Mega Thread 2014 FA, Trades, Rumours and Facts (pre-draft thread).

[doodles98]

The reason I say that is because your original post concurred with the claim that Lynch, White, Armstrong and Young were terrible gets. Lynch was an Unrestricted Free Agent as was Young so that is a free hit. Armstrong came as a delisted free agent. The White trade which involved late pick swaps in a weak draft enabled us to upgrade to pick 6 to get Scharenberg who is highly rated. So in conclusion it was a silly comment to give currency to.

Then you add your own observations, which include that the Clarke trade was a dud, although now you've had a look you see that Elliot was gotten in the deal which included Elliot AND Clarke at pick 25. I'd call Elliot at pick 25 a ******* steal in it's own right, personally. Then you add Hudson and Russell, but again you mix it up - Hudson was taken on the cheap in the rookie draft and Russell as an UFA. To top it off you state it was terrible we traded out Thomas, Wellingham, Dawes, Shaw and Ceglar.

Thomas allowed us to land Scharenberg and no one in the footy world thinks we should have paid Thomas 750k p.a., let alone given up the compensation pick. Wellingham has been in and out of the WC team and you also forget the compensation we got in Grundy. White has been comparable to Dawes this year in effect, can actually ruck and will prove more damaging once Reid returns. Shaw is a loss, but he was behaving the tit and I think we have a Ball replacement in Adams and a Shaw replacement in Langdon at much cheaper price.

So in short, I think your glib assessment is way off the mark and that we have repositioned ourselves with young players who I think will take us forward.

It is very annoying to have you you put words in my mouth not spoken..and claim arguments or assertions I didn't make so beyond this I'll not reply to your BS. For example I have never said it was terrible we traded out Thomas or Welingham (please show me where I did.. go on) and yes delisting Ceglar was a terrible call.. and you disagree with that do you!. But the bottom line is ... You think our trading in the last 3 years has been good.. enough said.... your assertion there tells me everything I need to know about engaging in this kind of discussion with you.... and I see you remember my comment about your ANZAC day post being glib (which it so was)... lol.. good to see it stuck in your craw Ol Spice... been stewing over it for a couple of months hey.... pathetic.. but you chose a loser topic here.. not much of an argument you're making.. our trading's been good in your opinion... You can't seem to understand.. Hudson cost us nothing yes.. but he's taking up a list spot...a list spot we could have, for example, had a guy called Ceglar occupying.... and we traded pick 71 for Russell so maybe check and get your facts right hey? No-one on your list who you trade in is a "Free hit" as you say.. they take up a spot on your list and prevent you from using a draft pick. As I said...list spots are gold!!.. honestly you are one of the very few poster who seems to be unable to understand this.

 

[Old Spice]

It is very annoying to have you you put words in my mouth not spoken..and claim arguments or assertions I didn't make so beyond this I'll not reply to your BS.

Is it?

Here's the post you agreed with a few pages back:

lynch... Was done and dusted at wc
White... Swans with their incredible development program could get little out of him
Armstrong .... Failed at two good clubs
Young .... One-trick pony..... And even that trick is not reliable

A half-arsed rebuild rarely works

So were these players plucked by d hine
or did bucks come over the top?

In response to that post which you evidently liked and quoted (#112), you added the following.

Half arsed it has been.. gone for mediocre at best in these list clogging role players! This has been very poor hasn't it.. and you can definitely add Adams and Clarke into that list of duds along with Jordan Russell and Hudson.

And now you claim:

I have never said it was terrible we traded out Thomas or Welingham (please show me where I did.. go on)

But, again, from that same post as above, you state clearly you do think it was terrible we traded out those players.

Terrible recruiting!.. in the mean time we have traded out Shaw, Thomas, Wellingham, Dawes and delisted Ceglar. F@kin great list management! How to dismantle a premiership team 101!

So don't talk shite.

