struggle...we peppered the goals missed our chances and the saints made us pay.

2nd game, we simply showed that we are a better team and put them to the sword.

3rd game, saints managed to have the game played on their terms...shut our main players down, beat us in the tackle count and contested ball, the saints controlled the game.........yet we were in front most of the day?

4th game.....surely we will learn from what they are trying to do, they showed all their tricks on Satday and couldn't beat us. Im more than confident in backing the likes of Swan, Pendles, Didak, Beams, Ball and Wellingham to take it up a level and win the midfield battle....kick more than 10 goals and we will win.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Technically we should be better off.

Young players will now know the level expected. But I doubt their mental toughness. And I don't trust Malthouse not to cost us at the selection table AGAIN!

If Davis and or Lockyer are in, then kiss the game goodbye.

 

[Zahki]

If Davis and or Lockyer are in, then kiss the game goodbye.

Lockyer for Davis wouldn't be such a bad change. Lockyer would put far more effort into the game, he kicks straight and he deserves a shot. The only query would be over his ability to run the game out after so long out, but if he's allowed to sit inside the forward 50 all day scratching his arse like Davis does then it shouldn't be too big an issue.

 

[Saint4Ever]

We also know that feeling of not winning a GF now, so that sort of level's out the hurt factor also.

Certainly doesn't level out the hurt factor. The hurt from a lost GF hurts 100 times more than a drawn one as you will find out on Saturday.

 

[Yidaki]

I won't back down all week, we have as much chance, if not more (Gardiner out) of winning this week as we did last week, so I'll back our boys to deliver once again.

Personally, I thought the Saints got better when Gardiner was out.

 

[Invigoration]

Certainly doesn't level out the hurt factor. The hurt from a lost GF hurts 100 times more than a drawn one as you will find out on Saturday.

Why do we need this week to compare the hurt of a lost GF to a drawn one? Pretty sure we've experienced losing grand finals before you numpty.
And hurt factor clearly counts for sfa anyway, see 2003 or 2010 for proof.

We'll smash St.Kilda this week, we know what it takes and we won't take the foot off the pedal at half time this time. Wtf is with the pessimism from the OP? Ridiculous thread.

 

[danielnajdek]

I'm with you Matty. We have a massive chance of winning next week. Maxy, the other guys in the leadership group and Mick will get the young boys up and ready for next Saturday.

 

[didaka]

Certainly doesn't level out the hurt factor. The hurt from a lost GF hurts 100 times more than a drawn one as you will find out on Saturday.

I honestly don't think the hurt factor has any real impact anyway to be honest. It obviously didn't help St. Kilda over the line yesterday, even when they hit the front.

I think GF experience is definitely a factor though, knowing what to expect and what is required.

 

[danielnajdek]

Certainly doesn't level out the hurt factor. The hurt from a lost GF hurts 100 times more than a drawn one as you will find out on Saturday.

Is this what all you Saints supporters said last week if it got close towards the end of the game? Didn't seem to get you over the line. We looked finished yet got that crucial goal. Surely if you were hurt that much from last year you would've stopped us from getting that goal. Major cop out.

 

[KissStephanie]

Certainly doesn't level out the hurt factor. The hurt from a lost GF hurts 100 times more than a drawn one as you will find out on Saturday.

Find out by watching St.Kilda lose again? How does that work exactly? There are three positive things that occurred from the draw for Collingwood.

• Grand Final experience gained for those that had not played in one.
• The feeling of a draw should make the players realise that nothing less than a win will do without having to experience a loss first.
• St.Kilda were determined to win yesterday following last years loss, but were still unable to do so even though the match was played on their terms, and more Collingwood players were down on form on the day.

 

[darkstranger]

There was nothing in that. He was trying to spoil the ball back into play.

Then Gilbert will need to go for a stray reckless elbow which split Browns eye?

An eye for an eye you would say????

