Analysis Crows 23 or under in ‘23 - the young brigade

[John Who]

Just going through our list of young’uns and it seems they’re starting to build a genuine team chemistry and a rising level of confidence in the recent couple of years. I’ve arbitrarily chosen 23 as the cut off age as of current, because these are the likely chosen ones in our rebuilding phase.

Should they remain with us for their entire careers, these are the ones we’re hoping to see through the next phase of serious Cup contending.

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Berry
• Butts
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Max M.
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Of course some in group A might be surpassed by some in group B or C, and some might later be traded in future years. Overall the list looks fairly decent, particularly when we’ve looked to improve significantly in the reserves team in the start of the SANFL season.

Your thoughts on the kids? Who are you most impressed by so far? Who would you like to see more of at AFL level?

 

[dogs105]

Good thread. I've been impressed with Cook, Borlase and Nankervis in the SANFL this year.

 

[Cap]

As much as I'm a fan of Shoey, I'd have him in B

 

[spenze]

Think there are way too many in A, not enough in B

 

[ABAB]

Think there are way too many in A, not enough in B

Way too many? Shoenberg, Hamill and Parnell should listed in B and Worrell in A so only 2.

 

[Scorpus]

Think there are way too many in A, not enough in B

Yep

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Max M.
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Butts
• Berry

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

 

[spenze]

Way too many? Shoenberg, Hamill and Parnell should listed in B and Worrell in A so only 2.

Oh FFS

 

[spenze]

Yep

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Max M.
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Butts
• Berry

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Pretty much, arguments can be made for some of them in the B group but it is a fair reflection of where they are at in their careers

 

[ABAB]

Yep

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Max M.
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Butts
• Berry

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Why are Berry and Butts in B when they had shown at least a season performing at the highest level when Murray only has done this for 4 weeks. If that's the case then Worrell and Pedlar should be in the A. Sholl has worked a lot on his defensive game, offensive was never a question and was always in A but now has cemented himself in A (those who haven't seen this major change in how he now play are blinded by his improvement). Jones and McHenry are depth players so they are in the A. Big question mark on whether Shoenberg want to be a professional footballer so agree there.

 

[1970crow]

Why are Berry and Butts in B when they had shown at least a season performing at the highest level when Murray only has done this for 4 weeks. If that's the case then Worrell and Pedlar should be in the A. Sholl has worked a lot on his defensive game, offensive was never a question and was always in A but now has cemented himself in A (those who haven't seen this major change in how he now play are blinded by his improvement). Jones and McHenry are depth players so they are in the A. Big question mark on whether Shoenberg want to be a professional footballer so agree there.

Butts dropped a week or so ago and quite a few posters are prefer to keep Ned or Murphy in ahead of Berry and have him playing 2s.

 

[ABAB]

Butts dropped a week or so ago and quite a few posters are prefer to keep Ned or Murphy in ahead of Berry and have him playing 2s.

So a few poor games by Berry and he is banished to the "Jury is still out" list despite what he has shown all of last year? Understandable about Butts but he has shown he is a good KPD for a few years and actually developed a lot quicker than most KPD.

 

[Golumless]

Just going through our list of young’uns and it seems they’re starting to build a genuine team chemistry and a rising level of confidence in the recent couple of years. I’ve arbitrarily chosen 23 as the cut off age as of current, because these are the likely chosen ones in our rebuilding phase.

Should they remain with us for their entire careers, these are the ones we’re hoping to see through the next phase of serious Cup contending.

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Berry
• Butts
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Max M.
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Of course some in group A might be surpassed by some in group B or C, and some might later be traded in future years. Overall the list looks fairly decent, particularly when we’ve looked to improve significantly in the reserves team in the start of the SANFL season.

Your thoughts on the kids? Who are you most impressed by so far? Who would you like to see more of at AFL level?

Too many mainstays. Remember, there is a lot of list turnover between now and being a contender.

 

[John Who]

Too many mainstays. Remember, there is a lot of list turnover between now and being a contender.

My perception of group A in the OP is that they’ve shown they’re capable of playing decent AFL games. It’s now just trying to be more consistent with the good stuff that they can bring.

Also, the “likely mainstays” can be used as trade in the future, and not necessarily remain with us throughout their career. The more showing AFL quality attributes, the better, I guess.

 

[John Who]

For the first time since 2017, I feel our list of youngsters has finally caught up with Port’s list of youngsters. Or at least very close to the calibre.

I bet secretly we were envious of their main crop of Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Georgiades, JHF. Now we have potential top-tiers in Fog, Rankine, Rachele, Soligo, Thilthorpe. Pretty comparable in my opinion, even looking at the overall depth in each camp.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

For the first time since 2017, I feel our list of youngsters has finally caught up with Port’s list of youngsters. Or at least very close to the calibre.

I bet secretly we were envious of their main crop of Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Georgiades, JHF. Now we have potential top-tiers in Fog, Rankine, Rachele, Soligo, Thilthorpe. Pretty comparable in my opinion, even looking at the overall depth in each camp.

It's looking more like that we have more decent youngsters than Port.

They have some great young talent but think we have a deeper list.

