Fitzgibbon: ALP could split in the next 20 years

[Ned_Flanders]

No one is saying tomorrow at all.

yes you are, when there is a refusal to consider non renewal options to replace the hunter and latrobe valley

 

[Baltimore Jack]

FFS just because you agree with the science of climate change doesnt mean you are in favour of shutting down every coal mine and power plant tomorrow.

this is legitimately the absolutism that drives me nuts "you either believe in my response to climate change, or you dont think climate change is real!!!"

and going back to my original point, when that is where you start a negotiation, no sh*t no compromise is possible.

So when do you propose shutting down the Coal Mines?
What year? or is it never?

I'm starting to think you are on the far right of the ALP out there with the NSW branch

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Labor is a labourist party for workers. Not an environmental party. They hang sh*t on the Greens when they can.

They aren't an environmental party now, but they used to be eg Franklin river, Rudd's progressive climate policy, anti-nuclear policies ect.
Workers overwhelmingly want stronger climate policy, it's something like 75 to 80% .
Labor is making the mistake of targeting swinging voters who are only 2 or 3% of voters.
Modern politics is about getting your base out to vote and inspiring your base.
There's nothing inspiring about Labor , it's all about internal pollsters making the decisions now. This so called pragmatic approach is not helping to inspire voters.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Labor is a labourist party for workers. Not an environmental party. They hang sh*t on the Greens when they can.

True, but its a very wide remit i.e. all things that affect Labour not just Workplace conditions

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

yes you are, when there is a refusal to consider non renewal options to replace the hunter and latrobe valley

What refusal?
2050 zero is an insult to science, 2030 zero needs to be the aim.
You're making a good effort to argue for your party but you can't polish a turd.

 

[Kwality]

Yes that's exactly what I said....no, wait

The ALP is losing members in droves, you know that and I know that
People like Fitzgibbon are one of the main reasons why

If the base can't see why they should be nothing more than LNP lite, how do you expect the electorate to see it

There has to be a marked difference between the the parties and Fitzgibbon said, no to that

Fitzgibbon represents the views of his electorate in a party built on those views.
How can the Union movement continue to fund the ALP if it totally rejects the working man.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So when do you propose shutting down the Coal Mines?
What year? or is it never?

I'm starting to think you are on the far right of the ALP out there with the NSW branch

for now, years - we still need coal for our own needs (ignoring export) and until a viable alternative is on offer we dont have much of an option

im in favour of softening this with gas plants as an interim measure

 

[Ned_Flanders]

What refusal?
2050 zero is an insult to science, 2030 zero needs to be the aim.
You're making a good effort to argue for your party but you can't polish a turd.

so how are we replacing the hunter and latrobe valley? forget targets and agreements, name the physical assets that will replace their power generation

 

[Kwality]

What refusal?
2050 zero is an insult to science, 2030 zero needs to be the aim.
You're making a good effort to argue for your party but you can't polish a turd.

2060 according to China (as it sees coal as the answer to its electricity needs when Australians know its renewables, silly us)

 

[Kwality]

so how are we replacing the hunter and latrobe valley? forget targets and agreements, name the physical assets that will replace their power generation

Too hard. A date is the answer, leave the detail to someone else.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

so how are we replacing the hunter and latrobe valley? forget targets and agreements, name the physical assets that will replace their power generation

Why ask that when Labor are giving the thumbs up to new coal mines.
Adani was a test and Labor failed badly. There is absolutely no need for that mine, it's more expensive than renewables, it's highly automated and provides very few jobs.
The solutions are all these to phase out Hunter and Latrobe.
Move the billions of $ in coal subsidies to renewable subsidies, it's not rocket science.
We also have a things called wind and sun in Australia.

Batteries and renewables can replace coal and gas for reliable and cheap power, experts say

Business model underpinning coal and gas is collapsing, and the good news is that batteries and renewable energy can step in and keep the grid secure.

reneweconomy.com.au

Batteries and renewables can replace coal and gas for reliable and cheap power, experts say

Michael Mazengarb 29 March 2021 0
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An artist's impression of Neoen's Victorian big battery.
Wind, solar and big batteries will become the dominant providers of stable and secure electricity supplies, ably taking over the traditional role of emissions-intensive fossil fuel generators, new expert analysis has shown.
The study was commissioned by think tank The Australia Institute and undertaken by energy economist Professor Bruce Mountain and battery expert Dr Steven Percy from the Victorian Energy Policy Centre.
The study found that not only are clean energy technologies capable of providing reliable supplies of power, but that also battery technologies are set to become the dominant provider of system strength services within the energy market, displacing fossil fuelled generators from their traditional roles.
According to the analysis, batteries and demand response services were already providing more than one-third of Australia’s key frequency control services in the last quarter of 2020 while making up just 0.5 per cent of capacity within the electricity market.
“The business model underpinning coal and gas is collapsing before our eyes and the good news is that batteries and renewable energy are now able to step in and keep the grid secure,” report author Mountain said.
“Renewables already create the cheapest electricity in the market and the last leg the fossil fuel industry had to stand on was the security services they have historically provided. Now we can see that even those services are being delivered in a more reliable and affordable way by renewable energy and that trend will only accelerate in the future.”

But you already knew this.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

2060 according to China (as it sees coal as the answer to its electricity needs when Australians know its renewables, silly us)

You always avoid the question and deflect to other countries who have about 70% less per capita emissions that us.
I'm gonna have to block you mate ,you're like a broken record with nonsense arguments.
Good luck with things.

