Game Day Hawks v Pies official practice game - Thursday March 2 @ 5:10pm - UTAS

[loki04]

Does Ginners have the fitness base to play further up the field? Hopefully he does.

Hill is fair better suited to the McRae style. In both games thus far there have been occasions where he is involved in the whole length of the field. His defensive side of the game is also very good.

The player i am intrigued to see is Josh Richards.



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What we saw of Fly's gane style relies on players finishing in front of goal from chaotic play forward movement play.
I agree Hill is a good addition but to date his career is below ave for scoring, goal assist, disposals, etc and only above ave at tackles.

Ginnivan on the flipside is a 19yo who kicked 40 plus and was unlucky not to have more due to a in season interpretation change and then blatant disregard for ANY high contact he received there after.

Hill does however provide much better defensive application and speed.

 

[sr36]

Yeah there has to be an end point though, I don't get how Boxing for example is not liable but another sport which involves a ball that has done many rule changes to minimise incidents to head contact is.

A large part of the CTE lawsuits in USA is based around them doing the study knowing about it then covering it up and not informing the players. Ie they took the players choice away by not revealing the possible damage concussion can cause.

I don't understand the legal stuff and was surprised that there is an aflw case. I would have thought that there'd be big payouts for historical stuff, but had hoped that new stuff would be informed risk.

 

[loki04]

I'm aware that boxing still allows blows to the head.

I was responding to your post which suggested that boxing isn't 'liable', that it doesn't suffer lawsuits for a failure to adequately protect the head.

It is, and it does, but it tries to satisfy a duty of care in different ways.

In AFL, where blows to the head are incidental to the game, it seems reasonable that the standard of care will be higher.

The standard of care is higher in AFL already. Boxing lawsuits usually are where they are unlicensed competition with dodgy rules, or lacking the medical training to be the tending doctor, or other outside scope of the sport thing.

You can't mitigate against all incident and risk in any contact sport was my point

We are not Gealic footy where minimal contact would dictate that head contact be an unlikely outcome.

Bumping and tackling by nature exposes the head not just to the opponent but even the tackler can have head clashes, elbows, shoulders and if clumsy enough his own head into the turf.

Had Jordan met the larger opponent head on RL style and the big man ran through him being bigger and stronger then Jordan would of been open to damage.
The technique to turn your opponent in a tackle allows for moving them off balance to bring them down to stop them getting the ball away whilst minimising the chance you get Injured.
It also need to avoid in the back if coming from behind.
Another point is sometimes a stronger person will spin whilst being tackled to try break it, you use their momentum. Who's at fault tackler or the guys who was stronger and initiated the turn ?

 

[loki04]

Peter Jess. Odious individual.

The AFL is certainly taking it seriously. As a person with no experience in the area, I can only guess, but a big part of duty of care is whether the entity took adequate steps based on medical/technical knowledge at the time. That alone would make it tough for past players to be successful in an action for matters that happened way back when. It's also the key behind protecting the head now. Add to that the difficulty in "proving" CTE, etc., all makes it pretty tough.

We aren't in the US where plaintiffs seem to have a lot more success in similar matters.

The US did their initial studies decades before and were aware of the damaged caused but covered it up.

The NFL first began to review the subject formally in 1994, then NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue approved the creation of the Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) Committee with the stated goal of studying the effects of concussions and sub-concussive injury in NFL players.

Add to that the follow up in 2002 which they also tried to silence it left them culpable due to taking away the players right to make a choice to wait for it: "continue to play in the sport" with the full knowledge of the risks involved.

In 2002, Dr. Bennet Omalu exposed the NFL's best kept secret. The autopsy of Steelers legend Mike Webster revealed the first recorded CTE presence in an NFL player [10]. In 2005, Omalu's publication depicted the long-term neurodegenerative outcomes from an NFL career [11].

 

[JB1975]

You can't mitigate against all incident and risk in any contact sport was my point

As far as I understand this point, I agree with it.

But that wasn't the point I originally responded to.

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I understand your frustration. I was also raised on a diet of VFL 'hits and memories', and watching someone get a free kick because they were tackled too hard can seem rather odd.

But the game will adapt. The essence of it will remain the same. Deep breaths needed...along with a deep fund for the inevitable stream of pay outs while we all figure out what the standard of care should be.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

It’s actually remarkably simple. You said you were informed and still don’t get the seriousness of this topic. That to me says you either aren’t actually informed or you’re thick for taking this POV. Legislating actions such as JDG’s is the AFL’s way of protecting the game from individuals who make poor choices.

This might be better placed in another thread, but sideswipe what impact would there be on the league if a class action of say 500 ex players seeking $2m each in damages were successful? I assume the league would be protected from the full whack by insurance or Andrew Dillon cooking up some legal protection so this is purely out of curiosity. I mean a $1b class action against a national sports league that’s exposed to the full payout kills the sport.

I’m no lawyer, but I would imagine the AFL are only required to implement strategies to reduce risks they could reasonably be expected to be aware of at the time.

This isn’t like big tobacco knowing the dangers of smoking and suppressing them to sell more cigarettes and deliver more nicotine.