Not unexpected given we have been rebuilding.

 

[John Who]

It's looking more like that we have more decent youngsters than Port.

They have some great young talent but think we have a deeper list.

Not unexpected given we have been rebuilding.

The rebuilding allows us to try the youngsters more and giving them more opportunities to thrive in AFL-standard games. Something we haven’t had the benefit of for many years. So I think you’re maybe right that our list might be deeper.

Though Port has some quality stock around the mark in Jones, Bergman, Drew, Sinn, Mead, Burgoyne from what I can recall. The next few Showdowns should give us a better indicator of the young talent comparison.

 

[LoBu]

Just going through our list of young’uns and it seems they’re starting to build a genuine team chemistry and a rising level of confidence in the recent couple of years. I’ve arbitrarily chosen 23 as the cut off age as of current, because these are the likely chosen ones in our rebuilding phase.

Should they remain with us for their entire careers, these are the ones we’re hoping to see through the next phase of serious Cup contending.

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Berry
• Butts
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Max M.
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Of course some in group A might be surpassed by some in group B or C, and some might later be traded in future years. Overall the list looks fairly decent, particularly when we’ve looked to improve significantly in the reserves team in the start of the SANFL season.

Your thoughts on the kids? Who are you most impressed by so far? Who would you like to see more of at AFL level?

what's your best 23 under 23 look like?

 

[Golumless]

My perception of group A in the OP is that they’ve shown they’re capable of playing decent AFL games. It’s now just trying to be more consistent with the good stuff that they can bring.

Also, the “likely mainstays” can be used as trade in the future, and not necessarily remain with us throughout their career. The more showing AFL quality attributes, the better, I guess.

I think you have your net a bit too wide if a player like Rachele and McHenry are in the same classification. Seeing one is showing they're capable of having a career with a similar impact to some of the great midfielders of the comp, and the other seems to be approaching the end of their AFL career.

I feel like a better way is (and including everyone):

Key pieces (i.e. our best talents and likely who our contention window is to be built around):

Rankine, Rachele, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Soligo, Murray, Dawson.

Quality (i.e. players who are in a good position to have a locked in role in our contention window):

Michaelanny, Pedlar, Berry.

Comfortable (current locked in best 22, but haven't pushed upwards):

Hinge, Butts, Keays, Doedee, ROB, McAdam.

Boom/bust (i.e. players who have a game to get into the first two groups, but have yet to make any genuine inroads. The most likely group to be traded/DFA's):

Cook, Nankervis, Taylor, Gollant, Worrell, Parnell.

Middling (career isn't in trouble, but are trending downwards and need a good run of form to keep the wolves at bay):

Murphy, McHenry, Jones, Sholl, Schoenberg, Milera, Himmelberg, Brown.

Uh-oh (They're in the gun to be delisted when they're OOC)

Hamill, McPherson, Crouch, Hately, Borlase, Newchurch, Strachen.

Too early (for opinions)

Bond, Dowling

Too old (important for now, but likely to be gone before we hit our window):

Sloane, Tex, Smith, Laird

 

[UcantCme]

Just going through our list of young’uns and it seems they’re starting to build a genuine team chemistry and a rising level of confidence in the recent couple of years. I’ve arbitrarily chosen 23 as the cut off age as of current, because these are the likely chosen ones in our rebuilding phase.

Should they remain with us for their entire careers, these are the ones we’re hoping to see through the next phase of serious Cup contending.

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Berry
• Butts
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Max M.
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Of course some in group A might be surpassed by some in group B or C, and some might later be traded in future years. Overall the list looks fairly decent, particularly when we’ve looked to improve significantly in the reserves team in the start of the SANFL season.

Your thoughts on the kids? Who are you most impressed by so far? Who would you like to see more of at AFL level?

I think the jury is still out on 2-3 players listed in Cat A, including Harry


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[Soggy2112]

Just going through our list of young’uns and it seems they’re starting to build a genuine team chemistry and a rising level of confidence in the recent couple of years. I’ve arbitrarily chosen 23 as the cut off age as of current, because these are the likely chosen ones in our rebuilding phase.

Should they remain with us for their entire careers, these are the ones we’re hoping to see through the next phase of serious Cup contending.

Likely mainstays (A)

• Fog
• Thilthorpe
• Rankine
• Rachele
• Soligo
• Berry
• Butts
• Pedlar
• Schoenberg
• Jones
• McHenry
• Max M.
• Hamill
• Parnell
• Sholl
• Murray

Jury’s still out (B)

• Gollant
• Worrell
• Hately
• Cook

The Untried (C)

• Bond
• Dowling
• Borlase
• Nankervis
• Taylor
• Keane

Of course some in group A might be surpassed by some in group B or C, and some might later be traded in future years. Overall the list looks fairly decent, particularly when we’ve looked to improve significantly in the reserves team in the start of the SANFL season.

Your thoughts on the kids? Who are you most impressed by so far? Who would you like to see more of at AFL level?

Schoenberg, Jones, Parnell and Sholl would go in the jury’s still out category I feel. All have big pros going for them, but all have weaknesses that I’m not confident they’ll overcome.