 

[Mofra]

so how are we replacing the hunter and latrobe valley? forget targets and agreements, name the physical assets that will replace their power generation

Latrobe Valley has a shovel ready off-shore wind project ready to go. The advantage being the infrastructure for transmission is all there too and they've already started transitioning away from coal power stations.

Hunter is a problem as there's nowhere near that level of alternate employment development there.

 

[ralphmalph]

Why ask that when Labor are giving the thumbs up to new coal mines.
Adani was a test and Labor failed badly.

What power did they have (or would they have had) to stop it?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

What power did they have (or would they have had) to stop it?

It was a Labor policy.
The Feds sat on the fence which was tacit approval.
Shorten and Albanese had every opportunity to say they will do all they can to stop it but they didn't.
If you can stop Tasmania making the Franklin River a dam you can stop a coal mine.
They had plenty of reasons to stop it 1/ It's uneconomic and a waste of money. 2/ Profits are going to India 3/ It's almost fully automated. 3/ It has an adverse effect on the surrounding environment 4/ It is accelerating the demise of the Barrier Reef 5/ It increases our already massive per capita climate emissions.
6/ It contributes to increased mega-fires and losses of native animal habitat .

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

so how are we replacing the hunter and latrobe valley? forget targets and agreements, name the physical assets that will replace their power generation

Do you think it's acceptable for Joel Fitzgibbon to land a high paying job as part of the coal lobby?

 

[HairyO]

having a climate policy is one thing, shutting down the coal sector is another

You realise youre arguing with people who think Lenin got the job started then Stalin got it right.

They want Labor to split so The Greens see half the ALP voters move their way. They dont want moderate parties making sensible decisions. Sit back and enjoy the ride. I dont think its worthwhile actually engaging with them. By saying we need at least some policy involving coal is enough for them to want you to die.

 

[ralphmalph]

It was a Labor policy.
The Feds sat on the fence which was tacit approval.
Shorten and Albanese had every opportunity to say they will do all they can to stop it but they didn't.
If you can stop Tasmania making the Franklin River a dam you can stop a coal mine.
They had plenty of reasons to stop it 1/ It's uneconomic and a waste of money. 2/ Profits are going to India 3/ It's almost fully automated. 3/ It has an adverse effect on the surrounding environment 4/ It is accelerating the demise of the Barrier Reef 5/ It increases our already massive per capita climate emissions.
6/ It contributes to increased mega-fires and losses of native animal habitat .

Tasmanian dams is not comparable. The area was listed as world heritage, Hawke govt passed legislation to effectively stop the dam on the basis that federal government had the power to do so to give effect to UNESCO treaty.
What equivalent treaty, Act or regulations give the feds power to stop Adani (without compensation)?
I’m not opining on the merits, just curious about the utility of a policy to oppose it absent clear power to stop it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Latrobe Valley has a shovel ready off-shore wind project ready to go. The advantage being the infrastructure for transmission is all there too and they've already started transitioning away from coal power stations.

Hunter is a problem as there's nowhere near that level of alternate employment development there.

what percentage of latrobe valleys power generation will that be able to replace?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Do you think it's acceptable for Joel Fitzgibbon to land a high paying job as part of the coal lobby?

as long as it complies with the rules, who cares. would you have an issue if he went to a solar farm?

personally i want lobbyist rules tightened up, but that also means ruling people out of NFP's and socially acceptable organizations that have a connection to a ministers past remit

 

[Kwality]

Latrobe Valley has a shovel ready off-shore wind project ready to go. The advantage being the infrastructure for transmission is all there too and they've already started transitioning away from coal power stations.

Hunter is a problem as there's nowhere near that level of alternate employment development there.

Now thats a step forward, understanding how to ensure the electricity generated can be supplied to the grid. Could be the reason renewables are cheaper (than coal) in Australia but not in China ...

 

[Crankyhawk]

Fitzgibbon represents the views of his electorate in a party built on those views.
How can the Union movement continue to fund the ALP if it totally rejects the working man.

Working man in only one industry. Nothing special about them. I mean car industry got shafted, textile got shafted, industries change. There’s no job for life, scrap subsidies unless we can demonstrate dollars spent in subsidies are repaid with more value via taxation and economic activity.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

what percentage of latrobe valleys power generation will that be able to replace?

Not sure but at least make a start. 100% eventually like is happening around the world.
Listening to Fitzgibbon's interviews this morning has made me feel ill.
He really is a disgusting coal puppet.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Now thats a step forward, understanding how to ensure the electricity generated can be supplied to the grid. Could be the reason renewables are cheaper (than coal) in Australia but not in China ...

the china issue isnt price, its volume

they are building massive renewable facilities, but the growth in their energy demands AND the replacement of old highly polluting infrastructure means they need bridging plants to minimize brownouts.

FWIW my wifes home town is one of these. they used to have smog that bad you could taste it in the air when no wind was blowing. the plant dated back to Mao. They have a new coal plant which while not ideal, is a massive improvement on the former.

 

[HairyO]

the china issue isnt price, its volume

they are building massive renewable facilities, but the growth in their energy demands AND the replacement of old highly polluting infrastructure means they need bridging plants to minimize brownouts.

FWIW my wifes home town is one of these. they used to have smog that bad you could taste it in the air when no wind was blowing. the plant dated back to Mao. They have a new coal plant which while not ideal, is a massive improvement on the former.

Oh dear. You just talked about "clean coal"...