Jolly open hand looking to swat the ball - that's it - no way would that be looked at.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Collingwood have heaps of room for improvement - won't be so daunting the second time - I think Saints performed as well as they could.

Saints were a mess in the first half; credit to Collingwood, they blew us out of the water at the start and we took a long time to get organised and settled. But we also had our only ruckman out of the game for the last 70 minutes of footy and players such as Gram, Dal Santo, Schneider, Riewoldt, Montagna and Peake were a shadow of their best. There's plenty of scope for improvement from the saints.

 

[lozza63]

We experienced such a let down in the second half going in with that 24 pt. lead. Subconsciously the players must have thought they had 'em, that and the fact that the Saints were challenged at half time by RL to which they responded accordingly. Our entire midfield group was dominated in that 3rd quarter. The Saints went into that 3 quarter time huddle with all the momentum going into the last and they were unable to win. Not only that but we had the pressure building up through a couple of key missed opportunities in the second half - ie Blair and Daisy's misses.

I think that speaks volumes for this young side's capacity to hold out, read backline, even with many stars dulled and ineffective after 1/2 time. To have Goddard do what he did in the second half, frankly cant recall any player in a Grand final exerting as much influence - and the Saints still could not win!!!!

Maxy said that had we faced extra time we were gone - but we didnt face that and the prize is there for us to think right we dodged a bullet, the young guys will learn plenty, and our stars can look to level the ledger with Hayes, Goddard and Fisher as regards influence on the game.

I am backing our boys for the replay - I still believe we have the best team and that the Saints rely on the brilliance of individuals to win, while their lesser lights perform shut down roles.

 

[KissStephanie]

Saints were a mess in the first half; credit to Collingwood, they blew us out of the water at the start and we took a long time to get organised and settled. But we also had our only ruckman out of the game for the last 70 minutes of footy and players such as Gram, Dal Santo, Schneider, Riewoldt, Montagna and Peake were a shadow of their best. There's plenty of scope for improvement from the saints.

This is not an accurate assessment at all, so why are you posting this rubbish on this board? You should keep this stuff to the St.Kilda board I think.

Montagna cannot play any better than he did. Dal Santo is carrying an injury that will not improve before next week. Gram may not even play next week because of his groin. Peake is not worth mentioning because he wouldn't get a game at many teams. Schneider was terrific. St.Kilda were helped by Gardiner being off the ground because they were unpredictable and it didn't effect rotations, and it allowed them to play an extra medium sized player more. Ben McEvoy's inclusion won't make much difference to anything.

Collingwood definitely learnt more about St.Kilda than the other way around. St.Kilda were determined to win yesterday following last years loss, but were still unable to win, even though the match was played on their terms, and more Collingwood players were down on form on the day. Collingwood now has Grand Final experience which most players did not have beforehand, and St.Kilda can no longer use last years loss for motivation in the same way as they did.

 

[nikyDALSleftFOOT]

have you noticed that swan kicks the ball sky high every time he gets the ball?
what about harry o'brien heading to the toilet in the last quarter when he heard riewoldt was behind him?
i heard leon and beams dont have to change their holiday plans after all?
Have you also heard travis 'what day is it' cloke talk in an interview? does he have the brain of a peanut?

 

[THATSGOLD]

our 4th and 5th string mids need to lift to take the heat off.. swan pendles and didak.. that being ball and wellingham who both played carrying there injuries.

Im not sure if we have replacement for them. Out of wellers beams or ball (one of those needs to play a blinder in the middle!)

 

[mattys123]

have you noticed that swan kicks the ball sky high every time he gets the ball?
what about harry o'brien heading to the toilet in the last quarter when he heard riewoldt was behind him?
i heard leon and beams dont have to change their holiday plans after all?
Have you also heard travis 'what day is it' cloke talk in an interview? does he have the brain of a peanut?

Winty nomination?

