Can we match it with the best?

[pies 4 ever]

I think that there is more upside to us than to Geelong, Hawks, Dockers, etc.. They are playing close to their best sides, the players they have out will improve them only slightly as they have more experienced players than us. I firmly believe that Witts, Grundy, Frost, Keefe, Langdon, Fasolo, Elliott, White all will greatly improve as the season progresses. Reid, Williams, Seedsman, Brown are all best 22 at the moment and are on the way back as well as Karnezis, Scharenberg, Freeman, Broomhead, Kennedy, Dwyer and others all putting there hands up for spots. The pressure will be on most players to improve or be replaced, and that's will be the making of us in 2014.
Its not whether we can beat them now, its in Sept that will count, remember 2010.

 

[BringbackHarry]

This 30 can given a clean run with injury

Williams Brown Toovey
Maxwell Keeffe Fasolo

Grundy Pendlebury Macaffer
Young Sidebottom Lumumba

Beams Reid Swan
White Cloke Elliott

Blair Ball Thomas Sinclair

Emer
Adams Frost Langdon Seedsman
Dwyer Witts Kennedy Goldsack

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Can we match it with the best? Well... sometimes history has lessons for us. Look at the following example:-



We had a whole lot of players who - with the benefit of hindsight - you would have called B or C graders: Chris Egan, Shane O'Bree, a very young Pendlebury, Cloke, Harry and Thomas, Guy Richards. In terms of match-ups with the big hawks of the day, we looked on paper to be very beatable.

We smacked them. Then we smacked them again later in the year.

This 'bogey' that the Hawks have over us is only in the heads of supporters, not the players. We nudged them out of the 2011 prelim. We kicked them by 50+ points in 2011 H&A. So they're quite beatable, thanks very much.

We were really only a kick away from beating Geelong with what I would call a very low-energy team this year, and now we seem to be gelling a bit better.

Do I think we'll win in Round 14? I have no idea actually - we could be killing it by then and Hawks could be flat. So in the spirit of being a supporter and member I'm going to believe we can win and back our boys to get up.

 

[Seedsfan]

This 30 can given a clean run with injury

Williams Brown Toovey
Maxwell Keeffe Fasolo

Grundy Pendlebury Macaffer
Young Sidebottom Lumumba

Beams Reid Swan
White Cloke Elliott

Blair Ball Thomas Sinclair

Emer
Adams Frost Langdon Seedsman
Dwyer Witts Kennedy Goldsack

Frost better then Keeffe

 

[BringbackHarry]

Frost better then Keeffe

Yep, bugger can't edit it now

 

[cleomenes]

Williams will be back. This is the first step on the road. In 2 weeks, unless disaster comes, our injury list will look quite good. Then, with picking the side a real challenge, we can match it with the best. This year's sterling efforts have come from a much weakened side. Many opposition goals have come from turnovers that confidence will mostly eliminate. Remember all of the naysayers that were predicting a 0-5 start!
In the speculation threads during the preseason, I said that our spine was good, but our flankers had to show something. They are doing so, and there looks to be a lot of improvement on offer. Best of all, a real desperation to compete is in eveidence.

 

[Old Spice]

I think we might find the that Hawks become increasingly the emperor with no clothes as this season progresses.

Essendon's game I think showed the chinks in the armour and the Cats I don't see as that far above the pack, certainly not above us. I think teams will increasingly send shut-down players to Hawthorn's outside players in Smith, Suckling and Rioli.

 

[theaflife]

Just remember hawks dont have Buddy now. That could change a bit of there unbeatability towards us.

 

[piedpiper32]

Just remember hawks dont have Buddy now. That could change a bit of there unbeatability towards us.

Buddy? You mean the guy who suffered severe Frostbite a few weeks ago?

 

[Shaneprice97]

Just remember hawks dont have Buddy now. That could change a bit of there unbeatability towards us.

