Do the Liberals have any good policies?

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pazza said:
Is giving $ to anti-domestic violence campaigns enough? Why not get the states and feds to agree on mandatory minimum sentencing for such offences....
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because we should have a separation between the executive and the judiciary.

do you not feel that the separation is important?

but yes we should have tougher penalties on violence and domestic-violence but we should preserve the separation of powers.
 

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Power Raid said:
yes

what did you note?
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That NBNco under Malcolm bought a HFC network that is pretty much useless (I could have told them that before they did it) now I know you're hanging you hat on that one line about Labor's plan but that is immaterial, Labor wouldn't have tried to buy and operate the HFC network, that is completely Malcolm's mess. There have been massive price blowout's under the MTM next to no work done and considering it was being sold (and still is) as the cheaper and sooner option the whole thing is a mess.

Also the difference is that Labor solution was 10x the capability (at worst), ubiquitous, cheaper to operate, easily upgradeable and reliable. None of those apply to the Liberal's MTM.
 
Ice-Wolf said:
That NBNco under Malcolm bought a HFC network that is pretty much useless (I could have told them that before they did it) now I know you're hanging you hat on that one line about Labor's plan but that is immaterial, Labor wouldn't have tried to buy and operate the HFC network, that is completely Malcolm's mess. There have been massive price blowout's under the MTM next to no work done and considering it was being sold (and still is) as the cheaper and sooner option the whole thing is a mess.

Also the difference is that Labor solution was 10x the capability (at worst), ubiquitous, cheaper to operate, easily upgradeable and reliable. None of those apply to the Liberal's MTM.
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how much had the plan blown up if the Labor's plan was continued? perhaps we should have simply accepted Telstra's plan or tendered the job internationally

I think we find ourselves in this mess simply because Labor was too pig headed and "knew" better than industry. The result was a roll out with a flawed plan. We now find ourselves trying to fix a flawed plan on the run and the rest is history.

This will be tens of billions over budget..............exactly what many have suggested from the start. It will never happen as planned............what many suggested from the start. This was a political con by one of the most misleading governments in history.

The financial plan was flawed and possibly intentionally misleading to remain off the books and the technical plan was flawed and has proven to be almost impossible to roll out.

I'm not a Malcolm fanboi but let's get stuck into him for issues he creates rather the mess he has tried to fix.
 
This should always have been a direct property tax for all land owners the NBN passed by.......just like sewage. Regardless of whether you connect or not, you pay.

It would have been fair as the beneficiary of the infrastructure pays and low income earners would not be subsidising rich property owners.
 
Power Raid said:
This should always have been a direct property tax for all land owners the NBN passed by.......just like sewage. Regardless of whether you connect or not, you pay.

It would have been fair as the beneficiary of the infrastructure pays and low income earners would not be subsidising rich property owners.
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It was being paid for by the usage the more someone used the higher share they would be paying off.
 

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Power Raid said:
how much had the plan blown up if the Labor's plan was continued? perhaps we should have simply accepted Telstra's plan or tendered the job internationally

I think we find ourselves in this mess simply because Labor was too pig headed and "knew" better than industry. The result was a roll out with a flawed plan. We now find ourselves trying to fix a flawed plan on the run and the rest is history.

This will be tens of billions over budget..............exactly what many have suggested from the start. It will never happen as planned............what many suggested from the start. This was a political con by one of the most misleading governments in history.

The financial plan was flawed and possibly intentionally misleading to remain off the books and the technical plan was flawed and has proven to be almost impossible to roll out.

I'm not a Malcolm fanboi but let's get stuck into him for issues he creates rather the mess he has tried to fix.
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Malcolm made the mess, the mess is his MTM plan. Would Labor's plan have cost more? Yes. Was it worth the additional cost? Yes.

If we want to talk about intentionally misleading then that is everything Malcolm Turnbull has said on the subject, even his hatchet job reviews couldn't bump up the figure of the Labor plan to the one he was tarring it with before the election, meanwhile his $29 Billion all the figures done rock solid plan has more than doubled and is now nearly the same cost as his own reviews give the Labor plan, the time frames blown out, the tech can't even meet his expectations and he's gone and bought the rotted copper and cable networks.

There is only one conjob here and that is the Liberals MTM and if you want to blame it on Labor then you are just a fanboi.

And for the record, I can rightly get stuck into the Malcolm for this issue as even if I were to concede it was a mess when he got to it all he has done is created a much bigger mess.
 
Ice-Wolf said:
Malcolm made the mess, the mess is his MTM plan. Would Labor's plan have cost more? Yes. Was it worth the additional cost? Yes.

If we want to talk about intentionally misleading then that is everything Malcolm Turnbull has said on the subject, even his hatchet job reviews couldn't bump up the figure of the Labor plan to the one he was tarring it with before the election, meanwhile his $29 Billion all the figures done rock solid plan has more than doubled and is now nearly the same cost as his own reviews give the Labor plan, the time frames blown out, the tech can't even meet his expectations and he's gone and bought the rotted copper and cable networks.