 

[Old Spice]

It is very annoying to have you you put words in my mouth not spoken..and claim arguments or assertions I didn't make so beyond this I'll not reply to your BS. For example I have never said it was terrible we traded out Thomas or Welingham (please show me where I did.. go on) and yes delisting Ceglar was a terrible call.. and you disagree with that do you!. But the bottom line is ... You think our trading in the last 3 years has been good.. enough said.... your assertion there tells me everything I need to know about engaging in this kind of discussion with you.... and I see you remember my comment about your ANZAC day post being glib (which it so was)... lol.. good to see it stuck in your craw Ol Spice... been stewing over it for a couple of months hey.... pathetic.. but you chose a loser topic here.. not much of an argument you're making.. our trading's been good in your opinion... You can't seem to understand.. Hudson cost us nothing yes.. but he's taking up a list spot...a list spot we could have, for example, had a guy called Ceglar occupying.... and we traded pick 71 for Russell so maybe check and get your facts right hey? No-one on your list who you trade in is a "Free hit" as you say.. they take up a spot on your list and prevent you from using a draft pick. As I said...list spots are gold!!.. honestly you are one of the very few poster who seems to be unable to understand this.

Just read the rest of this weird post. You said something about some post I wrote around ANZAC day that has stuck in my 'craw'? You'll have to refresh my memory because I have no idea what you are on about.

The essential point remains that rookie picks, UFA picks and late picks are always gambits and you'll sleep easier knowing that most clubs don't get rolled gold with those sort of picks. You expect to turnover gold at every rock but that's not how it happens as any dullard could tell you.

 

[SuperSub17]

Paragraphs please

 

[DaVe86]

Paragraphs please

Agreed, i can't read posts with no paragraphs and just a heap of text

 

[POKsPies252]

So Rumours are we are after Stefan Martin (how log till we find our Leigh Brown replacement ). Do u think the lions would do Keeffe + JT for Martin and their 2nd rounder? More importantly would we do it?

 

[frizzle]

So Rumours are we are after Stefan Martin (how log till we find our Leigh Brown replacement ). Do u think the lions would do Keeffe + JT for Martin and their 2nd rounder? More importantly would we do it?

What rumours? Big Footy rumours?

 

[bucksisbest]

I've not mided Stefan Martin in that s**t truck role, but would we be chasing the same player for 3 consecutive years?

We already got White for pick 44, he has lost the plot since he hurt his finger and had a kid, but I don't see the point in Matrin as I'm confident White can fill that role sufficiently when Reid comes in.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

No more recruiting to try and find the next Leigh Brown please. Think we need to work with White, develop Grundy and Witts, and hope that having Reid back into the forward line makes White a more tenable suggestion.

Leroy had Cloke and Dawes as the 1 and 2 KPF, and Presti, Brown and Reid as the KPBs. That meant he could play the genuine third tall/second ruck option. Since he quit, Dawes, Lynch and now White have all been asked to play the 2nd tall/2nd ruck role, and haven't been able to do it.

Leroy also had Davis and Did and 2010 model Swan kicking it to him, which helps you look better as a forward than the delivery White and Cloke have got this year. (not saying that's the main reason White has struggled, but it sure hasn't helped).

We can't judge whether White works or not til we see how the team works with Cloke, Reid and White.

 

[BEEG]

Why do we want Martin he will not work in our system

 

[POKsPies252]

What rumours? Big Footy rumours?

SEN (they're always right )

 

[POKsPies252]

We can't judge whether White works or not til we see how the team works with Cloke, Reid and White.

I actually think White will turn out ok once Reid comes into the lineup. His work as a second ruck has actually been pretty good and getting the 3rd defender might allow him more opportunity in front of goals. I only brought up Martin as it is rumoured we are into him.

 

[frizzle]

SEN (they're always right )

2nd only to facebook.

 

[TheWing121]

So Rumours are we are after Stefan Martin (how log till we find our Leigh Brown replacement ). Do u think the lions would do Keeffe + JT for Martin and their 2nd rounder? More importantly would we do it?