McHenry will be serviceable as the 25th-30th best player on the list, but we shouldn’t have any plans on him being best 23 or a key player in a premiership side.

Hamill I feel unfortunately just won’t get the opportunity to show us his best.

Hard to see Hately getting a contract next season. Borlase the same, I know he’s untried but some players don’t need a run in the ones to know they’re not up to it. Admittedly I haven’t seen that much of our SANFL side, but the games I have watched I haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s up to it.

I also feel 23 is too young for this cut off. I’ve long thought that our goal should be to start contending around 2025/26, with an expectation of making finals next season. The likes of Keays, Dawson, Rankine, McAdam, Doedee and ROB will definitely be a part of that. Even someone like Laird could still be around the place and playing a key role, e.g. Selwood 2022, Hurn and LeCras 2018, Boyd and Morris 2016, Goodes 2012 etc

 

[kick it to me_]

I think you have your net a bit too wide if a player like Rachele and McHenry are in the same classification. Seeing one is showing they're capable of having a career with a similar impact to some of the great midfielders of the comp, and the other seems to be approaching the end of their AFL career.

I feel like a better way is (and including everyone):

Key pieces (i.e. our best talents and likely who our contention window is to be built around):

Rankine, Rachele, Thilthorpe, Fogarty, Soligo, Murray, Dawson, Michaelanny, Pedlar.

Quality (i.e. players who are in a good position to have a locked in role in our contention window):

Worrell, McAdam, Berry.

Comfortable (current locked in best 22, but haven't pushed upwards):

Hinge, Butts, Keays, Doedee, ROB.

Boom/bust (i.e. players who have a game to get into the first two groups, but have yet to make any genuine inroads. The most likely group to be traded/DFA's):

Cook, Nankervis, Taylor, Gollant, Parnell.

Middling (career isn't in trouble, but are trending downwards and need a good run of form to keep the wolves at bay):

Murphy, McHenry, Jones, Sholl, Schoenberg, Milera, Himmelberg, Brown.

Uh-oh (They're in the gun to be delisted when they're OOC)

Hamill, McPherson, Crouch, Hately, Borlase, Newchurch, Strachen.

Too early (for opinions)

Bond, Dowling

Too old (important for now, but likely to be gone before we hit our window):

Sloane, Tex, Smith, Laird

Great post, just edited it with my thoughts.
I rate, Michaelanny, Pedlar and worrell a little higher.

If you look at the key pieces spread its actual really positive, but we beed another key defender and hb to break into that section. I High hopes for nank and Worrell.



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[John Who]

what's your best 23 under 23 look like?

That’s slightly on a tangent to this particular thread.
For now, my best of the current bunch is..

Forwards:
Fog, Rachele, Rankine, Thilthorpe

Mids:
Berry, Soligo, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Jones (although Jones look more suited in the wings)

Defence:
Butts, Murray, Max M, Sholl, Hamill

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

That’s slightly on a tangent to this particular thread.
For now, my best of the current bunch is..

Forwards:
Fog, Rachele, Rankine, Thilthorpe

Mids:
Berry, Soligo, Pedlar, Schoenberg, Jones (although Jones look more suited in the wings)

Defence:
Butts, Murray, Max M, Sholl, Hamill

Rachele playing more as a midfielder who spends time forward & will increase his midfield minutes as he builds his tank. Playing more midfield than Pedlar.

Sholl is a wingman not a defender.

 

[John Who]

Schoenberg, Jones, Parnell and Sholl would go in the jury’s still out category I feel. All have big pros going for them, but all have weaknesses that I’m not confident they’ll overcome.

McHenry will be serviceable as the 25th-30th best player on the list, but we shouldn’t have any plans on him being best 23 or a key player in a premiership side.

Hamill I feel unfortunately just won’t get the opportunity to show us his best.

Hard to see Hately getting a contract next season. Borlase the same, I know he’s untried but some players don’t need a run in the ones to know they’re not up to it. Admittedly I haven’t seen that much of our SANFL side, but the games I have watched I haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s up to it.

I also feel 23 is too young for this cut off. I’ve long thought that our goal should be to start contending around 2025/26, with an expectation of making finals next season. The likes of Keays, Dawson, Rankine, McAdam, Doedee and ROB will definitely be a part of that. Even someone like Laird could still be around the place and playing a key role, e.g. Selwood 2022, Hurn and LeCras 2018, Boyd and Morris 2016, Goodes 2012 etc

This thread is more meant for talking about our young players as a collectively, rather than going on the individual threads for the player name to make individual posts.

Also amazing how 1 week of solid footy can change quickly perceptions, particularly on Jones. I rate him as a solid regular contributor, and after last round, I’m starting to think he could be a lot more damaging than a plain contributor. He has genuine weapons, but need to unleash his inner beast more regularly.

 

[ABAB]

Rachele playing more as a midfielder who spends time forward & will increase his midfield minutes as he builds his tank. Playing more midfield than Pedlar.

Sholl is a wingman not a defender.

Definitely seeing Pedlar get the same development next year as he build his fitness as Rachele has this year. Both will be very rare genuine goal kicking midfielders.