It will help a lot more then people think, Brown has done great jobs on Roughead in the past and Frost on Gunston should be a good match up. Keeffe potentially comes in for Hale and Big Boy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[Robroy22]

Can we match it with the best? Well... sometimes history has lessons for us. Look at the following example:-



We had a whole lot of players who - with the benefit of hindsight - you would have called B or C graders: Chris Egan, Shane O'Bree, a very young Pendlebury, Cloke, Harry and Thomas, Guy Richards. In terms of match-ups with the big hawks of the day, we looked on paper to be very beatable.

We smacked them. Then we smacked them again later in the year.

This 'bogey' that the Hawks have over us is only in the heads of supporters, not the players. We nudged them out of the 2011 prelim. We kicked them by 50+ points in 2011 H&A. So they're quite beatable, thanks very much.

We were really only a kick away from beating Geelong with what I would call a very low-energy team this year, and now we seem to be gelling a bit better.

Do I think we'll win in Round 14? I have no idea actually - we could be killing it by then and Hawks could be flat. So in the spirit of being a supporter and member I'm going to believe we can win and back our boys to get up.

Great post sir.

 

[Big Bryza]

I think Fasolo has pinched Sinclairs position. He will find it hard to get back in to the team unless we have injuries.
Poor guy he was really coming good.

He was coming good and then we found a better version of him. Let's hope he gets back and carves up the VFL.

In answer to the OP, yes.

Why? Simply because we are defending much much better all over the ground this season. As they say, defence wins premierships.

 

[jonbe54]

I'm hardly known as being a clueless homer when it comes to this club, but the amount of people in this thread saying that "we can't and we won't best Hawthorn" are pretty disgraceful, as far as I'm concerned.

I get that we have a bad record against them, but the idea that we can't beat them embarrassingly negative.

Harden up fellas - Once bitten, twice shy is the attitude of losers.

Having low expectations is not a protection against the pain of losing - It's going to hurt either way, so why not support the club.

We can beat Hawthorn. We might not, but to suggest that we can't is so silly I'm actually stunned so many have said it.

Go Vinnie Go!

NOTHING eases the pain of losing, half a century of watching us fall over in finals hasn't grown a protective shell around my heart.

There are barrackers - who support the mighty Pies come rain, hail or shine, win, lose or draw.

There are the supporters - who flock to the club in good times and make a brave show amongst the die hards

There are the slinkers - these people are an embarrasment to the club, half the time apologizing for supporting our great club

Put me up in the top bracket with the barrackers, my heart is black and white and it pumps blood the same colour, when we win I am in my glory and when we lose I am desolate. I wear my heart on my black and white sleeve and COULDN'T GIVE A F**K LESS WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS.

To those supporters who swell our ranks welcome and enjoy belonging to the biggest club in Australia.

To those slinkers and apologists who drag our name through the mud . . . who cares? You aren't worth considering anyway.

 

[Sunbot]

Haven't read the whole thread. On our day, with this list, bar injuries and suspensions, we can be the best.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Want to see Frost, Fasolo and Williams with Keefe/Brown, Toovey, Lumumba and Maxwell down back before I say we can beat Hawthorn. The problem is their forward line. It's just incredibly dangerous against us. We have new guys back there now, but I'd be worried with Fasolo against anyone in their forward line. Would he get Rioli, Breust, Puopolo??
We're playing pretty well at the moment, but I think we may just be a grade lower than the very best this year. That could possibly change if Williams, Reid, Seedsman all come back and become the players we all dream them to be.
Geelong, as others have said, we can beat. Port will be a good test this year, but I dont exacty fear them.
To be honest, we are not good enough to have really off days and win matches at the moment, like we were in 2011. So we need to keep playing well, building the confidence and see where it takes us. I'd be rapt to be feeling really positive about the team come October this year, excited about what we can do in 2015 and beyond, anything else is a bonus.