There is only one conjob here and that is the Liberals MTM and if you want to blame it on Labor then you are just a fanboi.

And for the record, I can rightly get stuck into the Malcolm for this issue as even if I were to concede it was a mess when he got to it all he has done is created a much bigger mess.
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Labor's plan was never going to eventuate

it was a giant pork barrel lie....all promise and no possibility of delivery as planned


this is the reason why government should stay out of business ventures already being provided for by industry
 
Ice-Wolf said:
It was being paid for by the usage the more someone used the higher share they would be paying off.
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your confusing usage with infrastructure

like sewage and water you have infrastructure and connection charges. in addition you have usage charges.

keep it simple......keep it fair........users pay for usage and land owners pay for the infrastructure value add
 
Power Raid said:
Labor's plan was never going to eventuate

it was a giant pork barrel lie....all promise and no possibility of delivery as planned


this is the reason why government should stay out of business ventures already being provided for by industry
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It wasn't being provided for by industry!
 
Power Raid said:
your confusing usage with infrastructure

like sewage and water you have infrastructure and connection charges. in addition you have usage charges.

keep it simple......keep it fair........users pay for usage and land owners pay for the infrastructure value add
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No I'm not I'm stating how the network was going to be paid for.
 
Ice-Wolf said:
No I'm not I'm stating how the network was going to be paid for.
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so a renter using the network should pay for the long term benefit of infrastructure for wealthy property owners? madness
 
Ice-Wolf said:
It wasn't being provided for by industry!
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it was going to be provided by industry but Rudd didn't like the "actual" price. So he made s**t up to con the public and keep it off balance sheet. Worse they didn't follow protocol and submit the business plan.......I wonder why?
 
Why no business plan and CBA?.........it was a con

http://press.anu.edu.au/apps/bookworm/view/Agenda+-+Volume+19,+Number+2,+2012/10161/morgan.html

Are there projects of such self-evident value that they ought to be exempt from even the most rudimentary cost–benefit analysis? Seemingly so, according to the former Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner, as long as it’s the National Broadband Network (NBN). In May 2009, a month after Kevin Rudd had announced the $43 billion project, when asked about the absence of a cost–benefit analysis (CBA), Tanner said: ‘We had to make the clear decision that said this is the outcome we are going to achieve come hell or high water because it is of fundamental importance to the future of the Australian economy’ (quoted in Martin 2010).

A year later, Tanner remained unmoved by Opposition calls for a CBA and he dismissed such analysis as subjective because ‘cost–benefit analyses of the orthodox kind are basically captives to the assumptions you feed in’ (Martin 2010).

Stephen Conroy, the Broadband Minister, was similarly dismissive. When pressed in May 2009 about the lack of a CBA, he told opposition spokesman Senator Nick Minchin, ‘As I have repeatedly stated, this is an election commitment and we intend to deliver it.’ (Senate Hansard 2009). The election commitment had actually been a $4.7 billion upgrade of the copper network which also had not been subject to a CBA. Clearly, for Conroy, election promises don’t have to be evaluated, even when they have morphed from a $4.7 billion upgrade using ‘fibre to the node technology’ (FTTN) into a $43 billion ‘fibre to the home’ (FTTH) network.
 
Power Raid said:
how much had the plan blown up if the Labor's plan was continued? perhaps we should have simply accepted Telstra's plan or tendered the job internationally

I think we find ourselves in this mess simply because Labor was too pig headed and "knew" better than industry. The result was a roll out with a flawed plan. We now find ourselves trying to fix a flawed plan on the run and the rest is history.

This will be tens of billions over budget..............exactly what many have suggested from the start. It will never happen as planned............what many suggested from the start. This was a political con by one of the most misleading governments in history.

The financial plan was flawed and possibly intentionally misleading to remain off the books and the technical plan was flawed and has proven to be almost impossible to roll out.

I'm not a Malcolm fanboi but let's get stuck into him for issues he creates rather the mess he has tried to fix.
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Nice spin. Telstra saw him coming

I could just as easy blame the flawed privatisation of telstra by howard and costello. Got a budget in the black but laft the country with a lemon
 
Pessimistic said:
oh by the way. CFMEU, CFMEU, CFMEU :
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Lol, lets hear you try and defend desal then Pess not to mention massive cost overruns for other major projects in Melbourne over the last 30 years.

no mention of the waste in Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria
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wow, comparing union thuggery and corruption to foreign policy. You really are slipping. May as well give us a laugh and call Abbott the worst PM ever

Or have you already?

Ice-Wolf said:
But if we are going to be doing a Telecommunication policy failure history lesson why not go back to the Telstra privatisation ?
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What did the PC recommend at the time?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business...vity-Commission/2005/04/14/1113251738794.html

Ice-Wolf said:
Malcolm made the mess, the mess is his MTM plan. Would Labor's plan have cost more? Yes. Was it worth the additional cost? Yes.
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Yes NBN should have been scrapped other than for rural areas. Horrendous waste of money. PC slammed the total lack of cost benefit which was obvious to anyone bar industry participants arguing in self interest plus those who just wanted free toys.
 
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