 

[rose jam]

have you noticed that swan kicks the ball sky high every time he gets the ball?
what about harry o'brien heading to the toilet in the last quarter when he heard riewoldt was behind him?
i heard leon and beams dont have to change their holiday plans after all?
Have you also heard travis 'what day is it' cloke talk in an interview? does he have the brain of a peanut?

classy stuff

 

[THATSGOLD]

Our run dried up in the second half to.. the one two three triangle work we normally produced stopped.. not sure if that was because of st kildas game plan or the fact for were spent.

For all our dominance it wasn't reflected on the scorecard.. 24 points was never enough.. it should of been 7 goals! They would of never of gotten back into it then ala the week before vs the cats.. I think we are good enough to win next week but alot depends the fitness of the lads.

After feeling flat for 24 hours im starting to feel we can come back and win this game next week! goo pies!

 

[grizzlym]

Winty nomination?

He's gone now.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

This is not an accurate assessment at all, so why are you posting this rubbish on this board? You should keep this stuff to the St.Kilda board I think.

Montagna cannot play any better than he did. Dal Santo is carrying an injury that will not improve before next week. Gram may not even play next week because of his groin. Peake is not worth mentioning because he wouldn't get a game at many teams. Schneider was terrific. St.Kilda were helped by Gardiner being off the ground because they were unpredictable and it didn't effect rotations, and it allowed them to play an extra medium sized player more. Ben McEvoy's inclusion won't make much difference to anything.

Montagna got stats but had little influence. He wasn't anywhere near as effective as he usually is and will be looking to improve. Dal Santo may improve, he may not; all I know is that he was nowhere near his best, the same goes for Gram. Peake has been excellent for us in the second half of the year and had his worst game for a long time. Schneider went missing for large chunks of the game and only managed one goal. We sure as hell didn't benefit from having one less rotation.

Collingwood definitely learnt more about St.Kilda than the other way around. St.Kilda were determined to win yesterday following last years loss, but were still unable to win, even though the match was played on their terms, and more Collingwood players were down on form on the day. Collingwood now has Grand Final experience which most players did not have beforehand, and St.Kilda can no longer use last years loss for motivation in the same way as they did.

What did you learn about St Kilda? As I see it, Collingwood were on top and played their game for the first half, then St Kilda did in the second. You're concinving yourself that Collingwood has advantages that don't exist. The replay will be the same as the first game - 50/50. If Collingwood's midfield get on top and get quick, accurate supply to the forwards then you will win. If St Kilda can shut down your key runners again then the Saints will win.

 

[PieBeast]

^^^ Pretty fair analysis but keep in mind we kicked 3.6 to 1 goal in the second quarter.

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

We experienced such a let down in the second half going in with that 24 pt. lead. Subconsciously the players must have thought they had 'em, that and the fact that the Saints were challenged at half time by RL to which they responded accordingly.

Sorry Loz, this is tripe. All credit goes to the Saints for coming back. Nothing to do with Collingwood's subconscious. It basically showed that flag favoritism counts for stuff all and that 4 or 5 goals ahead with an hour to play in today's footy is very gettable in quick time. A neutral fan (hates Collingwood though) was in awe of StKilda's comeback but also praised the 'balls' of the Collingwood players throughout the whole game, special mention made of the goals against the run of play.
This wasn't the flag that got away, we never had it, regardless of what the media knobs say about it.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

^^^ Pretty fair analysis but keep in mind we kicked 3.6 to 1 goal in the second quarter.

While there were some crucial shots missed, I think a reasonable chunk of those points would have been rushed. True, St Kilda was very lucky that the Pies didn't really make the most of their early dominance, but in the end 7 of your points were rushed behinds, ending with 9.7 from Collingwood kicks. Some gettable shots were missed and some impossible goals were scored from Thomas and Didak. By the same token, St Kilda squandered opportunities in the last quarter and some bad turnovers lead to easy Collingwood goals. Both teams had opportunities to put the game away but the other just kept fighting back.