 

[jonbe54]

Want to see Frost, Fasolo and Williams with Keefe/Brown, Toovey, Lumumba and Maxwell down back before I say we can beat Hawthorn. The problem is their forward line. It's just incredibly dangerous against us. We have new guys back there now, but I'd be worried with Fasolo against anyone in their forward line. Would he get Rioli, Breust, Puopolo??
We're playing pretty well at the moment, but I think we may just be a grade lower than the very best this year. That could possibly change if Williams, Reid, Seedsman all come back and become the players we all dream them to be.
Geelong, as others have said, we can beat. Port will be a good test this year, but I dont exacty fear them.
To be honest, we are not good enough to have really off days and win matches at the moment, like we were in 2011. So we need to keep playing well, building the confidence and see where it takes us. I'd be rapt to be feeling really positive about the team come October this year, excited about what we can do in 2015 and beyond, anything else is a bonus.

The player with the potential to change everything on our backline is almost ready to get into now, shazza is looking a bloody powerful unit for a young man. The most likely outcome is he will be pushing for a spot in the back part of the season and expecting everything to gel in a short run to the finals is probably asking a little too much but stranger things have happened.

And if it does watch out, especially if the stick fires as well.

 

[Temploar]

Bucks has made the move. I am beginning to see a game plan, our kick to handball ratio has changed dramatically, and so has the way we match up on opposition teams.
We look less sloppy and more willing to work as a cohesive unit now.

Take the NAB Challenge games for example.

Coll vs Geel (Lose by 2 Points)

Kicks 194 / Handballs 211
We took it up to them but lacked the skills needed to play a high precision slingshot game of football.
They put pressure on us up forward causing our players to miss handballs and turn it over.

Coll vs Rich (Lose by 48 Points)

Kicks 163 / Handballs 165
We looked very out of touch and really fatigued in the last.

Now lets look at our wins in the regular season.

Coll vs Syd (Won by 20 Points)

Kicks 207 / Handballs 164
We saved a lot more energy and didn't play stupidly by not handballing to opposition players which we seemed to do a lot. This is because we were kicking a lot more, giving us more time and space to think around the ball. Bucks deployed the spare man back in defence which made us look a lot more composed back there, in turn players took their time with their possessions and we looked a lot cleaner. We spent less time fixing our mistakes and that helped us run over them in the last qtr.

Coll vs Rich (Won by 38 Points)

Kicks 198 / Handballs 138
See above, we looked a class above the Tigers because we simply were much cleaner with the footy.

Coll vs NMFC (Won by 35 Points)

Kicks 248 / Handballs 163
This is where I've finally begun to see this new plan under Buckley, it has dramatically changed since the NAB challenge and I think this will be the game where we say 'this is where our team finally gelled'

Buckley has stopped wasting an extra man at the stoppages, he backs in our mids to get the job done and they do that a lot of the time, our on ballers pressure the opposition so much that they think there are more Collingwood players then there actually are. THIS is the way to win footy, THIS is the way to beat the Hawks in 2014 and the Cats showed it last night, If the Hawks think they can't kick it to anyone, they wont!!!! This is where they fumble the handball like we were doing and cause a turnover, We must make the most of our opportunities from now on, hurt them on the rebound at EVERY opportunity. They are only Human, they will fumble under pressure, and Bucks needs to drill his side to be composed, COMPOSURE is the key in AFL footy, if you have a cool head then you're going to know what the right decision is.

So to put this in perspective the changes since last year have been (So far).

- Removing the spare man from the stoppages
- Deploying the spare man back in defence which allows our defenders to put more pressure on Opposition forwards and cause turnovers
- Better rebounding through the center corridor. We back our mids in and 80% of the time they clear it forward.
- Pressure is back, The players know where each team mate is now, the plan has started to come to light, and they are able to execute it far better than they used to be able to, we still need to work on this, but it's what will win us another flag.

Things we still need to work on

+ More options inside the forward 50 (This might fix itself once Reid is back but we still need some mids to push up there occasionally, unpredictability is good)
+ Keep applying the pressure (As I spoke of before, when we have cool heads we don't fumble as much!!!)
+ Don't waste our opportunities in front of goal

So yes we can beat the Hawks this year and I think the team finally knows their place as a cohesive unit and are ready to make this plan stick.

