Is Shoey in our best 22?

[JoeHawk]

Thought Geelong looked a little lost because they couldn't kick to shoeys opponent. Unfortunately this was previously often the case knowing that shoey would often get beaten in a one on one. Yes he's improved and matured immensely but still looks lost. Can't see him being around in 2015.

 

[GoldenHodge]

Thought Geelong looked a little lost because they couldn't kick to shoeys opponent. Unfortunately this was previously often the case knowing that shoey would often get beaten in a one on one. Yes he's improved and matured immensely but still looks lost. Can't see him being around in 2015.

Unless he wants to leave or we get someone like Frawley, he will be at our club in 2015 and probably 2016 at least. You don't just get rid of a young Backman when you got Lake and Gibson retiring soon and chuck in Spangher who doesn't play all 22 matches due to injuries and the like.

 

[cryptor]

Unless he wants to leave or we get someone like Frawley, he will be at our club in 2015 and probably 2016 at least. You don't just get rid of a young Backman when you got Lake and Gibson retiring soon and chuck in Spangher who doesn't play all 22 matches due to injuries and the like.

Spangher is 28 ain't he? Close to retirement himself.

 

[wallyt99]

Spangher is 28 ain't he? Close to retirement himself.

I'm 32 myself. Thinking about getting a walking stick.

 

[cryptor]

I'm 32 myself. Thinking about getting a walking stick.

Have you considered funeral insurance?

 

[Taskmaster]

I'm 32 myself. Thinking about getting a walking stick.

s**t mate, can you even see what you are typing???

 

[Taskmaster]

Thought Geelong looked a little lost because they couldn't kick to shoeys opponent. Unfortunately this was previously often the case knowing that shoey would often get beaten in a one on one. Yes he's improved and matured immensely but still looks lost. Can't see him being around in 2015.

So true. Hawkins, got frustrated, because he actually had to play on someone that knew what he was doing.

 

[Brishawk]

So true. Hawkins, got frustrated, because he actually had to play on someone that knew what he was doing.

Hawkins tally of three goals was equal to Hawkins second highest tally against Shoey ever. Last time Shoey played on Hawkins, Hawkins kicked 2 and Shoey was named in the best.

 

[Taskmaster]

Hawkins tally of three goals was equal to Hawkins second highest tally against Shoey ever. Last time Shoey played on Hawkins, Hawkins kicked 2 and Shoey was named in the best.

Wow!! My bad, In: Shoenmakers Out: Lake!!!

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Wow!! My bad, In: Shoenmakers Out: Lake!!!

Why?

 

[tige19]

Lake played very well against Hawkins, I would like to see how many times Hawkins had the footy directed to him as a target, is it possible to get that stat? Hawkins got a few joe the gooses which help out a lot.

 

[Brishawk]

Wow!! My bad, In: Shoenmakers Out: Lake!!!

To offer you some perspective, Shoey was 21 at the time he conceded his last bag of goals. He gets held to impossibly high standards when compared to other players. Lake has conceded as many bags of 5 goals in 2014 as Shoey did in 2014, 2013 and 2012 combined. While I can't recall every single opponent Shoey played on in 2012 at absolute worst case he conceded 2.4 goals per game (I took the top scoring goal tally from every key forward against us unless I knew specifically Shoey played on someone else). He had victories over Cloke, Kennedy, Reid, Pavlich and Petrie in that season. That is as a 21 year old KPD playing in a side with not one other single decent KPD. Show me any 21 year old KPD that doesn't get the odd bag kicked on him. The 'Shoey is a rubbish defender claims' are a complete myth. Not saying he is a star but he doesn't deserve the garbage slander he cops on this site.

 

[Taskmaster]

Why?

Just cause!

 

[PNess]

To offer you some perspective, Shoey was 21 at the time he conceded his last bag of goals. He gets held to impossibly high standards when compared to other players. Lake has conceded as many bags of 5 goals in 2014 as Shoey did in 2014, 2013 and 2012 combined. While I can't recall every single opponent Shoey played on in 2012 at absolute worst case he conceded 2.4 goals per game (I took the top scoring goal tally from every key forward against us unless I knew specifically Shoey played on someone else). He had victories over Cloke, Kennedy, Reid, Pavlich and Petrie in that season. That is as a 21 year old KPD playing in a side with not one other single decent KPD. Show me any 21 year old KPD that doesn't get the odd bag kicked on him. The 'Shoey is a rubbish defender claims' are a complete myth. Not saying he is a star but he doesn't deserve the garbage slander he cops on this site.

He's not a defender and he never will be one. I do think he can become a potent forward. Will come in for Gunston if he's rested.