I think we would be loosing massively in that trade

 

[DaVe86]

I say forget about Martin. He is a prospect that Finey put up on SEN. There hasn't been any actual rumour linking us to him. It was just an idea Finey made up.

Ultimately, Martin would just be another Jessie White or Lynch.

Martin has prospered at Brisbane because he is playing the ruck role all by himself. He has never shown an ability to hold down a forward spot.

At Collingwood, that is what he'd become. A part time forward, part time ruck. He is not going to get 90% game time in the ruck with Witts and Grundy on the list.

As stated, I don't think we need another Leigh Brown replacement. We've tried Dawes, Lynch and White with no success.

What we need is a gun 2nd forward, which allows Reid into defence and then we can play both Grundy and Witts together.

White is not a 2nd forward, he is a 3rd.

We are hoping Darcy Moore takes this spot.

Stefan Martin would also be no better than a 3rd forward/ruckman.

Otherwise, if we can't get the 2nd fowrard, then leave Reid forward and recruit James Frawley to sure up defence.

 

[TradeDraft]

So Rumours are we are after Stefan Martin (how log till we find our Leigh Brown replacement ). Do u think the lions would do Keeffe + JT for Martin and their 2nd rounder? More importantly would we do it?

Rumors? It’s just be Collingwood BigFooty Talk.

Finey from SEN put that as Possible Trade but he would have no idea

 

[cakewalk06]

Leigh Brown role? Don't worry about that, who is going to fill the Craig Starcevich role? Or the Anthony roca role?Has about the same relevance in 2014.

Lets just find someone for, say, a jack gunston role or maybe a buddy franklin role...

 

[good4footy]

If we go anywhere near Frawley I'll be sick. He will just add to our turnovers/ poor kicking efficiency. Cost Melb the game on the weekend with his poor skills and decision making.

We would have to add another 'close your eyes and hope for the best' link to the chain- "Frawley to Toovey at half back who spots Adams alone in the cente of the ground. He in turn looks for Cloke and hits him laces out. Cloke in from 45m and the goal umpire does not move."

Better chance of winning Tattslotto.

 

[Caztheconquerer]

I know it's still early days, but I've already seen a bit of 'news' floating around about speculation of free agents landing themselves at Collingwood, so I figured I'd make the one go-to thread for all Collingwood related information.

So if you have yourself a rumour (or fact), about contract negotiations, free agents or trades then this is the place to post it!

I'll get the ball rolling and say that if Shaun Higgins were to be a Collingwood player next season then I wouldn't be opposed. Could be a class player.

Hi guys, do you think the pies could trade to a higher draft pick as Melbourne last year gave up pick 2 for Dom Tyson. Who would we need to give up to get a pick up around that mark which we could then possibly use on petrecca.

 

[TradeDraft]

If we go anywhere near Frawley I'll be sick. He will just add to our turnovers/ poor kicking efficiency. Cost Melb the game on the weekend with his poor skills and decision making.

We would have to add another 'close your eyes and hope for the best' link to the chain- "Frawley to Toovey at half back who spots Adams alone in the cente of the ground. He in turn looks for Cloke and hits him laces out. Cloke in from 45m and the goal umpire does not move."

Better chance of winning Tattslotto.

Agree - Good Stopper by not a great user of the Ball.

Frost has potential as being as good as Frawley and he is and same sort of player

 

[Snoop Dog]

Martin is a no for me. Realistically he aint leaving Lions and other clubs would give him much more surety. I was an advocate for him a few years ago but realistically unlikely now.

For me I am thinking more about who is expendable on our list and if we had to give something of value up who would it be.

Now please remember I am just putting a name up here I am not necessarily proposing it.

I think its unlikely over next 10 years Witts and Grundy will fit in same side and therefore I think one could go. We have Moore coming and in 3 years he should be able to play 2nd string ruck. In the interim Jesse White has that gig if only for the fact he is contracted for 3 years so might as well use him.

Reason I suggest giving Witts or Grundy up is to give us a shot of trading him to Sydney (who desperate for a ruckman) and get Sam Reid in exchange.