 

[theaflife]

We can match it with the best yes. We could have beaten Geelong and only lost by a couple of goals who at the moment are the benchmark of the competition.

Hawks are an outstanding team but hopefully without buddy we will match up better on them and we can beat them

 

[Seedsfan]

Want to see Frost, Fasolo and Williams with Keefe/Brown, Toovey, Lumumba and Maxwell down back before I say we can beat Hawthorn. The problem is their forward line. It's just incredibly dangerous against us. We have new guys back there now, but I'd be worried with Fasolo against anyone in their forward line. Would he get Rioli, Breust, Puopolo??
We're playing pretty well at the moment, but I think we may just be a grade lower than the very best this year. That could possibly change if Williams, Reid, Seedsman all come back and become the players we all dream them to be.
Geelong, as others have said, we can beat. Port will be a good test this year, but I dont exacty fear them.
To be honest, we are not good enough to have really off days and win matches at the moment, like we were in 2011. So we need to keep playing well, building the confidence and see where it takes us. I'd be rapt to be feeling really positive about the team come October this year, excited about what we can do in 2015 and beyond, anything else is a bonus.

Hawthorns forward line is not that good the rely on Roughead far to much. It is not to kick their goals but he creates a contest that gives guys like Bruest and Rioli the opportunity to kick goals. Also Fasolo normally is the loose man behind the ball.

 

[Temploar]

Hawthorns forward line is not that good the rely on Roughead far to much. It is not to kick their goals but he creates a contest that gives guys like Bruest and Rioli the opportunity to kick goals. Also Fasolo normally is the loose man behind the ball.

I wouldn't say they rely on Roughie too much. Breust and Gunston are #4 and #5 for total number of goals this year with Roughie being #8

They are ALL Very dangerous, and that includes Roughead, Breust, Gunston, Rioli, Hill and Puopolo.

You simply can't go head to head with the Hawks as they will out score you every time, the only option is Defence and I'd like to see how we go with that this year.

 

[Seedsfan]

I wouldn't say they rely on Roughie too much. Breust and Gunston are #4 and #5 for total number of goals this year with Roughie being #8

They are ALL Very dangerous, and that includes Roughead, Breust, Gunston, Rioli, Hill and Puopolo.

You simply can't go head to head with the Hawks as they will out score you every time, the only option is Defence and I'd like to see how we go with that this year.

But look how ineffective they were when Roughead had no impact, Gunston scores on quick breaks that Hawthorn normally get a few each day but Breust and Rioli need Roughead to create a contest for them to be effective

 

[Robroy22]

But look how ineffective they were when Roughead had no impact, Gunston scores on quick breaks that Hawthorn normally get a few each day but Breust and Rioli need Roughead to create a contest for them to be effective

Nah sorry mate but Cyril doesn't need ANYONE else to be effective. He is the singularly most talented footballer playing atm and if his legs would stand up to it, he'd be an even better midfielder.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

Hawthorns forward line is not that good the rely on Roughead far to much. It is not to kick their goals but he creates a contest that gives guys like Bruest and Rioli the opportunity to kick goals. Also Fasolo normally is the loose man behind the ball.

Whose is then? Best in the comp by a mile. Roughy and Hale, Bruest, Rioli, Gunston, Burgoyne can be a goalkicker, Hodge and Lewis can be, Hill and Smith can be and Puopolo for pressure.

 

[Robroy22]

Whose is then? Best in the comp by a mile. Roughy and Hale, Bruest, Rioli, Gunston, Burgoyne can be a goalkicker, Hodge and Lewis can be, Hill and Smith can be and Puopolo for pressure.

Yep....there's a lot of the usual suspects on that list, that's why they're so hard to stop. You have to beat ALL of them.

 

[Yoda_]

Any side that contains a power forward like Cloke, an inside midfield wizard like Pendlebury and the running and all round games of guys like Swan and Beams should never EVER be under estimated