 

[hawker30]

To offer you some perspective, Shoey was 21 at the time he conceded his last bag of goals. He gets held to impossibly high standards when compared to other players. Lake has conceded as many bags of 5 goals in 2014 as Shoey did in 2014, 2013 and 2012 combined. While I can't recall every single opponent Shoey played on in 2012 at absolute worst case he conceded 2.4 goals per game (I took the top scoring goal tally from every key forward against us unless I knew specifically Shoey played on someone else). He had victories over Cloke, Kennedy, Reid, Pavlich and Petrie in that season. That is as a 21 year old KPD playing in a side with not one other single decent KPD. Show me any 21 year old KPD that doesn't get the odd bag kicked on him. The 'Shoey is a rubbish defender claims' are a complete myth. Not saying he is a star but he doesn't deserve the garbage slander he cops on this site.

I agree with you if your figures are right. However, perception is what is important.

Lake is widely perceived as a better defender, and that tends to place doubt in the opposition when they intend to kick to his opponent. That slows down the speed of entry into our defensive 50, and that moment of hesitation gives our midfields chance to get back and help out. At present, Shoey does not have enough respect, so I don't believe he will be in our best 22.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

He's not a defender and he never will be one. I do think he can become a potent forward. Will come in for Gunston if he's rested.

That's simply not true, he's is a very decent defender. I agree he has potential up forward though.

 

[Brishawk]

I agree with you if your figures are right. However, perception is what is important.

Lake is widely perceived as a better defender, and that tends to place doubt in the opposition when they intend to kick to his opponent. That slows down the speed of entry into our defensive 50, and that moment of hesitation gives our midfields chance to get back and help out. At present, Shoey does not have enough respect, so I don't believe he will be in our best 22.

Given we abandoned the structure we started each if the past 4-5 games with it seems unlikely that we will play Shoey as a forward this year and they seem to want to use Spangher on different opponents than what Shoey would normally take i.e. Lake and shoey are fighting for the same place in our backline. I don't think having Lake back on his own deterred Geelong in anyway in kicking to Hawkins. I think our ability to shut down the ball movement in the second half forced them to slow play which they are not good at doing. Having too tall defenders back certainly helps as they can't just drag our only tall out of the 50 and leave a mismatch down back for us inside their 50. Not saying I wouldn't have Lake ahead of Shoey but Lake gave away two of the softest goals in history in the first half and I dare say, like any defender, Lake profited from the good work up field in the second half and made Geelong's forward entries easier to deal with. Lake did provide a lot of drive off Hawkins throughout the match though so was important even when he did leak a few goals.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

One big difference that does not get picked up in the goal conceded stats is that quite often Lake marks the ball and turns defence into attack. Schoey, like Gibbo is more a spoil first sort of defender.

I thought Lake was very good on Saturday.

 

[PottSie2]

That's simply not true, he's is a very decent defender. I agree he has potential up forward though.

He's a decent defender. But behind every one of Lake, Gibson, Spangher and Stratton.

He may be a decent forward and I'd put Grimley ahead of him, as a forward, every day of the week.

Watched Box Hill on the weekend, surely Grimley will get a game this week if we rest Gunston.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

He's a decent defender. But behind every one of Lake, Gibson, Spangher and Stratton.

He may be a decent forward and I'd put Grimley ahead of him, as a forward, every day of the week.

Watched Box Hill on the weekend, surely Grimley will get a game this week if we rest Gunston.

I wouldn't put him behind Spangher but clearly I'm in the minority around here. Did Spangher do enough on Saturday to retain his place?

 

[Taskmaster]

I wouldn't put him behind Spangher but clearly I'm in the minority around here. Did Spangher do enough on Saturday to retain his place?

Turn it up!

 

[Flukey!]

Did Spangher do enough on Saturday to retain his place?

He didn't get many touches but he played a defensive forward role on Harry Taylor in the first half and limited his influence.
Has he been dropped this year? If he has, I cant recall it. He just seems to miss when injured so I suspect he stays in.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

Turn it up!

I'll take that as a yes then. But seriously he didn't do a lot, that doesn't mean I think he should lose his place but based on the criteria Schoey is judged on the question has to be asked.

 

[Bumpswithagrin]

He didn't get many touches but he played a defensive forward role on Harry Taylor in the first half and limited his influence.

3 kicks, 3 handballs, 2 marks, 1 free against, 1 tackle and he kicked 1 behind. The only person who had lower AFL fantasy points than him was Suckers who was subbed out at half time (Suckers 18, Spang 23 and the next one up was Breust on 45). Add to this his defensive role on Taylor.

Now..... if all of the above applied to Schoey, would you say he played well and deserved to retain his place? If no, then you have to make the same judgment about Spangher.

Has he been dropped this year? If he has, I cant recall it. He just seems to miss when injured so I suspect he stays in.

I think that is correct, has missed quite a few matches due to injuries only.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

He's not a defender and he never will be one. I do think he can become a potent forward. Will come in for Gunston if he's rested.

Nah can't agree with that.

Evidence showing that he really doesn't concede many goals, but he's not a defender - but you reckon he'd be a good forward despite on only one game (v the saints) where he looked like kicking a bag.