Research on concussion, post-concussive syndrome, CTE… it’s evolving now in “real time”. I don’t think a class action of footballers from the 80’s would stand a snowflake’s chance.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Add to that the follow up in 2002 which they also tried to silence it left them culpable due to taking away the players right to make a choice to wait for it: "continue to play in the sport" with the full knowledge of the risks involved.

It’s worth keeping in mind, despite the portrayal by Will Smith, that Omalu’s discoveries were far from bulletproof, and some of his methodology had more holes than Swiss cheese.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/sports/cte-bennet-omalu/

 

[loki04]

Does Ginners have the fitness base to play further up the field? Hopefully he does.

Hill is fair better suited to the McRae style. In both games thus far there have been occasions where he is involved in the whole length of the field. His defensive side of the game is also very good.

The player i am intrigued to see is Josh Richards.



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I reckon he could do rotations but not large periods up field, even last year in back half if you watch him he is getting up the ground more.

 

[loki04]

It’s worth keeping in mind, despite the portrayal by Will Smith, that Omalu’s discoveries were far from bulletproof, and some of his methodology had more holes than Swiss cheese.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/sports/cte-bennet-omalu/

Yeah thanks i will give that a read.
I wasn't just referencing the movie but it is what initially got me to do more reading on the subject when it released.

PS: Cheers for not being glib or haughty about it like some.

 

[The Phantom]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if the afl rubbed out JDG for not protecting a players head when they don’t give Ginnivan frees?

 

[martyparty]

enigma

ĭ-nĭg′mə

noun​

One that is puzzling, ambiguous, or inexplicable.

We are having an argument over the use of a word that doesn't even apply.

 

[Mark W]

Ginnivan.....

Hill does however provide much better defensive application and speed.

Agree on the speed, and Im sure bobby will rack up some spectacular run down tackles. Not sure on the application though. Havent had the chance to see him live playing for us, but Bobbys reputation is inconsistency cause he lacks a tank, runs out of petrol tickets. Gini I think tries his best to apply defensive pressure and often corrals his opponent reasonably well. OF course he never can catch them cause he is as slow as a wet week....

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Yeah thanks i will give that a read.
I wasn't just referencing the movie but it is what initially got me to do more reading on the subject when it released.

PS: Cheers for not being glib or haughty about it like some.

All good mate, I am pretty similar to you on that front.

The main thing to be suspicious of on the concussion/CTE debate is people who appear very certain of anything!

Omalu’s contribution to our understanding of CTE is probably more in raising awareness than advancing the science, but we wouldn’t be where we are now without him.

 

[Seedsfan]

After that showing no way Hill takes Ginivan spot.

Hill looked so much better playing that high half forward wing role. Granted he didn’t get huge numbers but he looked very damaging using his pace and skill to hit targets.

Ginivan plays a lot deeper, WHE is the one in danger from Hill

 

[Seedsfan]

I’m no lawyer, but I would imagine the AFL are only required to implement strategies to reduce risks they could reasonably be expected to be aware of at the time.

This isn’t like big tobacco knowing the dangers of smoking and suppressing them to sell more cigarettes and deliver more nicotine.

Research on concussion, post-concussive syndrome, CTE… it’s evolving now in “real time”. I don’t think a class action of footballers from the 80’s would stand a snowflake’s chance.

100%, that’s why the NFL got in trouble as they commissioned a study and when they didn’t like the findings they hid them. Exposing players to an unacceptable amount of risk

 

[loki04]

Wouldn’t it be ironic if the afl rubbed out JDG for not protecting a players head when they don’t give Ginnivan frees?

They should take in the footage be there for hours viewing it they let that many go.

 

[TradeDraft]

Lipinski is a blow, could be anywhere between 6 to 12 weeks with a discolated shoulder, so hopefully he just misses the minimum number of weeks....

Both Players we Traded for 2 years ago both have Shoulder Issues

 

[#23 Hill]

When are we likely to hear about the decision on Jordy?

 

[60 Yards Out]

wotta scuwullus comment!

You find that humowous, do you Centuwion?

 

[Apex36]

No idea - don't think your scenario is likely or even possible. Personal injury law is for losers. Kirby can probably help.

 

[Gaspard]

You don’t find his off-field behaviour puzzling and inexplicable

Given the hundreds of thousands of other meatheads that do these things, no.

 

[Fat Jesus]

You find that humowous, do you Centuwion?

You will find yourself in gladiatow school vewy quickly with wotten behaviouw like that.

 

[jonbe54]

You find that humowous, do you Centuwion?

Ohhhh wather!!!

 

[TradeDraft]

We won but not very Convincing

Disposal at times last Night was Terrible.

Goal Kicking was much better Hawks

Hawks Marking by themselves in there Forward Line

Some Postives out of it where:

Mitchell had a Good Game

McStay good again.

Nick Daicos was Tagger like he will be most of the Games last year but still had some Impact

 

[Fat Jesus]

Stwike him Centuwion vewy woughly.
Oh yes. Thwow him to the floow again.