If we did that it would allow us to have Sam Reid at CHF and Ben REid at CHB. I think Ben might be important at CHB as we need a leader for that back half and realistically I think its him.

You'd then have Grundy or Witts rucking with White as a back up. Cloke and Sam Reid fwd with White as the 3rd and Reid, Frost, Keefe and Brown as defensive talls.

If not Witts or Grundy then maybe they would look at Keefe in exchange for Sam Reid but suspect they will want more. Could even look at Witts or Grundy with Keefe in exchange for Sam Reid and Tom Mitchell. Thats probably fair and suits both clubs on a 'needs basis'.

If you did do Witts then you could argue Keefe is the odd man out and flip him to the Giants who are keen for a tall. I reckon they would deal on Greene, Jaksch, Buntine, Coniglio, Tomlinson, Kennedy, Rourke, Might also throw in a Sumner, Sam Frost as a set of steak knives.

Anyway I would roll the dice on Witts. Its a big call but worth considering.

 

[TradeDraft]

Martin is a no for me. Realistically he aint leaving Lions and other clubs would give him much more surety. I was an advocate for him a few years ago but realistically unlikely now.

For me I am thinking more about who is expendable on our list and if we had to give something of value up who would it be.

Now please remember I am just putting a name up here I am not necessarily proposing it.

I think its unlikely over next 10 years Witts and Grundy will fit in same side and therefore I think one could go. We have Moore coming and in 3 years he should be able to play 2nd string ruck. In the interim Jesse White has that gig if only for the fact he is contracted for 3 years so might as well use him.

Reason I suggest giving Witts or Grundy up is to give us a shot of trading him to Sydney (who desperate for a ruckman) and get Sam Reid in exchange.

If we did that it would allow us to have Sam Reid at CHF and Ben REid at CHB. I think Ben might be important at CHB as we need a leader for that back half and realistically I think its him.

You'd then have Grundy or Witts rucking with White as a back up. Cloke and Sam Reid fwd with White as the 3rd and Reid, Frost, Keefe and Brown as defensive talls.

If not Witts or Grundy then maybe they would look at Keefe in exchange for Sam Reid but suspect they will want more. Could even look at Witts or Grundy with Keefe in exchange for Sam Reid and Tom Mitchell. Thats probably fair and suits both clubs on a 'needs basis'.

If you did do Witts then you could argue Keefe is the odd man out and flip him to the Giants who are keen for a tall. I reckon they would deal on Greene, Jaksch, Buntine, Coniglio, Tomlinson, Kennedy, Rourke, Might also throw in a Sumner, Sam Frost as a set of steak knives.

Anyway I would roll the dice on Witts. Its a big call but worth considering.

What would we have to give up to get Sam Reid.

With the 1st Round Pick being used on Moore. Can’t see a Trade Happening

 

[TradeDraft]

Could even look at Witts or Grundy with Keefe in exchange for Sam Reid and Tom Mitchell. Thats probably fair and suits both clubs on a 'needs basis'.

I would not Trade Witts or Grundy for Reid and Mitchell.

I would have Keeffe in the Trade but I would look at something else then just the 2 Rucks we have

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Don't think we can trade Witts. Then we're back in the situation where we have Grundy as our number 1 ruck - when he's playing worse than he did at the end of last year. And I don't think we should trade Grundy as then we'd have Witts or nothing.

Think we need to leave them both on for another year until it's clear who will be our long term ruckman. At the moment, it's comfortably Witts, but Brodie could well reverse that next year.

I think anyone we bring in should be of an age that will develop along with our younger players. I don't want to see us trying to "top up" the list for one or two years.

 

[MyManLynch]

Leigh Brown role? Don't worry about that, who is going to fill the Craig Starcevich role? Or the Anthony roca role?Has about the same relevance in 2014.

Lets just find someone for, say, a jack gunston role or maybe a buddy franklin role...

Not forgetting the Peter Daicos role !! 97 goals in a season from a small forward !